Aid vs. Time Limited

[Steve]

In 6th edition, a new power modifier called "Time Limit" was introduced. It is a Limitation on normally Persistent abilities.

 

Since Characteristics are considered Persistent, I am playing with builds that use Time Limit on heightened Characteristics instead of Aid to boost them.

 

I can take 2d6 of Aid to boost STR, Self Only, for 6 points, and it will fade at 5 points per turn. But getting up to 12 points could take several rolls. Or I can take a flat +12 to STR with a Time Limit of 1 minute (a -2 Limitation) and pay only 4 points.

 

The second way has predictability, but the first can help restore reduced Characteristics as well as boost them. I think if I'm using Aid to boost a Characteristic, I'm better off buying Time Limit instead.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Aid vs. Time Limited

 

In 6th edition, a new power modifier called "Time Limit" was introduced. It is a Limitation on normally Persistent abilities.

 

Since Characteristics are considered Persistent, I am playing with builds that use Time Limit on heightened Characteristics instead of Aid to boost them.

 

I can take 2d6 of Aid to boost STR, Self Only, for 6 points, and it will fade at 5 points per turn. But getting up to 12 points could take several rolls. Or I can take a flat +12 to STR with a Time Limit of 1 minute (a -2 Limitation) and pay only 4 points.

 

The second way has predictability, but the first can help restore reduced Characteristics as well as boost them. I think if I'm using Aid to boost a Characteristic, I'm better off buying Time Limit instead.

 

One minor point: the Time Limit modifier is normally available only for powers which cost 0 End, or cost End only to activate. Buying the (+1/2) Reduced Endurance Cost modifier for the above will increase the cost to 6pts. STR is an unusual case among characteristics because it has an End cost, so for other characteristics this wouldn't be an issue.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Aid vs. Time Limited

 

Aid, self only has always been overpriced, so it seems reasonable this would work itself out.

 

STR is odd under these rules. If you buy it 0 END (or Costs only to Activate), that means you get to use it at 0 END for the full minute. It might be reasonable to allow the STR without buying END down, with the caveat that you still spend END when you exert the STR.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Aid vs. Time Limited

 

I can take 2d6 of Aid to boost STR, Self Only, for 6 points, and it will fade at 5 points per turn. But getting up to 12 points could take several rolls. Or I can take a flat +12 to STR with a Time Limit of 1 minute (a -2 Limitation) and pay only 4 points.

 

The second way has predictability, but the first can help restore reduced Characteristics as well as boost them. I think if I'm using Aid to boost a Characteristic, I'm better off buying Time Limit instead.

 

First, what Xavier said: Time Limit is for 0 END powers.

 

Second, you can't restore lost Characteristics with and Aid; you need Healing for that. An Aid to STR will offset any STR Drains the character has been subjected to, but all the Aid points will fade whether the Drain has run its course or not.

 

Third, you don't have to roll higher than the previous effect to increase the benefit from the Aid (unless you are using the Boost option). For a 2d6 Aid, that means with an average roll of 7 points, you will only need two applications to max out at 12. Of course if you roll poorly it might take several rolls, but odds are you only need to roll twice. If you want predictability, use the Standard Effect rule and you get +6 STR every time you use the Aid.

 

I kind of think that Aid is the "proper" way to build this power, but I admit that building Characteristics as powers is often a simpler route, so if the Time Limit works for you, go for it. The point difference is trivial, so it isn't really breaking anything.

[Christopher]

Re: Aid vs. Time Limited

 

It think in order for STR to cost less Endurance, you have to buy a naked advantage for a specific amout of STR. If you use more than that, all of it cost's endurance.

Also, don't mistake the power that give you +x STR with the STR. Each costs endurance seperately. STR cost's endurance to use. The powers that modify it work totally normal and may cost seperate endurance.

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: Aid vs. Time Limited

 

I thought it was legal to by it like this: Tireless Strength: +10 STR, No END(Including 10 Base STR) +½, 20 Active Points. Or did that get changed in 6e without me noticing?

[Ice9]

Re: Aid vs. Time Limited

 

That is legal - and effectively, the same as buying:

+10 STR, No END

Naked Advantage: No END, on 10 points of STR

[Steve]

Re: Aid vs. Time Limited

 

My original purpose in exploring other options originated with the power write-up "I've Taken Your Measure" from the Hero System Martial Arts book, which boosted OCV, DCV and Dex. Since DCV is considered a defense in 6th, it only gains 1/2 the rolled amount, and I wanted something that would boost them equally without doing a combination of Linked Aid effects. I can build a similar power using Time Limit instead then OCV and DCV are boosted equally.

 

I was curious if anyone else had used Time Limit as an Aid substitute.

 

The one character that immediately.came to mind when I was going through this exercise was DC's Hourman. You could probably simulate Miraclo's effects pretty well by using an hour as the time limit.

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: Aid vs. Time Limited

 

For self only buffs it's usually the simplest way to do it...

 

Unless you're building the Hulk.

[Christopher]

Re: Aid vs. Time Limited

 

That is legal - and effectively, the same as buying:

+10 STR, No END

Naked Advantage: No END, on 10 points of STR

So, this saves you 1 END. Not that big. And your GM might rule that it aplies only if you have used all of your normally END-Costing STR (inlcuding Aid) before you use it.

 

There are some special rules for naked advantages and endurance. For example the naked advantage always cost's endurance, unless that is bought of.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Aid vs. Time Limited

 

Bodkins Odds note importantly that for self-buffing buying characterisitcs as powers works well, but Aid has the advantage of being useable on others.

 

The fact that DCV costs double to affect with Adjustment powers does skew some power effects. If you adjust multiple characteristics with an Aid, the RAW state the ratio has to stay the same as when you bought it (unless you put advantages on it).

 

To get around awkward numbers of dice, we house rule that to say that the ratio of the total rolled on the dice has to stay the same, but you only roll one set of dice. So in your case DCV just always gets twice as many points allotted as OCV and DEX. You will want to make sure, of course, that you get a roll of at least 20 (5 to DEX, 5 to OCV, 10 to DCV) or else your OCV and DCV aren't going to benefit.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Aid vs. Time Limited

 

There are some special rules for naked advantages and endurance. For example the naked advantage always cost's endurance' date=' unless that is bought of.[/quote']

 

Reduced Endurance is a specific exception to that. (6e1 314)

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: Aid vs. Time Limited

 

There are some special rules for naked advantages and endurance. For example the naked advantage always cost's endurance, unless that is bought of.

 

The rules make specific exception for naked Reduced Endurance, they cost no END. Therefore, Ice9 is right, the two builds are equivalent and both save 2 END.

 

EDIT: Damn, I've been ninja'd!