5th edition Hand Killing Attack Question

[Tech]

My example below is my understanding of a HKA in 5th edition:

 

Pizza Face has a 1d6 HKA with a 30 Str, for a total of 2d6 HKA. Deciding his animal foe is going to eat him alive, he pushes the HKA for 10 extra End, giving him a 1 1/2d6 HKA (3d6+1 HKA with Str added in).

 

Is this correct?

 

Also, using the 1d6 HKA example above (2d6 with Str added in), if Pizza Face does a haymaker HKA (without pushing it), would it jump to 3d6+1 HKA or it is maxed out at 2d6 HKA? My understanding is since Haymaker is a maneuver, it should increase the damage done.

 

Let me know if I'm correct or in error. If I'm in error, please give me the correct answer. Thanks all.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: 5th edition Hand Killing Attack Question

 

I think this confusion is one of the reasons they didn't stick to the 2x max on KA's in 6E (though the "Real Weapon" limitation still enforces this, IIRC.)

 

If you buy a 1d6 HKA, the max is 2d6 no matter what. IE, you can push, haymaker, offensive strike... nothing can boost it over the 2d6. The only exception to this is if you adjust the base attack - because then the base is higher thus the max is higher.

 

However, this is partially due to another confusing factoid: Pushing an HKA is impossible; you push your Strength. Now, a Ranged KA can be pushed, but again you can't get it over the 2x base maximum.

 

As I recall, all of this really made HtH damage classes kind of pointless for smaller KA's.

 

(I could be wrong on this but am pretty sure this is how it works "RAW.")

 

Now, a nice way around this is buying "+x DC" as a Talent - something like "Deadly Blow" or "Precision Strike" or "Sneak Attack" that confers extra damage classes to the base attack, rather than maneuvers or pushing that add on top of the base KA up to the maximum.

[Tech]

Re: 5th edition Hand Killing Attack Question

 

I think this confusion is one of the reasons they didn't stick to the 2x max on KA's in 6E (though the "Real Weapon" limitation still enforces this, IIRC.)

 

If you buy a 1d6 HKA, the max is 2d6 no matter what. IE, you can push, haymaker, offensive strike... nothing can boost it over the 2d6. The only exception to this is if you adjust the base attack - because then the base is higher thus the max is higher.

 

However, this is partially due to another confusing factoid: Pushing an HKA is impossible; you push your Strength. Now, a Ranged KA can be pushed, but again you can't get it over the 2x base maximum.

 

As I recall, all of this really made HtH damage classes kind of pointless for smaller KA's.

 

(I could be wrong on this but am pretty sure this is how it works "RAW.")

 

Now, a nice way around this is buying "+x DC" as a Talent - something like "Deadly Blow" or "Precision Strike" or "Sneak Attack" that confers extra damage classes to the base attack, rather than maneuvers or pushing that add on top of the base KA up to the maximum.

 

Can you tell me where this rule is, so I can examine it? To my knowledge, any power can be pushed. Period. Otherwise, it leads to arbitrary ruling which is essentially 'it's that way just because it is'. Thanks for your reply and I look forward to seeing the next.

[Tech]

Re: 5th edition Hand Killing Attack Question

 

By the way, Kraven Kor, how does it work in 6e?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: 5th edition Hand Killing Attack Question

 

Can you tell me where this rule is' date=' so I can examine it? To my knowledge, any power can be pushed. Period. Otherwise, it leads to arbitrary ruling which is essentially 'it's that way just because it is'. Thanks for your reply and I look forward to seeing the next.[/quote']

 

 

If the HKA in question is a weapon built as a focus with 0 END then it can't be pushed. But you are correct. The base HKA power can be pushed like any other as a default.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: 5th edition Hand Killing Attack Question

 

If the HKA in question is a weapon built as a focus with 0 END then it can't be pushed. But you are correct. The base HKA power can be pushed like any other as a default.

 

And as I said I could be wrong. "Has happened before, 'twill happen again."

 

But I know that in Hero Designer 5, however you buy a HKA, the maximum damage from STR is double the base damage classes. Focus, 0 END, Real Weapon, or none of the above. And I know that FREd had a bit on HKA's about how you can't exceed double the base HKA using HTH damage classes, either - or, at least, very strongly remember but can't be arsed to look it up right now - which we got around in our FH games with "Deadly Blow" or similar talents.

[Sean Waters]

Re: 5th edition Hand Killing Attack Question

 

The base attack is 3DC KA. You can push that for another 2DCs, to 5. You can add STR to double the 5DCs to 10 (3d6+1 KA). That is the most you can make it do, in 5e and 6e (well, it is not an automatic rule in 6e, but a recommended one that you can not more than double base damage).

[ghost-angel]

Re: 5th edition Hand Killing Attack Question

 

And as I said I could be wrong. "Has happened before, 'twill happen again."

 

But I know that in Hero Designer 5, however you buy a HKA, the maximum damage from STR is double the base damage classes.

 

Hero Designer is awesome Character Building Rules - it is absolutely horrible for Character Playing Rules. The maximum listed in HD is based solely on the absence of any and all outside Playing factors - like Pushing and Adjustments.

 

--

Pushing can be handled one of two ways: Adding onto the Base Points (and getting the results you came to) or Adding onto the end result as the last step of all other factors (meaning you add up the HKA normally, to a maximum of 2D6, and then adding another 2 Damage Classes for 2 1/2D6).

 

I prefer the first.

[GAZZA]

Re: 5th edition Hand Killing Attack Question

 

I do not believe that (aside from Foci, Inherent powers, and so on) there are any restrictions to what you can Push. So yes, to the original poster, that works. In fact he still has 5 STR "unused"; if the base attack was HKA 1d6+1 (2.5d6 w/STR), he could Push to 2d6 (4d6 w/STR).

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: 5th edition Hand Killing Attack Question

 

For Fifth Edition, the rule is that Powers that never cost END, are bought to 0 END, or have Charges cannot be Pushed. (5er p.427)