Cheetah Speed

[Bloodstone]

I'm designing an anthro that can run as fast as a cheetah. Let's say he looks something like this:

 

http://vcl.ctrl-c.liu.se/vcl/Artists/Kenket/Swara.jpg

 

Anyhow, using one of the spreadsheets I found in the free stuff section, I figure he needs a running of +18". This gives him a normal running speed of about 35 mph or a NCM of about 71 mph, which should be just about right.

 

Now here's the tricky part that I don't know how to do yet:

 

1) I have no problem with him running at 35 mph normally, but I only want him to be able to "sprint" (using NCM) once in a while, for a short duration and with it tending to tire him out quickly. What would be the best way to buy such a limitation? I was thinking a limited number of charges with the costs END limitation would work best, but I'm just not sure, since it wouldn't apply to his normal movement, only NCM.

 

2) I was going to further limit this ability by having it so that the character can only use his NCM sprint when on all fours (though he normaly walks and runs around on two legs like a human). He can't hold anything in his hands while sprinting, so I was thinking Gestures might be appropriate. How should I represent this limitation or is it mostly a visual FX?

[BNakagawa]

Buy 18" of running with the No NCM limitation.

 

Buy +18" of running with the No NCM limitation and x2 or x3 end limitation. Use it sparingly.

 

$0.02

[Bloodstone]

So you're thinking I should buy Running twice?

 

To hit 71 mph, I need a total Running of 48". With your method I need +18" for my base and +24" for my sprint speed. so lets see:

 

Base: Running +18 " (36 active), No NCM (-1/4) = 28

Sprint: +24 " (48 active), No NCM (-1/4), Increase END x3 (-1) = 21

 

Total: 49 pts.

 

That seems very expensive to me. I could just take Running +18" without any limitations and by using it with NCM, I would hit 71 mph. This would be without any limitations and would only cost 36 pts. I guess your way I wouldn't actually suffer any penalties for an NCM movement rate, but is that worth 13 pts and all the restrictions? Or did I just totally mess up the math somewhere? Perhaps if I added in Linked or some other limitation it would be more affordable?

[Lord Liaden]

If I understand you correctly, you want the character's normal Running to expend normal END or less, but he can put on bursts of running speed that cost much more END. Is that right?

 

If that's the case my suggestion would be to buy extra inches of Running with the "No Noncombat Movement" Limitation as BNakagawa suggested, then buy the NCM as a Naked Adder with the Increased Endurance Cost Lim at the level that you want the extra Endurance to be.

[Bloodstone]

If I understand you correctly, you want the character's normal Running to expend normal END or less, but he can put on bursts of running speed that cost much more END. Is that right?

 

Bingo.

 

If that's the case my suggestion would be to buy extra inches of Running with the "No Noncombat Movement" Limitation as BNakagawa suggested,

 

okay, I'm with you so far. +18" with No NCM costs me 29 points and nets me a running speed of 35mph. This means I have 7 points to play around with to get an additional 36 mph of running when sprinting. Otherwise it really does seem like it would be better just paying for +18" of Running with no limitations and have the sprints simply be represented with NCM.

 

then buy the NCM as a Naked Adder with the Increased Endurance Cost Lim at the level that you want the extra Endurance to be.

 

I'm afraid you just lost me here. This is my third week of working with FRED and I'm not too sure what you just said or how a naked adder mechanically works...

[austenandrews]

1) Personally, I'd buy the extra Running with a Limitation "NCM costs 3xEND" (-1/4).

 

2) Gestures on the extra Running for NCM seems reasonable to me. I'd call it Gestures Throughout, which is -1/2 IIRC, but since it's only for NCM I'd reduce it to -1/4.

 

Note that when you're buying extra Running with Limitations, your normal NCM is unchanged. So technically the first +6" you get for NCM would not be limited (which makes sense; surely he can sprint upright like anybody else).

 

-AA

[Lord Liaden]

Sorry, it's easy to make assumptions about people's HERO mechanical aptitude. Let me try to spell the concept out for you:

 

There are times when it makes sense for an Advantage or an Adder for a Power to be bought separately from the ability it modifies, for example when the Advantage has different Limitations than the base ability (e.g. gauntlets that make your STR Armor Piercing: the Advantage may take an OIF Limitation but the base Characteristic doesn't). These are called Naked Advantages or Naked Adders.

