Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

[Markdoc]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

Them too.

 

One of the eddas has one of the greatest quotes ever, which runs briefly like this:

 

Vikings are attacking a house. One viking goes up to the door and gets an axe to the face for his trouble. He returns to his companions and is asked "Is [our target] home?" His reply?

 

"That I cannot say, but his axe sure is."

 

That's from one of the sagas (specifically, Thorgrim the Norwegian's death from Njal's saga), not the Eddas, which are pretty thin on quotable quotes: the Eddas are pretty short and mostly consist of rather odd poetry and advice for skalds. The sagas, on the other hand are full of quotable quotes. I like the one you gave here and I also like Atli's last words in a similar situation. In Grettis saga, Þorbjörn knocks on the door at Atli's farm. When Atli opens the door, Þorbjörn runs him through. Atli looks down, says, "Broad-bladed spears are in fashion these days," and dies.

 

Going to the door of the house was clearly pretty dang dangerous back then

 

cheers, Mark

[Susano]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

That's from one of the sagas (specifically' date=' Thorgrim the Norwegian's death from Njal's saga), not the Eddas, which are pretty thin on quotable quotes: the Eddas are pretty short and mostly consist of rather odd poetry and advice for skalds. The sagas, on the other hand are full of quotable quotes. I like the one you gave here and I also like Atli's last words in a similar situation. In Grettis saga, Þorbjörn knocks on the door at Atli's farm. When Atli opens the door, Þorbjörn runs him through. Atli looks down, says, "[i']Broad-bladed spears are in fashion these days[/i]," and dies.

 

Going to the door of the house was clearly pretty dang dangerous back then

 

My mistake. I've confused edda and saga.

[RexMundi]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

At least you didn't go knocking on a vikings Door to confirm Edda or Saga.......

 

~Rex

[Curufea]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

Yeah I've used that a couple of times. I suppose I just want something like an Unabridged Bullfinch's Mythology, For the Entire Worlds Folklore.

 

~Rex

 

You've got the makings of a great librarian there

Sounds like a huge project - possibly some literature thesis has been done on this?

[RexMundi]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

I don't think there's been a collective work as good on folklore and mythology as Bullfinch's work ......the collected you can see the scope of on Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulfinch%27s_Mythology

 

Need MORE things like that.....Still you can peruse the Age of Fables part here online: http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/bulf/

 

~Rex.....Ah that old Library Science stuff....really should stuck with it instead of listening to the _Girl_ and sticking with Football and Construction....*sigh* Ah the good old Young and Stupid and easily distracted days, heh......

[Markdoc]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

My mistake. I've confused edda and saga.

 

Yeah, lots of people do. It causes me geek rage

 

Basically if it's about vikings being mean to each other, it's almost certainly from a saga.

If it's about Odin, some of the other Norse gods, or weird rules for poetry, it's likely the Eddas.

If it's tales about old Danish kings or coherent stories about Norse gods, it's likely Saxo

 

 

cheers, Mark

[Vondy]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

Yeah, lots of people do. It causes me geek rage

 

Basically if it's about vikings being mean to each other, it's almost certainly from a saga.

If it's about Odin, some of the other Norse gods, or weird rules for poetry, it's likely the Eddas.

If it's tales about old Danish kings or coherent stories about Norse gods, it's likely Saxo

 

 

cheers, Mark

 

I was thinking of the Eddas, but like the Sagas, too. Well, let me clarify that: I enjoyed reading the mythological bits of the Edda's when I was younger. The poetry rules... not so much.

[RexMundi]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

Heh, it may be better in it's native language, but when it boils down to it, some languages Always sound bad.

 

~Rex

[Susano]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

Heh, it may be better in it's native language, but when it boils down to it, some languages Always sound bad.

 

~Rex

 

Klingon for example.

[RexMundi]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

Klingon? Still sounds better then Arabic, heh.....

 

~Rex

[Steve]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

If one wants to compare Pulp Fantasy to High Fantasy, the main difference (to me) would be the visceral nature of Pulp Fantasy versus the mythic nature of High Fantasy.

 

High Fantasy has massive armies of Good (Yay!) assailing massive armies of Evil (Boo!), or watching a destined Great Hero grow into their full potential.

 

Pulp Fantasy is a lone Hero (with maybe a few companions) hacking apart the Evil Sorceror, his conjured beasties and human guards, raiding his treasure vault of coin while rescuing a buxom maiden that the Evil Sorceror was likely going to do unmentionable things to, then riding off into the sunset towards the next adventure.

[Susano]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

If one wants to compare Pulp Fantasy to High Fantasy, the main difference (to me) would be the visceral nature of Pulp Fantasy versus the mythic nature of High Fantasy.

 

High Fantasy has massive armies of Good (Yay!) assailing massive armies of Evil (Boo!), or watching a destined Great Hero grow into their full potential.

