How To Build: Mind Wipe

[tenebre]

need some guidance on how to build a mindwipe. I want this to be similar to Zatanna's typical mindwipe where you basically forget the last 5 minutes or whatnot. Honestly not sure where to start with this.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

If there is no chance for the target to recover without external assistance then Transform is the way to go.

[Fearghus]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

I have always built mind wipes as a mental transform. transform person into person without memories of the last 5 minutes... apply AVAD (Mental Defense, and Attack Vs. Ego rather than Body and there you have it.

[The_Patriot]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

I would build it like this for a basic one at 1d6, but feel free to increase the amount of dice:

 

Severe Transform 1d6 (Mind wipes target's mind, Healed back by Time), Attack versus Alternate Defense (Mental Defense; +0), Improved Results Group (+1/4), Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DMCV; +1/4), Time Limit (5 Minutes; +1) Cost: 37 Active Points

[tenebre]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

ah cool. I was thinking transform but wasnt sure if that made the most sense. thanks

[ned-kogar]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

The APG also expands on this topic under Psionic Surgery. It lists the removal of important facts and memories as a Major transfrom, rather than Severe... as you're not looking to remove all personality, just the last five minutes or so, this seems appropriate.

 

Ned

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

On a related note, can you use a Transform to alter a character's Complications (like giving a ruthless killer a Code Against Killing so they pose less of a danger to society)?

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

On a related note' date=' can you use a Transform to alter a character's Complications (like giving a ruthless killer a Code Against Killing so they pose less of a danger to society)?[/quote']

That's one of the examples.

[randian]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

Severe Transform 1d6 (Mind wipes target's mind, Healed back by Time), Attack versus Alternate Defense (Mental Defense; +0), Improved Results Group (+1/4), Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DMCV; +1/4), Time Limit (5 Minutes; +1) Cost: 37 Active Points

I don't see how Time Limit applies here. You want the power to remove 5 minutes of memories, not last only 5 minutes.

[The_Patriot]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

Based off what Zantanna's power is she can make a person forget five minutes of memories as they are happening now. She can't affect memories from the past from what I remember.

[randian]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

Based off what Zantanna's power is she can make a person forget five minutes of memories as they are happening now. She can't affect memories from the past from what I remember.

Yes, but I don't think that's what a Time Limited Transform does. It transforms the target for the period indicated in the table, then instantly restores them.

 

If you want to do what Zatanna does, I don't think you need Time Limit. I think you only need a simple Transform -> Target Gains Physical Complication (anterograde amnesia), with the Minor, Major, or Severe designation depending on how much future memory you're wiping out and how persistent the effect is. If you want to make the target like the main character in Memento, who couldn't retain short term memories at all, I'd call that Severe. Physical Complication: anterograde amnesia (next five minutes) is probably a Minor transform, since the time period is very short and you aren't altering the target's existing memories.

[The_Patriot]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

Yes, but I don't think that's what a Time Limited Transform does. It transforms the target for the period indicated in the table, then instantly restores them.

 

If you want to do what Zatanna does, I don't think you need Time Limit. I think you only need a simple Transform -> Target Gains Physical Complication (anterograde amnesia), with the Minor, Major, or Severe designation depending on how much future memory you're wiping out and how persistent the effect is. If you want to make the target like the main character in Memento, who couldn't retain short term memories at all, I'd call that Severe. Physical Complication: anterograde amnesia (next five minutes) is probably a Minor transform, since the time period is very short and you aren't altering the target's existing memories.

 

 

According to how Time Limit is defined you do need it. In Hero Designer Time Limit's definition is "The Time Limit Modifier allows a character to create an effect that lasts for a defined period of time." Since her power only lasts for five minutes of time for memories then it would need the Time Limit advantage. It all depends on how you would want to do it. Either build would be correct depending upon the GM. You'd be correct about it being a Minor Transform. I was thinking of how Transform used to work under prior editions.

[ned-kogar]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

According to how Time Limit is defined you do need it. In Hero Designer Time Limit's definition is "The Time Limit Modifier allows a character to create an effect that lasts for a defined period of time." Since her power only lasts for five minutes of time for memories then it would need the Time Limit advantage. It all depends on how you would want to do it. Either build would be correct depending upon the GM. You'd be correct about it being a Minor Transform. I was thinking of how Transform used to work under prior editions.

 

So Zatanna speaks backwards, starts the power and the target will not remember anything that happens in the next five minutes? I think the OP wants more of a Men In Black style power that wipes the target's memory of anything that happened in the last five minutes.

