Swiss Army Machine Gun

[BobGreenwade]

Many years ago, when David Letterman's show was on in the daytime, his staff brought out an interesting gag: a Swiss Army Machine Gun. Similar in principle to a Swiss Army Knife, this supposed "newly-developed weapon" shot rapid fire knives, forks, and other utensils at the enemy.

 

I've spent the many years since then trying to figure out how to write this up in Hero. Each projectile would be something slightly different in Hero terms -- a spoon would be a Blast, then an Armor Piercing RKA for a steak knife, then an RKA with Reduced Penetration for a fork, then a Penetrating Blast for the corkscrew, and so forth.

 

Besides that version, done for humorous value, it could be a more serious weapon that shoots bullets, though each bullet is something different. For example, maybe the first bullet out is a normal bullet, then an armor-piercer, then an exploding shell, then another normal one, then a tracer, then an exploder, then a frangible, then a rubber bullet, and so forth.

 

The effect, in game terms, is that the weapon fires Autofire, but each individual round is something different. How would you go about making this? Is it even possible to do in a way that's book-legal?

[Gary]

Re: Swiss Army Machine Gun

 

This type of attack was made for my custom Advantage.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/39488-New-Advantage-Rate-of-Fire

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Swiss Army Machine Gun

 

Here is an arguably* book legal method (it was a hotly debated thread) I used to build a similar effect for a revolver loaded with different rounds.

It shouldn't be too hard to add Autofire to the mix.

 

Here's the latest cleaned up version:

 

27 6 Guns in 1 (Colt Peacemaker & Various Ammo): Multipower, 37-point reserve, all slots 8 clips of 6 Charges (+0), Limited Power Number of different ammo types in clips (speed loaders) are normally set before combat. Takes 1/2 phase to change ammo distribution of clips using Fast Draw. (+0) (37 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1), Limited Power x6 number of items is only to allow use of Rapid Fire with different ammo slots in combination with 6 Guns in 1 (It's like he's using 6 different guns at one time! part 1 & 2). (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Limited Power All slots can be Missle Deflected (even Explosive and Sparkler AOE slots which can't take Beam Limitation) (-1/4), Cannot Be Used With Multiple-Power Attacks (-1/4) [Notes: (x6 number of items) <--- {This accounts for 15 of the 27 Real Points above} Number of rounds of each slot type for each clip must be defined at beginning of adventure.] - END=

1u 1) Normal Bullets: RKA 2d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (37 Active Points) - END=0

1u 2) Variable SFX Bullets: RKA 2d6-1, Variable Special Effects (Limited Group of SFX; Cold Iron, Silver, Holy, etc...; +1/4), +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (37 Active Points) - END=0

1u 3) Hollow Point Bullets: RKA 2d6-1, +2 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/2) (37 Active Points) - END=0

1u 4) Armor Piercing Bullets: RKA 2d6-1, Armor Piercing (+1/2) (37 Active Points) - END=0

1u 5) Penetrating Bullets: RKA 1d6, +2 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/2), Penetrating (x2; +1) (37 Active Points) - END=0

1u 6) Rubber Bullets: EB 7d6+1 (37 Active Points); Limited Range (-1/4) - END=0

1u 7) Explosive Bullets: RKA 2d6-1, Explosion (+1/2) (37 Active Points) - END=0

1u 8) Sparkler Bullets: Sight and Hearing Groups Flash 4d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (37 Active Points) - END=0

1u 9) Expanding Foam Bullets: Entangle 2d6, 3 DEF (Larger Wall (+1"), Stops A Given Sense Group Sight Group) (37 Active Points) - END=0

- END=

 

5 6 Guns in 1 (Instead of 6 guns): Invisible Power Effects, SFX Only (Fully Invisible; +1/2) for up to 15 Active Points of (x6 number of items, 15 active points) on 6 Guns in 1 (Colt Peacemaker & Various Ammo), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (10 Active Points); OAF (-1) - END=0

- END=

 

3 6 Guns in 1 (It's like he's using 6 different guns at one time! part 1): Extra Limbs (6), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) (10 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (Armor Piercing Bullets; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4), Limited Power Only to allow use x6 number of items and Rapid Fire with different ammo slots in combination with 6 Guns in 1 (It's like he's using 6 different guns at one time! part 1 & 2). (-1/2) - END=0

 

3 6 Guns in 1 (It's like he's using 6 different guns at one time! part 2): Penalty Skill Levels: +3 vs. Offhand Penalty with Colt Peacemaker Multiple Item (6) Multipowers with All Attacks (9 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (6 Guns in 1 (Instead of 6 guns); -1/2), Limited Power Only to allow use x6 number of items and Rapid Fire with different ammo slots in combination with 6 Guns in 1 (It's like he's using 6 different guns at one time! part 1 & 2). (-1/2) [Notes: Allows any remaining multipower 'slot' or bullet from an existing clip to be used first in any phase at no penalty. Use of Rapid Fire still imposes standard penalties for multiple shots fired. ] - END=

[Sean Waters]

Re: Swiss Army Machine Gun

 

I'm not sure that works under 6e as you can not multiple attack with a framework unless you have enough points in the pool to run all the slots you are using simultaneously (6.2.399)

 

As far as i can work out, the only way to do this is to EITHER:

 

1. Buy the attacks separately and then use MULTIPLE ATTACK or COMBINED ATTACK to use them together.

 

2. A GM might allow you to build an attack with variable sfx/variable advantage and chance the advantage or sfx between shots in a multiple or combined attack. I suspect that would not be legal, but I can't see anything specifically saying it is.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Swiss Army Machine Gun

 

....

