Animated JLA, 6th Edition

[JmOz]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

Starting on WW, now I have only placed the direct notes onto the character and come up with about 115 points, I am sure there will be nothing to hard about getting her to a real character level, hopefully will post today or tomorow...

[JmOz]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

Wonder Woman

Princess Diana

 

VAL CHA Cost Roll Notes

50 STR 40 19- HTH Damage 10d6 END [5]

23 DEX 26 14-

20 CON 10 13-

18 INT 8 13- PER Roll 13-

13 EGO 3 12-

15 PRE 5 12- PRE Attack: 3d6

8 OCV 25

8 DCV 25

3 OMCV 0

4 DMCV 3

4 SPD 20 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12

10 PD 8 10/20 PD (0/10 rPD)

10 ED 8 10/20 ED (0/10 rED)

5 REC 1

30 END 2

15 BODY 5

40 STUN 10

 

Movement Cost Meters Notes

RUNNING 0 12m/24m END [1]

SWIMMING 0 4m/20m/64m/320m END [1/2]

LEAPING 0 4m 4m forward, 2m upward

FLIGHT 40m/1280m

 

 

 

 

Characteristics Total: 199

 

Cost Powers

24 Costume: Resistant Protection (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); IIF (-1/4) - END=0

5 JL Earpiece: High Range Radio Perception (Radio Group) (12 Active Points); Non Directional (-1/2), IIF (-1/4), Sense Affected As Radio & Hearing [any other Sense] (-1/4), Audio Only (-1/4) - END=0

Magic Bracelets, all slots OIF (-1/2) - END=

10 1) +3 DCV (15 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) - END=

47 2) Reflection (60 Active Points' worth), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Any Target (+1/2) (70 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) - END=3

30 Swift as Hermes: Multipower, 30-point reserve - END=

3f 1) Effortless Flight: Flight 20m, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points) - END=0

3f 2) Underwater: Swimming +16m (4m/20m total) (x16 Noncombat), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (29 Active Points) - END=1

3f 3) Flight: Flight 10m, x32 Noncombat (30 Active Points) - END=3

1f 4) Flight 10m, MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1) (20 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2) - END=4

13 Magic Lasso: Stretching 12m, x8 Noncombat, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (33 Active Points); OAF (-1), Limited Body Parts (-1/4), Range Modifier Applies (-1/4) - END=0

1 Life Support (Safe in High Pressure) - END=0

 

Powers Total: 140

 

Cost Martial Arts

4 Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort

3 Martial Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, 10d6 +v/10, Target Falls

4 Martial Strike: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 12d6 Strike

3 Martial Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, 60 STR for holding on

2 Weapon Element: Bracers, Lasso

 

Martial Arts Total: 16

 

Cost Skills

3 KS: Greek Myths 13-

3 Animal Handler 12-

3 Combat Piloting 14-

3 Breakfall 14-

3 Charm 12-

3 Deduction 13-

4 Language: Ancient Greek (idiomatic)

3 Paramedics 13-

3 Persuasion 12-

3 KS: Ancient Greece 13-

3 KS: Greek Roman Arts 13-

4 WF: Common Martial Arts Melee Weapons, Common Melee Weapons

0 TF: Javalins

3 Teamwork 14-

3 Tactics 13-

1 Systems Operation 8-

 

Skills Total: 45

 

 

 

Value Complications

15 Psychological Complication: Code of the Amazons (Common; Strong)

10 Dependent NPC: Queen Hippoly Infrequently (Slightly Less Powerful than the PC; Group DNPC: x2 DNPCs)

10 Social Complication: Princess of Paradice Island / Exiled from Paradice Island Infrequently, Major

10 Physical Complication: Unfamiliar with man's world (Frequently; Barely Impairing)

 

Complications Points: 45

 

Base Points: 400

Experience: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

Total Character Cost: 400

[JmOz]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

So, lets talk about her for a minute, first let me say this is a first draft and I will be revising...First off I am not happy with her for a number of reasons. First I think her CV is on the low side. Second I went a bit left field with making her outfit into armor. Her intelegence, especialy in season 1 may be a bit to high as well. I also need to flush out about 30 points of disads. Also thinking about changing the DCV in her bracelets with skill levels in Range Block, Reflection and Dodge instead, this way it would be her being more active with them...