 

A Naked Adder is bought as though it were a separate Power, and can have Advantages and Limitations applied to it based on the Active Points in the Adder. All Naked Advantages and Adders cost END based on their Active Points, but you can buy Reduced Endurance on the Adder.

 

In the case of the Running construct described above, you've removed the normal x2 NCM from the base Running. You could now buy an "Improved Noncombat Movement" Adder for the character's Running as a Naked Adder for the normal +5 points. This would cost an additional 1 END per Phase to use, the minimum for any Power. You can then apply the "Increased Endurance Cost" Limitation on that Adder. Let's say you wanted x10 normal Endurance for the character's Noncombat Running. That would be a -4 Limitation on the Adder, making it cost 1 Character Point and use 10 END per Phase. So, your character could now run at x2 Noncombat speed for an additional 10 END per Phase.

 

You can find out more about Naked Advantages and Adders by checking the 5E rulebook p. 157, and the online FAQ under "Naked Power Advantages." If it's still not clear please feel free to post a followup question.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by austenandrews

1) Personally, I'd buy the extra Running with a Limitation "NCM costs 3xEND" (-1/4).

 

Ah, as a Custom Limitation. That seems elegantly simple to me, but it would be a judgement call as to what level of extra END would justify that -1/4 Lim.

 

Originally posted by austenandrews

2) Gestures on the extra Running for NCM seems reasonable to me. I'd call it Gestures Throughout, which is -1/2 IIRC, but since it's only for NCM I'd reduce it to -1/4.

 

I'm afraid I don't really see why Gestures would be more appropriate for the NCM when they don't apply to the base Running, but YMMV.

 

Originally posted by austenandrews

Note that when you're buying extra Running with Limitations, your normal NCM is unchanged. So technically the first +6" you get for NCM would not be limited (which makes sense; surely he can sprint upright like anybody else).

 

-AA

 

That never occurred to me. I think that would fall under the heading of what makes "game/dramatic sense" as to whether that first 6" should have NCM or not. After all, the character already has twice the normal amount of Running just from the base Power, even accounting for a person with the base 6" running at Noncombat speed.

 

Good contribution, though, Austen.

[austenandrews]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Ah, as a Custom Limitation. That seems elegantly simple to me, but it would be a judgement call as to what level of extra END would justify that -1/4 Lim.

 

You could probably work out some concrete numbers based on how many points you save with various combinations. I'm not that industrious, so yeah, judgement call.

 

I'm afraid I don't really see why Gestures would be more appropriate for the NCM when they don't apply to the base Running, but YMMV.

 

Admittedly, in some sense you're getting more than you deserve by taking the Gestures lim. If "No NCM" is -1/4, "Limited NCM" shouldn't get you more than that. You could modify the custom Limitation above to read "NCM costs 3xEND and requires Gestures Throughout" and keep it at -1/4. In fact that's probably the more reasonable approach, numbers-balancing-wise (though there are many "official" cases where a less-limiting construct gets you a better Limitation value).

 

That never occurred to me. I think that would fall under the heading of what makes "game/dramatic sense" as to whether that first 6" should have NCM or not. After all, the character already has twice the normal amount of Running just from the base Power, even accounting for a person with the base 6" running at Noncombat speed.

 

Yeah, for ease of play I'd rule that the Limitations apply to all NCM. If the player pushed back, though, and didn't mind handling the extra bookkeeping himself, I'd probably relent on the technicality.

 

-AA

[prestidigitator]

Originally posted by austenandrews

Gestures on the extra Running for NCM seems reasonable to me. I'd call it Gestures Throughout, which is -1/2 IIRC, but since it's only for NCM I'd reduce it to -1/4.

I wouldn't apply this to your whole Running, nor would I construct a naked adder for the Noncombat Multiple. I would just consider the Noncombat Multiple an already present (Everyman) 5-point adder on your Running. That means you could take Limitations on it, and get the points that make up the difference. Use full Limitation values, but only apply them to the 5-point Noncombat Multiple, rather than your whole Running (it doesn't limit your combat movement, after all).