1. Buy the attacks separately and then use MULTIPLE ATTACK or COMBINED ATTACK to use them together.

...

 

This is exactly what my build is doing by way of the equipment doubling rules.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Swiss Army Machine Gun

 

This is exactly what my build is doing by way of the equipment doubling rules.

 

Right - see what you are doing

 

I probably wouldn't have a problem with that, although it 'feels' wrong, simply because of the necessary convolution - there has to be an easier way.

 

I wouldn't have a problem for this reason: I'd be perfectly happy to let you load your clips in whatever order of ammo you liked. You couldn't change the order without changing clips, or emptying and re-filling a clip, but I can't see what the objection to that would be. I mean, yes you are able to hit an opponent with several different attack types and find out which is most effective BUT you then have to change clips to take advantage of that (and if all the shots are hitting simultaneously, or nearly, it may not be obvious which WAS the most effective).

 

The only problem is that it contravenes the rules in 6.2.399 and 6.2.400, but maybe this was simply unforeseen. It doesn't seem to me that if gives anything but a balanced approach - perhaps some advantage, perhaps some penalty, but nothing disproportionate.

 

I note that your build allows for a half phase action to change the ammo distribution of a clip: I might have a problem with that: either you have a clip you have prepared that you can swap out, or you have to re-load a clip - which will take much longer (of course you could re-load an individual bullet, but I'm not sure that would accomplish the effect we are looking for).

 

I'd also have some issue with some of the limitations (eg some of the slots can already be missile deflected, so I don't think that can be a limitation on the pool, you can't MPA with a MP anyway and I'm not sure if this feels like a real weapon) - butt hat is just arguing about the price rather than the principle.

 

If it were to be bought as a machine gun, I'd want Autofire on each slot, or the pool.

 

I'd only be willing to do this with clips though - not a 'straight' MP, because I can see how that would be too much of an advantage - but with pre-loaded clips, I think it all balances nicely, and makes for a much simpler build.

 

The counter-argument to all this is that you get a big price discount for a framework anyway and you shouldn't be looking for a way round the rules: it is the tension between 'what makes apparent sense' and 'why the rule is there: that is one for the conscience of the individual (and the will of the GM).

[Ice9]

Re: Swiss Army Machine Gun

 

Personally, I would just call this an advantage/limitation, depending on how exactly it worked:

* Each shot is random, you have no idea what it will be until you fire it: -0 to -1/2, depending on what the possibilities are.

* You have to select what the shots will be before firing, each must be different: +0 (I see this as a wash; you get more variety against unknown foes, but you get less control against known foes).

* You have to select what the shots will be before firing: +1/4 (This is an advantage, but not a huge one)

* You can pick each shot as it's fired, based on what the previous shot did: +1/2 or more.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Swiss Army Machine Gun

 

I would just use Autofire; Variable Advantage; Variable SFX; and if the GM really feels it's needed: "Each Shot Is Randomly Determined, Not All Are The Same For Each Volley" for either +1/4 or +0. Probably +0.

[Greywind]

Re: Swiss Army Machine Gun

 

Couldn't you just take the Blue Rajah as a follower?

[pinecone]

Re: Swiss Army Machine Gun

 

Many years ago, when David Letterman's show was on in the daytime, his staff brought out an interesting gag: a Swiss Army Machine Gun. Similar in principle to a Swiss Army Knife, this supposed "newly-developed weapon" shot rapid fire knives, forks, and other utensils at the enemy.

 

I've spent the many years since then trying to figure out how to write this up in Hero. Each projectile would be something slightly different in Hero terms -- a spoon would be a Blast, then an Armor Piercing RKA for a steak knife, then an RKA with Reduced Penetration for a fork, then a Penetrating Blast for the corkscrew, and so forth.

 

Besides that version, done for humorous value, it could be a more serious weapon that shoots bullets, though each bullet is something different. For example, maybe the first bullet out is a normal bullet, then an armor-piercer, then an exploding shell, then another normal one, then a tracer, then an exploder, then a frangible, then a rubber bullet, and so forth.

 

The effect, in game terms, is that the weapon fires Autofire, but each individual round is something different. How would you go about making this? Is it even possible to do in a way that's book-legal?

 

I'm not sure I understand...are you talking about a Muli-power attack? If so thats a doable build, but it would be expensive...

 

RKA 1+1 D6 OIF: Knives of opertunity, E-Atk 4D6 OIF: Blunt objects of op (spoons for example....) and so on you payed full cost so you can use them "all at once" with impunity....