 

I might actualy drop the armor and just give her real high PD/ED, she does not bounce bullets, but she is tough in a fight.

 

Anyone elses thoughts?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

I found Wonder Woman's power level harder to peg than I first suspected.

 

JLAnimated 1st season established that she could go toe2toe with Superman (at least one pulling his punches due to 'living in a world of cardboard') and that she's actually a better trained fighter than he is. She's probably a better pure fighter than even Batman (the 'Blonde' Amazon that basically one-punched him). And though never referenced in the animated, her gifts derived from 'the Speed of Hermes' should only be 2nd to Flash and Superman. This then puts into question how she compares to Captain Marvel/Shazam* (who does make a JLU appearance) and his Strength of Hercules and Speed of Mercury (which are shown to be nearly equivalent to Kryptonian gifts). In the comics (wrong source for this discussion again, I know) she's supposed to be stronger than Heracles (Greek, not Roman).

 

She should probably have a STR higher than 50 as the introductory episodes of the JL establish her ability to slow down a space-ship using her Lasso (I suggest adding a Limitation to reflect that it can only be used for grabbing and squeezing).

 

*Speaking of Captain Marvel, I believe that if he had appeared in the 1st season of JLAnimated or any season of STAS he probably would have won a fight with Superman since the latter had not had as many fights with equal power level opponents at that point. Supes' won because of combat experience, not raw power.

[JmOz]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

She is hard to peg down, and you are right in that she should probably be stronger. Also the role her equipment plays is questionable. In a season 3 (I think) episode her powers are increased, when they are her lasso, belt, braclets and tiara all start to glow. Furthermore when she runs away from home (In secret Origin) she takes the costume it is on an alter with the earrings.

 

Now in the comics the earrings let her breath underwater and the tiera is a razorrang

 

In the lynda Carter (The true Wonder Woman, still gorgeous in her 50's) series her strength was dependend on her belt

 

 

And while I am basing the characters on the animated I think we are all mature enough to understand influencing it some by the comics, various movies, and other TV series...

[JmOz]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

As for stoping the ship, I am assuming she was using her flight to add to her strength and then pushing

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

I

*Speaking of Captain Marvel, I believe that if he had appeared in the 1st season of JLAnimated or any season of STAS he probably would have won a fight with Superman since the latter had not had as many fights with equal power level opponents at that point. Supes' won because of combat experience, not raw power.

 

I've actually felt that should work with Captain Marvel that way anyway. he doesn't get the battle skill of anyone when he transforms. That being said Supes still seemed more powerful but maybe he just knew how to use his power better.

 

Then again maybe it just makes my blood boil to think a kid who transforms into a Superman clone who should have a very different power set if he really had the powers he claimed could beat the real Superman.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

...

 

Then again maybe it just makes my blood boil to think a kid who transforms into a Superman clone who should have a very different power set if he really had the powers he claimed could beat the real Superman.

 

Well, some have argued that the modern Superman powerset (minus vision and superbreath powers) is really a Captain Marvel.

 

Example: Captain Marvel flew in the comics before Superman ever did.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

Well, some have argued that the modern Superman powerset (minus vision and superbreath powers) is really a Captain Marvel.

 

Example: Captain Marvel flew in the comics before Superman ever did.

 

 

The flying I can see with a stretch.. Otherwise nope not at all. Two things would make Captain Marvel work for me. One if he really had the powers he claimed to ( he'd be more like Thor than Superman) and if he weren't really a kid ( That's actually the big one) I wish they would just let him use the lightning with the power of Zeus, I really really hate the transformation lightning as an attack. I also wish they'd go back to the invulnerability of Achilles. His courage should be his own.

 

Actually I wish Superman and him weren't in the same universe truth to tell.

 

OK. I'm done sorry to derail.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

As for stoping the ship' date=' I am assuming she was using her flight to add to her strength and then pushing[/quote']

 

I agree. Its also hard to tell how much thrust the ship has so hard to figure anything from that.

[assault]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

Two things would make Captain Marvel work for me. One if he really had the powers he claimed to ( he'd be more like Thor than Superman) and if he weren't really a kid ( That's actually the big one) I wish they would just let him use the lightning with the power of Zeus' date=' I really really hate the transformation lightning as an attack. I also wish they'd go back to the invulnerability of Achilles. His courage should be his own.[/quote']

 

So... you don't like him and you would prefer an entirely different character. Gotcha. Try Thor.