 

Incidentally, being able to run at 60-70mph is going to be expensive. The cheapest would just be to buy a bigger Noncombat Multiple, and no extra combat velocity at all, but it doesn't sound like this is what you want. If you are really going for cheetah running, in fact, I'm not even sure you want to use noncombat velocity: cheetah's use their sprinting for running down prey, and are pretty good at scoring a hit when they catch up. They probably aren't doing a Move Through at 0 OCV. Just buy the Running to use a buttload of End, and buy yourself some extra End (maybe even an End Reserve, but that depends on your concept).

[Elysea]

I'm at work, so I can't do all the math to illustrate my idea or figure out of it's feasible, but: why not buy a Movement Multipower?

 

Slot #1: 18" Running, No NCM

Slot #2: 5" Running, x8 NCM (+10 pts), (x3 END)

 

Make them both ultraslots and just declare which gear your character is running in when you make your movements. Cost of the pool would be 36pts, slot one would be 3pts, and slot two would be 1pt? This may work out to be more expensive and/or my math may be off.

[pinecone]

I may be being obtuse but based on what you said "I run x but can sprint but it makes me tired" (OK maybe I paraphrase) isn't that just saying +18" running? if you want to sprint can't you just Push running? or buy up your NCM to X4 or X8 and take a lim costs X2 end to run NCM?....

[Bloodstone]

ooh, quite a few replies. Ok, one at a time:

 

Lord Laiden;

 

The naked power advantage is a bit more clear now. Thanks. The on/off switch nature of the naked advantage sounds like what I'm looking for, but I'm still not sure how to price it out yet.

 

I'm afraid I don't really see why Gestures would be more appropriate for the NCM when they don't apply to the base Running, but YMMV.

 

I figured it might be an appropiate limitation because he can't carry or catch anything in his hands or arms while running, such as the groceries, a weapon or an innocent old lady that just happens to be caugh't in the crossfire... I suppose I could drag the old woman along the ground by the scruff of her neck while doing 70, but I'm not sure what kind of damage that might do

 

austenandrews;

 

your custom limitation just might work. I'll talk to the GM. Thanks.

 

prestidigitator;

 

you lost me on the first part of your suggestion. Sorry, I'm such a noob...

 

The second part I follow a bit better though and you made me realize that what I want (to be able to run villians down while sprinting) is quite impossible while using NCM. I obviously did not understand just how big the limitations of NCM were.

 

Now that I realize that I may go with the following power structure and would appreciate any opinions on it:

 

Run: Running +18"; No NCM (-1/4). Active Cost 36 pts Real Cost 29 pts

 

Sprint: Running +24"; No NCM (-1/4), Increased END x3 (-1), Gestures Throught- Both hands (-3/4), Linked to Run (-1/4). Active Cost: 48 Real Cost 15 pts

 

Total Real Cost 44 pts

 

It's a bit more expensive then what I was origionally budgeting for, but since I get to keep my DCV/OCV, that looks like it's worth it.

 

Does that look balanced?

 

Also, with the two powers linked do I wind up paying the increased END for the total movement (48") or just for the additional +24" from sprint? If it's the former then the final END cost is probably way too much for my character to pay.

 

Elsysa;

 

That might work too, but I have decided not to use NCM at all and as such it will probably cost more points then my current version. Besides, multipowers seem complex and intimidating at this stage of the game...

 

pinecone ;

 

Isn't Pushing limited to dramatic situations based on GM approval? Unless I'm mistaken, I can't do it when I want to, only when the situation warants it.

 

Ok, I think I got everyone. Thanks for all the feedback and please keep it coming. Man, I both love and hate that there are so many way to do the same thing in this system...

[Rene]

Are you able to run with your hands tied? If yes, then you don't take a Gestures Limitation. If you're only slightly restricted in what you can do with your hands while Running, then maybe Side Effects (or something similar) would be a more appropriate Limitation.