 

Pulp Fantasy is a lone Hero (with maybe a few companions) hacking apart the Evil Sorceror, his conjured beasties and human guards, raiding his treasure vault of coin while rescuing a buxom maiden that the Evil Sorceror was likely going to do unmentionable things to, then riding off into the sunset towards the next adventure.

 

And neither of these are an inherently bad way to tell a story.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

If one wants to compare Pulp Fantasy to High Fantasy, the main difference (to me) would be the visceral nature of Pulp Fantasy versus the mythic nature of High Fantasy.

 

High Fantasy has massive armies of Good (Yay!) assailing massive armies of Evil (Boo!), or watching a destined Great Hero grow into their full potential.

 

Pulp Fantasy is a lone Hero (with maybe a few companions) hacking apart the Evil Sorceror, his conjured beasties and human guards, raiding his treasure vault of coin while rescuing a buxom maiden that the Evil Sorceror was likely going to do unmentionable things to, then riding off into the sunset towards the next adventure.

I'm not sure that quite cuts to the heart of it. After all, both high and pulp fantasy tend to have fairly clearly defined good and bad guys. Both can feature the clash of massive armies or the interaction of only a few main characters. And in both cases, the main characters tend to be somewhat larger than life.

 

That said, here are my two cents' worth of opinion.

 

-- One, I think there's a difference in how the respective characters are 'larger than life'. Namely, high fantasy characters tend to have actual larger-than-life virtues and flaws where pulp characters are more ordinary, relatable folks with larger-than-life capabilities. In high fantasy, a swordsman with a drinking problem is a flawed figure who's practically guaranteed to either find redemption (either by swearing off alcohol for good or else through a heroic death scene) or else come to a tragic end. In the pulps, he's just another human being -- and probably a proper badass with a blade when he's actually sober (and/or possibly when drunk; it depends on how serious you want to be here ).

 

-- And two, high fantasy tends to go straight for the Big One. It seems that there's always this one thing that needs to be accomplished that drives the entire plot -- often the defeat of the setting's ultimate evil, though it could as easily be something as the quest for a Grail-equivalent --, and the heroes will be ultimately judged by how they measure up in pursuit of The One True Task. Pulp fantasy tends not to have that, at least not to anywhere near the same extent. Pulp heroes take their adventures as they find them; they may have longer-lasting interests, possibly even including the final defeat of some hated arch-nemesis (never mind that that trick never works ), and some of them may last long enough to eventually actually consider retirement...but it won't usually be just because That One Plotline is over and there's nothing left for them to do. Because there always is.

 

Make sense, or am I just rambling?

[greenbriar]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

Deadliest Warrior had a show that would fit a pulp setting. Tonight they did Jesse James gang vs Al Capones mob. (Jesse kicked A)

[RexMundi]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

Hmm....I would have picked the James Gang for that as well. I did real well on Picks last year. Only missed two.

 

~Rex

[DusterBoy]

Re: Fantasy Hero vs Pulp Hero

 

I'm not sure that quite cuts to the heart of it. After all, both high and pulp fantasy tend to have fairly clearly defined good and bad guys. Both can feature the clash of massive armies or the interaction of only a few main characters. And in both cases, the main characters tend to be somewhat larger than life.

 

That said, here are my two cents' worth of opinion.

 

-- One, I think there's a difference in how the respective characters are 'larger than life'. Namely, high fantasy characters tend to have actual larger-than-life virtues and flaws where pulp characters are more ordinary, relatable folks with larger-than-life capabilities. In high fantasy, a swordsman with a drinking problem is a flawed figure who's practically guaranteed to either find redemption (either by swearing off alcohol for good or else through a heroic death scene) or else come to a tragic end. In the pulps, he's just another human being -- and probably a proper badass with a blade when he's actually sober (and/or possibly when drunk; it depends on how serious you want to be here ).

 

-- And two, high fantasy tends to go straight for the Big One. It seems that there's always this one thing that needs to be accomplished that drives the entire plot -- often the defeat of the setting's ultimate evil, though it could as easily be something as the quest for a Grail-equivalent --, and the heroes will be ultimately judged by how they measure up in pursuit of The One True Task. Pulp fantasy tends not to have that, at least not to anywhere near the same extent. Pulp heroes take their adventures as they find them; they may have longer-lasting interests, possibly even including the final defeat of some hated arch-nemesis (never mind that that trick never works ), and some of them may last long enough to eventually actually consider retirement...but it won't usually be just because That One Plotline is over and there's nothing left for them to do. Because there always is.

 

Make sense, or am I just rambling?

 

Makes perfect sense to me. For example: Aragorn's story arc is basically over when he is crowned king. Conan has many adventures (both canonical and non) after he gains the crown of Aquilonia.