Monkey Grip

[PerennialRook]

Some of you may recognise this a feat from that 'other' game. In converting a beloved character over from that 'other' game (a dwarven defender with a halberd and shield), i find myself needing to replicate it's effects. It makes it so that you can use a specific weapon which is normaly weilded in two hands as a one handed weapon.

 

I tried to do this myself (with my loose grasp of how the system works) and ended up just 'buying back' the -1/2 advantage 'two handed' then applying to the points spent the -1 disadvantage 'halberd only'.

 

Since the real cost of the halberd in FH is 59 points the two handed disadvantage is worth (59 - (59 / 1.5)) 20 points, then taking the -1 'halberd only' disadvantage on the 20 points is (20 / 2) 10 points.

 

Should the 'halberd only' disadvantage be any less or greater?

 

Is this even the best way to go about acomplishing this?

 

Thank you for your help.

 

-Preston

 

Edit: It's late. "%" and "/" are two compleytely different things, but somehow this was just not registering in my brain.

[Rick]

How about buying the ability to use a 2 handed-weapon W/1 hand as a weapon familiarity. 2pts

[Lupus]

Or buy up strength, 'only to reduce strength minimum.' I'd place that as... prolly -1/2, same as HA. If it proves to be abusive, say -1/4. Two-handed weapons can, after all, be used in one hand by increasing the strength min. Polearms one-handed seem a little dicey to me, though, without the user being huge. But whatever works.

[dugfromthearth]

all you should need to do is increase the strength to wield it one handed.

 

either buy it as strength with a -1/2 lim as suggested

 

or if this is a style, build the maneuvers with bonus to strength only counter str min - should be 1pt in a maneuver for +5 str.

[PerennialRook]

Give me a little more credit than that. I know that increasing the STR Min by 3 would make a two handed weapon usable, and I wouldn't have a problem then buying the 20 STR required to wield it two handed, but FREd specificaly mentions polearms as not being usable in one hand per this rule.

 

-Preston

[Alcamtar]

Extra Limb (5), invisible (+1), only for weilding two-handed weapons in one hand (-1), real cost: 5

 

Mike

[PerennialRook]

Wouldn't making any halberd a one handed weapon have greater game impact than just being able to wield it in one hand?

[Rick]

YEs it would that's allow anyone to use it one handed. That's why you should make it a skill like Weapon Familiarity, or sometype of talent. My vote would be the Weapon Fam. variation, 2 pts and you can use one specific 2-handed weapon (Glaive, or long spear, or Naginata or Kwon Doa) W/one hand.

[PerennialRook]

YEs it would that's allow anyone to use it one handed. That's why you should make it a skill like Weapon Familiarity, or sometype of talent.

What I described would be a type of talent. If I did the math correctly (which is what I was origionally checking, along with whether my aproach would be a good solution) then for a halberd wielding it in one hand is worth about 20 points. Allowing a character to buy a talent that allows him/her to treat a specific two handed weapon would in effect be buying off the disadvantage. In this case it ends up, if my math is correct, that it costs 10 points, right?

 

-Preston

[Rick]

The word should be replaced W/the word could in my last post. As to how many points it's worth you need to decide how such an ability balances in the rest of the world. I DOn't see it having an enorously unbalancing feel to it. You could still limit the use of a shield, and beyond that it wouldn't really effect anything else. This is why I suggested the Weapon Fam route.

[PerennialRook]

I DOn't see it having an enorously unbalancing feel to it. You could still limit the use of a shield, and beyond that it wouldn't really effect anything else. This is why I suggested the Weapon Fam route.

The whole point was to let the character have a shield on his other arm. It's like saying here, wield this two handed weapon in one hand and use your other to hold this really big shield. I think that's worth more than just 2 or 3 points, not to mention the added benefits for then weilding a two handed weapon as a one handed weapon in two hands.

 

-Preston

[Markdoc]

My approach to this is more rules-driven than special-effects driven (Hey, I can't help it - I'm a rules kind of guy)

 

Having said that, I'd ignore the Halberd entirely. Essentially what the character wants is a "special" one handed weapon that lets him do more damage than any of the standard weapons available.