 

 

Originally posted by Bloodstone

It's a bit more expensive then what I was origionally budgeting for, but since I get to keep my DCV/OCV, that looks like it's worth it.

 

Being able to run 48" in Combat Movement is a huge tactical advantage. Not to be underestimated. NCM adders are so cheap because they give you a 0 OCV, they're almost strictly reserved for travel.

 

 

Originally posted by Bloodstone

Also, with the two powers linked do I wind up paying the increased END for the total movement (48") or just for the additional +24" from sprint? If it's the former then the final END cost is probably way too much for my character to pay.

 

No, the END multiplier applies only to the portion of the power actually reduced by the Limitation. The unmodified part costs normal END.

[starblaze]

I don't really have any input right now but I just wanted to say:

Cool Picture.

[Bloodstone]

Are you able to run with your hands tied?

 

Bipedal his top speed is 24"/35mph. To use his full out 48"/71 mph sprint speed he needs to be able to use all four limbs at the same time.

 

Being able to run 48" in Combat Movement is a huge tactical advantage. Not to be underestimated. NCM adders are so cheap because they give you a 0 OCV, they're almost strictly reserved for travel.

 

yes, I realize that now. I'm just glad it was pointed out to me before I started playing.

 

No, the END multiplier applies only to the portion of the power actually reduced by the Limitation. The unmodified part costs normal END.

 

excellent, then that is pretty much exactly what I wanted.

 

I don't really have any input right now but I just wanted to say:

Cool Picture.

 

I agree. I wish I could take credit for it, but it's just something I found while roaming the web...

[prestidigitator]

Originally posted by Bloodstone

you lost me on the first part of your suggestion. Sorry, I'm such a noob...

Don't worry about it. Everyman skills/powers are something that every character gets without spending any points ("for free"). I would consider that every character has:

 

5" Running [10 active]

+1 Non-combat Multiple for Running (making it x2) [5 active]

 

as an Everyman power. Thus, you could apply Limitations to the non-combat multiple adder. Say you place a total of -1 in Limitations to it. Then it should have a real cost of 2, and since the character essentially loses 3 real points of value, he then gets 3 points refunded (negative cost, just like selling back your Everyman Skills or reducing your Characteristics).

 

The second part I follow a bit better though and you made me realize that what I want (to be able to run villians down while sprinting) is quite impossible while using NCM. I obviously did not understand just how big the limitations of NCM were.

 

Now that I realize that I may go with the following power structure and would appreciate any opinions on it:

 

Run: Running +18"; No NCM (-1/4). Active Cost 36 pts Real Cost 29 pts

 

Sprint: Running +24"; No NCM (-1/4), Increased END x3 (-1), Gestures Throught- Both hands (-3/4), Linked to Run (-1/4). Active Cost: 48 Real Cost 15 pts

 

Total Real Cost 44 pts

...

Does that look balanced?

Yes. It looks good. I would say drop the Linked though, because the character is always going to apply the less limited Running first anyway, so this isn't really a disadvantage.

 

Bipedal his top speed is 24"/35mph. To use his full out 48"/71 mph sprint speed he needs to be able to use all four limbs at the same time.

I would say the same thing about the Gestures as I would about the NCM. You want to use an attack while you are moving, right? You will either have to

1. drop the extra movement the Phase you wish to make an attack, or
2. not take Gestures. You could instead apply a lesser Limitation such as "Must Run on All Fours" (which I would say is probably a -1/4), to simulate that you cannot be holding anything while sprinting. Maybe also, "Cannot Perform Any Maneuvers Except Move Through While Sprinting" (which is probably ar -1/2, since it keeps you from doing a normal attack if you half move with your extra speed, and keeps you from doing a Move By as well).

[dugfromthearth]

cheetahs

 

just some info on cheetahs:

 

"Although fast, the cheetah cannot run at full speed for long distances (100 yards is about the limit) because it may overheat."

 

http://www.awf.org/wildlives/65

 

"From a speed of 32km an hour a cheetah is able to stop in one single stride. The two front feet strike the ground more or less simultaneously and thereafter the hindfeet strikes the ground and all four feet are placed far to the front and the toes are spread."

 

http://www.dewildt.org.za/cheetah/