God as a Contact, not a spell list

Alcamtar · October 5, 2003

I am thinking about how I want to do religion and priests in my next campaign. I don't want the gods to jump at the mortals bidding (aka, casting spells), I want there to be reason for doubt as to whether the gods even exist and whether they respond to a prayer, and I want obvious miracles to be rare and powerful -- no limits on Active Points or effects.

I tried doing an uncontrolled cosmic VPP in a previous game, but it was a royal pain to GM because it created a lot of extra work, when I even remembered to use it. I'd like to let the player trigger it, without knowing what he's going to get, and without me having to compute a power on the fly, and without having an AP limit on the result.

Anyway, I'm thinking of making miracles a Contact perk: you can pray, the GM will roll secretly, and the god may intervene... but you usually won't be sure. The action will usually be subtle and non-obvious. A response could range anywhere from 1 point to 1000+ points of effect, flashy or hidden, and it may not be exactly what you asked for... after all, the god may have his own ideas. Since it's a contact, the priest will have to work to maintain the relationship, watch what he says, etc., or he could *lose* it.

What should such a perk cost? Given the extremely useful nature of the contact, all adders except "good relationship/slavishly loyal" seem appropriate, so a (8-) god contact would cost 18 points. Does that seem like a reasonable cost to have a direct prayer line to God? How about an additional modifier:

Base 8- prayer contact: 18 points

Base 11- prayer contact: 21 points

Each additional +1 roll: +3 points

x1 may get minor personal effects

x2 may get moderately powerful effects

x3 may get powerful effects

x4 may get flashy, epic effects

x5 may get legendary effects

So Moses with 18- legendary (x5) faith, has a 210 point contact, and can call up earthquakes, part the sea, and so forth.

Another way to handle it would be Luck, but that doesn't scale up so easily. Luck would be more like having a saintly grandmother who prays for you every day.

Anyone else try to do this? Any ideas for other ways to do it, perhaps using the standard powers system?

Mike

Briguy123 · October 6, 2003

In the campaign I'm currently setting up I treat divine miracles as favors. What I plan on doing is assigning the occassional experience point toward purchasing a favor from a deity. Particularly if the character in question did something that might please the gods. When it is needed, a player can call in that favor, though there are several stipulations. The favor may not be used to do something the god may oppose, such as healing an enemy of the faith, and the player does not necessarily decide how the favor will be enacted.

dugfromthearth · October 6, 2003

I need specifics.

can you give a sample character example and how they use the perk - what they can do with it and how it works.

SirWilliam · October 7, 2003

I'm doing something similar to this. Players can "invest" points in a Divine power pool. This is NOT a VPP in any way, shape, or form. Basically the player "prays" to their chosen diety and asks for whatever. I (as the GM) look at their "investment" and determine if and how such a request would be granted based on the diety in question, effect, and behavior.

This way involves a lot of GM discretion and hand waving, but my concept of dieties are not like D&D's. The dieties of my world are immortal and powerful beyond the ken of mortals. They don't have "stats", so I'm not restricted in their powers.

Blue Jogger · October 8, 2003

Alright, here's an idea, based on several systems (Ars Magica). I originally designed it for mages, but I think it will work with some changes.

First off, this works off of skills.

So we start with the simple one: Magic Skill 14-

A mage (Iggy) declares his intent, Cast Fireball.

Fireball is a 6D6 EB, Explosion. 45 Active points.

Assuming a -1 for 5 points, this means he can cast it on a (14-9) 5 or less.

Iggy, has skill levels, +1 for Creation Magic and +7 for Fire Magic. (Iggy likes burning things). Skill levels cost 3 points for +1 for close knit group, 5 points for +1 to a wider group, and 8 points if it affects nearly all spells most of the time.

So that makes it 5+7+1 or 13 or less. Iggy rolls a 12. The spell goes off. However, Iggy still has to roll to hit. Had Iggy rolled a 14, the GM would consult the spell backfire chart.

The GM might want to add a -5 penality for making spells off the cuff since it will slow down combat to calculate active spell cost. This will give players incentive to write up agreed upon spells.

Alcamtar · October 8, 2003

Originally posted by dugfromthearth
I need specifics.

can you give a sample character example and how they use the perk - what they can do with it and how it works.

The character need only have one item, the perk:

Pombo the Priest, Follower of St. Cuffbert

Contact: God (8-)

EXAMPLE: Pombo has been ignoring his faith lately. He hasn't been praying or attending services, and last night he even got drunk with Clonan the Barbarian. This morning, he awakens with a bad hangover. He mumbles "Oh Cuffbert, I pray thee releive mine hangover." The GM rolls his Contact and gets a success; he decides that since Pombo has been rather cavalier lately, Cuffbert is going to teach him a lesson, so he summons XYAIUN, the Demon of Excess, to follow Pombo around today and annoy him (treated as unluck). Pombo might have been better off not getting Cuffbert's attention after all.

EXAMPLE: Having learned a lesson, Pombo has been more faithful lately, even praying daily and giving alms to the poor. Pombo and his friends are seeking the Lost Shrine when they are accosted by bandits. Pombo decides to go parley with them, so he quietly prays for protection and success. He then tells his friends to cover him, arranges a back-up plan, and rubs his lucky rabbits foot for good measure, before stepping boldly in front of the bandit chief. The GM notes that all the "backup planning" reflects a distinct lack of faith, but he *has* been more obedient, so he only levies a -3 penalty to the contact roll. It comes up 10, and Cuffbert ignores him.

The party has a hard fight but wins through. Pombo is not sure if Cuffbert had anything to do with it or not, but afterwards he loudly prays "Thank you oh Mighty Cuffbert for delivering your servants." The GM notes that such attribution is a mark of faith...

EXAMPLE: The party gets lost, and Pombo dismounts, drops to his knees, and prays for guidance. The party mocks him but he persists for a good 15 minutes. The GM gives him a +1 for extra time, +1 for his previous demonstration of faith, and an additional +1 for a public display in the face of ridicule (and Cuffbert is not eager to be seen as a failure!) A roll of 12 succeeds, and the GM grants the bored barbarian an INT roll to notice a faint trail while Pombo is praying. Pombo again loudly praises Cuffbert.

EXAMPLE: Arriving at the shrine, the party is attacked by evil shadows. Pombo jumps forward, presents his holy symbol and prays "Oh Cuffbert deliver us, drive these foul fiends from us by the light of your holy glory!" The GM grants +3 for faith (jumping forward without second thoughts), +1 because Cuffbert hates undead, and +1 for the florid prayer... a roll of 6 succeeds spectacularly (with +5), and the shadows cower and flee, before an errant sunbeam vaporizes them.

Note: If Pombo had an adder for the contact for a more flashy/direct sort of miracles, the demon (in the first example) might have appeared in the flesh, and when he tried to turn the shadows he might have shot beams of light out of his fingertips...

Mike

Markdoc · October 8, 2003

The system as described for Cuffbert works for me: although I would probably also levy a penalty for continuous calling for help.

I like the idea of increasing the contact cost epending on the leevl of help expected: pouring your XP into your religion seems like a good measure of faith.

One idea I suggested last time this came up was that the points invested in the contact contribute to the deities own VPP: so a a priest who has invested 50 points in "faith" is going to mean more to deity than a few hundred casual worshippers who just turn up on holy days...

cheers, Mark

Gadodel · April 22, 2005