 

My rule of thumb is that "common" items are free, but custom jobs cost points

 

I'd just let him buy the weapon with the appropriate modifiers: an HKA with 1" stretching and OAF (Halberd). He can put STR min on or not, as required (if not, he could do Halberd damage with fewer dice of HKA, but that's OK with me).

 

Yes, it would be relatively expensive, but at the same time, it effectively gives the character the ability to dish out serious damage and still keep his free +3 DCV from being able to tote a 2H weapon and a shield. Think about it - this guy would make mincemeat out of a similar character with the halberd and no shield...

 

cheers, Mark

[PerennialRook]

Why make the character buy the whole weapon if everyone else gets it for free?

 

Yes if the only difference between the character with both the halberd and shield and the character with just a halberd are the equpitment they have or are able to use then yes, the one with the shield is obviously superior.

 

One must also take into consideration what the character wielding only the halberd spent the other 10 (or howevermany points the ability should cost) points.

 

The halberd only character could have an entire point of speed for those ten points, a few martial manuvers, or maybe straight CSL's with a halberd.

 

The character should not have to spend points for something everyone else gets for free.

 

-Preston

[Demonsong]

The truth be told, two handed weapons are only 1 or 2 DC above most normal one handed weapons. So I don’t see it as two unbalancing. Just make up some rule and go with it. And lets be honest this is not a power gaming thing, if it was he would just be using a Battle Axe in one hand, with martial arts and Killing Blow. 3 1/2 D6 to 4D6 Axe any one.

 

Let’s see…

 

5pts Monkey Grip: Allows a character to use a 2 Handed Weapon in 1 Hand. The Strength Minimum for that weapon increases by 5 points and the weapon receives a -2 OCV to represent the difficulty of balancing and controlling such a large weapon with one hand.

 

As a GM, I would probably make the character come up with a good story and background. And probably require some kind of Knowledge Skill about this unique style of fighting.

[Rick]

Demon Songs Idea is a good one. Plus it falls inline W/rules like two-weapon fighting, rapid shot or Defencive manuevers.

[dugfromthearth]

I just make everyone pay for weapons and armor.

 

I've never liked that a fighter has chainmail, sword and bow for free, where the mage has to pay for forcefield and fireball.

[Rick]

Uuuuhhhhhhh...ok. Except that...., well then....nevermind.

[Markdoc]

>>>I just make everyone pay for weapons and armor.

I've never liked that a fighter has chainmail, sword and bow for free, where the mage has to pay for forcefield and fireball.<<<<

 

We tried that. Several times. It failed horribly every time (unless, I suppose, you WANT a game where everyone is a mage...)

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

>>>Why make the character buy the whole weapon if everyone else gets it for free?<<<<

 

Ummm... they don't. 1-handed weapons with extra reach that do Halberd damage don't exist (at least in my game). Unless they are magic, in which case the creator paid full points for them too...

 

>>>One must also take into consideration what the character wielding only the halberd spent the other 10 (or howevermany points the ability should cost) points.<<<<

 

Umm... I did. If his opponent spent those extra points on levels of DCV, with a limitation or two, then the two characters would end up the same. Isn't that the point?

 

After all, if it only costs 2-5 points to go one handed with two handed weapons, then HELLO, BABY! Gimme that really big "one handed" sword that does 2d6 base damage....

 

Sure it's only one or two DC more, but frankly that makes all the difference. I have not failed to notice how in our games the 1 1/2 d6 weapons usually go "boink!" off heavily armoured opponents, while the 2d6 and 2d6+1 weapons cause more STUN (up to 20 more stun on a good shot!) and (importantly!) almost always cause BOD.

 

Stun comes back quickly. BOD does not.

 

The fact that players will squirm like eels in a trap to squeeze out just one more DC means they have noticed this fact too.

 

Of course this is just my recommendation: if you don't like it choose some other approach. But I doubt it is too expensive. In my experience players are often willing to stump 10 points or so for a unique advantage that gives them a little edge.