 

The courage of Achilles bit goes back at least to early 1941, and as far as I can tell right back to the beginning.

 

Nerd.

 

 

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

So... you don't like him and you would prefer an entirely different character. Gotcha. Try Thor.

 

The courage of Achilles bit goes back at least to early 1941, and as far as I can tell right back to the beginning.

 

Nerd.

 

 

 

 

Yeah pretty much. I admit loathe all heroes who are kids and transform into adults etc. Heck I even hate Don Blake and he's an adult. I can identify with Thor much better than Blake and I hate the 60 second thing.

 

I'd certainly rather Captain Marvel live up to his PR. I first read him when DC first acquired and used him. Then it was the invulnerability of Achilles, I guess that was the exception not the rule. The power of Zeus does not make you invulnerable:rolleyes:

 

 

if they didn't keep throwing him against Supes I could just ignore him. grrr!

 

 

Proudly a nerd.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

So Billy Batson and Donald Blake are normals that transform into beings of great power.

Big deal, so is Kal-El.

The only difference is that his 'transformation' only occurs when he leaves his home world and visits a solar system with a yellow star.

His transformation is reversed when he is exposed to pieces of his home planet (Kryptonite) or radiation from his home star (red).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

So Billy Batson and Donald Blake are normals that transform into beings of great power.

Big deal, so is Kal-El.

The only difference is that his 'transformation' only occurs when he leaves his home world and visits a solar system with a yellow star.

His transformation is reversed when he is exposed to pieces of his home planet (Kryptonite) or radiation from his home star (red).

 

hmmm...Buy Supe's base form with a few skills and stats, and a huge Multiform "only under yellow sun" with a forced change back if he's exposed to kryptonite or red sun radiation. 100 points is probably generous for the base form, so that leaves 300 for the Multiform, and a 1,500 point Superman...

 

EDIT: More, actually, since we'll have a Limitation on the Multiform for the absence of full control. No wonder he seems so powerful...

[JmOz]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

So I am still unhappy with Wonder Woman, I am making some adjustments, starting with reducing her Resistant Protection but adding to her base defences (Yes the Seeker syndrome where she has inadaquite rDEF). I aslo noticed she has a useless slot in her MP which I will be dropping. This should free up a few points, but still want higher OCV/DCV and Strength...not sure where the points will come from. Some CSL's would be nice...I also just realised I don't have immortal on it...

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

So Billy Batson and Donald Blake are normals that transform into beings of great power.

Big deal, so is Kal-El.

The only difference is that his 'transformation' only occurs when he leaves his home world and visits a solar system with a yellow star.

His transformation is reversed when he is exposed to pieces of his home planet (Kryptonite) or radiation from his home star (red).

 

 

Not even vaguely the same but lets get back to Wonder Woman.

 

I actually don't know she has ANY resistant defense but I suppose a little is game wise. I would go with a few skill levels if you can manage. I think her strength is probably just fine. You could always give her a vulnerability to electricity in fact most of the Justice league you could give this too:D

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

Does she really need Reflection, Any Target, rather than just Missile Deflection?

 

As written, she can punch with her lasso. Does that make sense? Maybe she can’t do damage (only grab, disarm, etc.) with the lasso

 

Part of the problem, I suspect, is that “JLA on 400 points” practically requires one of two things. First, acceptance that they will fall in the standard power level of 400 point characters (about 12 DC’s, 20 – 25 defenses). Second, cheesy builds.

 

If you want WW to be comparable to Superman, I think you have to give her a similar multipower structure to cheese in higher STR, higher defenses, etc. as needed. The “stopping the plane”, for example, then becomes giving up extra defences, movement powers, use of the bracelets and lasso to pump the whole reserve into STR. Either that, or build Superman on 400 points without the Multipower structure and downgrade his abilities accordingly.

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

Well, this is the DCAU Justice League, yes? They should all be able to fit in 400 without too much cheesing. They're mostly not as powerful as in the comics. Except for Batman.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

...