[The_Patriot]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

So Zatanna speaks backwards' date=' starts the power and the target will not remember anything that happens in the [i']next [/i]five minutes? I think the OP wants more of a Men In Black style power that wipes the target's memory of anything that happened in the last five minutes.

 

Well, I will admit that I built it wrong to begin with. It happens sometimes, so the correct build would be without the Time Limit advantage.

[feralucce]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

Yeah, the time limit here would not work. With the way time limit is written, it would heal back after the 5 minute time limit was up... HOWEVER... I can see where you are going with it, and I would use a customer modifier for the same amount and define it as "Can only effect the last five minutes of memory" because that does SEVERELY limit the ability you are building.

 

Second, you are making a mental transform. Your build is headed the right direction, but per 5th edition Pg 238 (I don't know if it changed in 6th) "To Transform a target’s Mind, a character must use a Mental Transform (one with the BOECV Advantage; see below).

 

"Based On Ego Combat Value: Transforms bought with the BOECV Advantage are referred to as Mental Transforms. Th ey must also take the Power Modifi er Works Against EGO, Not BODY (this may be an Advantage or a Limitation, depending upon which Characteristic is normally higher in the campaign; typically, it’s a +¼ Advantage). They also usually take a Limited Target Limitation (see below).

Other than working against EGO, Mental Transforms work the same as normal Transforms. Characters can use them to perform “Psionic Surgery” (the removal or alteration of memories, Mental Powers, Psychological Limitations, some Enrageds/Berserks, and the like; this may be a Cosmetic, Minor, or Major Transform depending upon the importance and point value of what’s changed or removed)."

 

Lastly... 1d6 of transform would only work against an ego of 3. Transforms have to achieve twice the target characteristic effected before the transform is complete. So in this instance, I would recommend 7d6 with the standard effect advantage (+0 advantage) to guarantee an effect of 21 before power defense. This would ensure that an average person would succumb 100% of the time. Though, she bested batman once with this power... So you may want more dice and eschew the standard effect rule since page 104 states "If a character applies the Standard Effect Rule to a power, he cannot switch back and forth between the “standard” effect and the rolled eff ect. He can only use it as a Standard Effect."

[dmjalund]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

BOECV is now subsumed into AVAD

[feralucce]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

cool... just don't have the money to rebuy all the books... the rest, however stands

[prestidigitator]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

BOECV is now subsumed into AVAD

...and Alternate Combat Value.

[The_Patriot]

Re: How To Build: Mind Wipe

 

Yeah, the time limit here would not work. With the way time limit is written, it would heal back after the 5 minute time limit was up... HOWEVER... I can see where you are going with it, and I would use a customer modifier for the same amount and define it as "Can only effect the last five minutes of memory" because that does SEVERELY limit the ability you are building.

 

Second, you are making a mental transform. Your build is headed the right direction, but per 5th edition Pg 238 (I don't know if it changed in 6th) "To Transform a target’s Mind, a character must use a Mental Transform (one with the BOECV Advantage; see below).

 

"Based On Ego Combat Value: Transforms bought with the BOECV Advantage are referred to as Mental Transforms. Th ey must also take the Power Modifi er Works Against EGO, Not BODY (this may be an Advantage or a Limitation, depending upon which Characteristic is normally higher in the campaign; typically, it’s a +¼ Advantage). They also usually take a Limited Target Limitation (see below).

Other than working against EGO, Mental Transforms work the same as normal Transforms. Characters can use them to perform “Psionic Surgery” (the removal or alteration of memories, Mental Powers, Psychological Limitations, some Enrageds/Berserks, and the like; this may be a Cosmetic, Minor, or Major Transform depending upon the importance and point value of what’s changed or removed)."

 

Lastly... 1d6 of transform would only work against an ego of 3. Transforms have to achieve twice the target characteristic effected before the transform is complete. So in this instance, I would recommend 7d6 with the standard effect advantage (+0 advantage) to guarantee an effect of 21 before power defense. This would ensure that an average person would succumb 100% of the time. Though, she bested batman once with this power... So you may want more dice and eschew the standard effect rule since page 104 states "If a character applies the Standard Effect Rule to a power, he cannot switch back and forth between the “standard” effect and the rolled eff ect. He can only use it as a Standard Effect."

 

Yeah, a custom modifier would work for this. I used AVAD and ACV which is the way 6E handled BOECV. I only built it with 1d6 to show how much a single die would cost and to let him scale it up.