 

cheers, Mark

[Demonsong]

Mardoc,

 

But they are paying 10 or more points for the ability to do it with my method

 

5pts Monkey Grip: Allows a character to use a 2 Handed Weapon in 1 Hand. The Strength Minimum for that weapon increases by 5 points and the weapon receives a -2 OCV to represent the difficulty of balancing and controlling such a large weapon with one hand.

 

As a GM, I would probably make the character come up with a good story and background. And probably require some kind of Knowledge Skill about this unique style of fighting.

 

Lets break it down:

 

5 points for the ability,

 

3 points to buy off the -2 OCV Penalties

 

2 points for the KS: Monkey Grip Style

 

And then damage is probably going to be the same; + or – only 1DC! How is that you say? OK said pole arm has a min STR of say 15; with Monkey grip that min STR is 20. And the pole arm does 2d6 Damage. Joe blow the fighter has a STR of 20 he picks up a bastard sword, 1 1/2 D6 STR min 13; one handed STR min 15, +1 DC for having a STR of 20, BAMMMM, 2D6 damage. All things considered it’s really close to the same effect.

 

The only difference is the reach, and I could easily see a GM saying that due to way the weapon is held and used the character can not use the extra reach the weapon provides.

 

Any way thats just my thoughts on it.

[AnotherSkip]

Why not take ye old Axe, buy the damage bonus stikeey thinggy and cal it a Halaberd?

 

Besides part of the problem with "it's a unique weapon make him pay points!!!" is that the monkey grip Feat is a Talent. the points should be part of the character not the weapon. basically Monkey Grip works with _any_ weapon of choice.

 

 

another option would be just pricing out the talent at say eightish points and if need to be adjusted later for play balance do so.

 

part of the problem I have with just going with the Halberd option you listed Perrenial Rook is that the feat should apply to any weapon.. though it does calculate nicely, still other weapons would point out differently. also I would charge -1 only for str to offset two handed need and -1 only for Halberds. The limitations are separate and distinct. without both the talent is vastly different.

[AnotherSkip]

post script:

 

you also are ignoring some of the disads with one handed use and are obviously ignoring the limiations also on the weapon itself id probably add OAF (gee is that a Fish or a halberd?) to the list o calculations and possibly a few more..

[Markdoc]

Heh. Not to get bogged down in the various replies - all of which had good points, by the way - but just to clarify my approach.

 

You can certainly do this on an ad-hoc basis if you wish - and as Demonsong pointed out, his approach costs about the same, so its not that I think it's unbalanced.

 

But my approach is:

 

Build Talents like Talents.

 

Talents, by and large under 5th Ed., are built as powers. So if someone wants the ability to use two handed weapons as one handed weapons, fine: to me that's simply a unique use of HKA/HA. If they want to use only a halberd or all kind weapons, the mechanism is the same, only the cost differs.

 

Likewise with things like deadly blow: that's a unique talent and should have been built like one, not the strange non-hero system method used in FH.

 

This approach has two overwhelming advantages

1. It's simple.

2. You get what you pay for. And conversely, you pay for what you get.

 

So if someone want to do extra damage with a halberd: fine. The rules exist to let them do you that. A more normal use for this "extra damage" effect in my game is to build viable "knife-fighter" characters, who can take on armoured foes. It's a common archetype in films and novels, but hard to do with just a standard "free" 1/2 d6 HKA dagger.

 

I use the same mechanism for both, instead of trying to come up with different ways.

 

As you can tell, I'm a lazy GM: I hate to make up things which are already detailed in the rules.

 

cheers, Mark

[Enforcer84]

Re: Monkey Grip

 

heh. I was just thinking about this. Sorry for the necro (only 4 years!)

I was thinking talent myself, since were mimicking talenter...er feats.

 

But, building the "Special" halberd with points and OAF doesn't necissarily mean it's a one time thing. It could be his special power, bought OIF (Halbred of Opporotunity Or even 2 handed weapon of opporotunity) You're buying the special bit with the weapon not the weapon itself

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Monkey Grip

 

I hate to ask, and maybe I missed it... why didn't you just buy Sword Muscles, Extra STR, Only for Wielding Two-Handed Weapons 1 Handed, (-1 1/2)?