 

If you want WW to be comparable to Superman, I think you have to give her a similar multipower structure to cheese in higher STR, higher defenses, etc. as needed. The “stopping the plane”, for example, then becomes giving up extra defences, movement powers, use of the bracelets and lasso to pump the whole reserve into STR. Either that, or build Superman on 400 points without the Multipower structure and downgrade his abilities accordingly.

 

I agree to a point. To get the characters to be recognizable at 400 points in 6e I think you have to go with 1st season (or even just 1st episode) versions. This is essentially what I did with my JLA-350 version (which are not just based on JLAnimated but old comics as well). I think another reason Superman seems so much more powerful is the discount he is being given on 'super-senses' by allowing them inside the multipower. Take away that advantage and acknowledge that WW's has other focus based gifts from the gods besides the bracelets and the lasso (never directly confirmed in the animated series but never disputed either) and she should still end up a better straight-up HTH combatant than Superman.

[assault]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

I agree to a point. To get the characters to be recognizable at 400 points in 6e I think you have to go with 1st season (or even just 1st episode) versions.

 

This is a key point to remember. Starting points give you starting level characters. If you want a more experienced/capable version of the character, you should use more points.

 

500 would work nicely.

 

Hmm... I wonder what the early Silver Age membership of the JLA would look like if you focussed entirely on their capabilities in that book, and ignored what they did in their solo stories. Batman would basically be a guy in a jet.

 

I should pull out the relevant Showcase Presents volume and take a look. Except I don't have time.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

I admire your guys' write-ups.

I have trouble working within a set number of points (unless that set is very large and still even then)

[assault]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

I have trouble working within a set number of points (unless that set is very large and still even then)

 

It's basically just a case of carefully defining what your character needs to be able to do. All else being equal, it costs fewer points to build a character with a narrower range of abilities than a broad one.

 

So, using the animated JLA as an example, you build them on the basis of the first season, and possibly even the first couple of episodes. If you were basing them on the comics, you would use the first six months or so, not the last 50 years, and you would focus strictly on actual JLA comics, rather than every story they appeared in.

 

And you don't get too carried away by hyperbole. You model the actual effects they achieve, not what it says they can do/were doing.

 

Furthermore, non-combat effects do not necessarily correspond to combat effects. Just because someone can lift Mt Rushmore doesn't mean that they have (say) 150 Strength for the purposes of doing damage.

 

And finally, you should look at how many things a character actually does at any one time. If they don't walk and chew gum at the same time, it means that you can get away with building them so that they can't!

 

All of this means you can usually build a reasonable facsimile of even a quite powerful character on quite modest points. Of course, it also means that you should use many more points when these constraints don't apply.

 

It all depends on what you want your character to be able to do, and what you want your character to be.

[JmOz]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

I agree to a point. To get the characters to be recognizable at 400 points in 6e I think you have to go with 1st season (or even just 1st episode) versions. This is essentially what I did with my JLA-350 version (which are not just based on JLAnimated but old comics as well). I think another reason Superman seems so much more powerful is the discount he is being given on 'super-senses' by allowing them inside the multipower. Take away that advantage and acknowledge that WW's has other focus based gifts from the gods besides the bracelets and the lasso (never directly confirmed in the animated series but never disputed either) and she should still end up a better straight-up HTH combatant than Superman.

 

It's not the supersenses that is doing it, what is really hurting is the global limits supes gets compared to the lack of such on WW

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

It's not the supersenses that is doing it' date=' what is really hurting is the global limits supes gets compared to the lack of such on WW[/quote']

 

I acknowledge that it is not just the supersenses but they are a huge part of the perceived discrepancy.

Your 6e version of Superman has a grand total of 5 real points dedicated to them.

My 6e version (link) has 41 real points dedicated to them. 36 real points is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Use of the 'GM Permission' route to put the senses in the Framework is just as big (or bigger) an advantage to his construction as the Unified Power and Kryptonian Limitations.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

 

It's basically just a case of carefully defining what your character needs to be able to do. All else being equal, it costs fewer points to build a character with a narrower range of abilities than a broad one.

 

Agreed totally.

 

But in my case it's more of an exercise in fitting them into my long thought ranking system

I tend to make them how I see them in my head (even if it's ONLY in my head)...and I like perks, skills, Martial Arts, and the like. I would have no problem giving Martial Arts Maneuvers to Thor...but not to Superman (Tower of Babel was seven shades of Bullpucky IMO).