Skill's in Frameworks - how did you made it?

[Christopher]

This is about 6E, but 5E ideas might be fine too.

 

I know that skills are special powers and thus should not be put into Frameworks.

But one of my potential Characters will most likely require a Skill VPP. I do have an Idea how to aproach it (from a balacing point of view), but first wanted to know how did you solved such builds.

 

These are my questions:

1) Did you ever played in a game where Skills were bought in a Framework, especially a VPP?

and if the answer is yes,...

2) ...how were said Frameworks/said Skills build?

 

Thanks for answering.

[Martin2]

Re: Skill's in Frameworks - how did you made it?

 

This is about 6E, but 5E ideas might be fine too.

 

These are my questions:

1) Did you ever played in a game where Skills were bought in a Framework, especially a VPP?

 

No.

 

The only thought of having a framework skills would be a computer based one. Each skill being uploaded from memory to be active skills. It would work for a super with a computer for a brain for active skills.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Skill's in Frameworks - how did you made it?

 

No.

 

The only thought of having a framework skills would be a computer based one. Each skill being uploaded from memory to be active skills. It would work for a super with a computer for a brain for active skills.

 

I have seen this done it Normals Unbound for 4th ed. this I think is one of those cases that breaking the rule (with permission of course) would be the best course. Other than that, I guess officially, just by +x INT lim. only for skills, should work. (I was going to say overall levels, but I think that they can't add to unfamiliar skills).

[ghost-angel]

Re: Skill's in Frameworks - how did you made it?

 

Yes - I've done two types of Skill Frameworks;

 

The first was a Language Framework - designed to be more reliable than Universal Translator (no roll required, could speak every language on the planet fluently.

 

Variable Power Pool, 8 base + 4 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Half-Phase Action (+1/2), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (18 Active Points); Limited Special Effect Languages Only (-1) [Total Cost 13]

 

That's a 5E VPP, could easily be made a 6E VPP with a slight tweek:

Variable Power Pool, 8 base + 4 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Half-Phase Action (+1/2), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (13 Active Points); Limited Special Effect Langauges Only (-1) [Total Cost 10]

 

6E is a little cheaper since you can bring the Control down to 4AP and leave the pool at 8. That's two languages the character can keep in their head at once, and it only takes a moment for them too switch between languages. It worked nicely in gameplay, I believe eventually it was upped to have 4 languages at once.

 

The other was a KS VPP, the character was 5000 years old and knew a little bit about everything. Built as Cosmic (No Skill Roll, Zero Phase Action To Switch) with KS Only (-1) and Character Must Purchase KS after 5 uses (-1/2), I don't remember how we came to the 5 Uses number, maybe we just rolled a D6 or something, but it seemed to work alright.

 

You could know any subject, so it was generally narrow enough to remove many modifiers. It was a 9 Point VPP so up to two complimentary Skills inside the VPP (And any number already purchased outside) could be active. Skills were always bought at the 3-Point INT Level (on the character that was a 16- Roll).

 

Another KS VPP I had an idea for but never got to play was the Library VPP. Similar to the above, but it had a OIF Immobile Focus Limitaiton on the whole thing (each slot could take OIF to represent checking out books). That one was a larger VPP, I think 30 Points, so big rolls could be put into it.

[Escafarc]

Re: Skill's in Frameworks - how did you made it?

 

I've done the same as ghost-angel with a VPP for Background Skills Only for characters with extended lifespans.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Skill's in Frameworks - how did you made it?

 

I did a small VPP for background skills, which was basically a computer database. It's for a SF setting, available to anyone with a wearable interface or implant, as long as they're in range of a wireless network. (Yeah, it's kinda like an advanced PDA.) It's limited to "public-access" information: basic knowledge skills (at about a "wikipedia" level) area knowledge, languages and so on.

[Markdoc]

Re: Skill's in Frameworks - how did you made it?

 

I've done this multiple ways, for multiple characters - immortals, people with computer downlinks in their brain, people with spirit guides, etc.

 

The simplest way (GM's permission only!) is a VPP. You need to be careful with this, since even a relatively small VPP can give you multiple skills with stupidly high skill rolls when a few limitations are stacked on. As a GM, I only allow this when the VPP is max. about 11 active points (a CHA-based skill with +3 to the roll) and preferably smaller. In addition there needs to be some sort of limitation (skills the character could reasonably acquired in a long life, skills common to police .... whatever, but there needs to be something)

 

Another approach (and quite rules legal) is to buy cramming several times, allowing the character to swap skills. The downside of course is that you only get an 8- roll, but for general out-of-combat tasks, that's usually sufficient, and it essentially gives you basic skills in everything.

 

The third approach, if you need a really broad range of skills ....is to buy a stupidly high roll with a general skill. So instead of trying to buy Biochemist, organic chemist, nanochemist, molecular biology, pharmacology, etc, etc just buy "Chemistry, 20-". Sure, you may take a -8 for attempting to analyse alien nanochemistry, but that still gives you a decent base roll.

 

cheers, Mark

[ghost-angel]

Re: Skill's in Frameworks - how did you made it?

 

I think the key to a Skill VPP is to limit it to a specific type of Skill (Language, KS, AK, SS, PS), keep the Control (easier in 6E) Low so the Skill Roll itself is at INT (or other base Characteristic) or just over it, but not much higher than that.

 

On another option, the Ultimate Skill (6E Hero System Skills) goes into the idea of other Universals (copying the format of Universal Translator) which also work well in game.

[Naanomi]

Re: Skill's in Frameworks - how did you made it?

 

I've done it a few times...

 

One as part of a 'copy' type character, to copy the skills of the person they are imitating

 

One as a 'universal KS/PS/Science' library in a base

 

One as a magical ritual that 'attuned' someone to an area, giving them the AK, CK, KS, and Language appropriate for the city they are in

[Christopher]

Re: Skill's in Frameworks - how did you made it?

 

Okay, time for my build:

The concept is someone with access to any knowledge in the universe. These are the rules that apply to the VPP:

1) Every Skill bought in the VPP start with a flat 9- or 11- basis respectively, no Bonus from users atributes (Like Skills bought through Foci, 6E1 283). I know the rules say otherwise, but balancing and Special effects make this the better choice.

2) I asume that the rule about aiding frameworks also aplies to making complementary rolls. So only exo-Framework Skill can be Complimentary Skills for his skills (he can still Aid others with them, and others can aid his framework skills). They still prevent the "Missing Prequisite" penalty (the -1 to -3).

3) He has access to so much knowledge, finding the "right" skill may be difficulty (the Power Roll).

4) When he doesn't know what he is searching for the Power Roll suffers a -1 to -3 Skill Roll penalty (when you only know PS: Pottery, deducing that those Sigils are Qilphotic in origin is a little bit diffculty). He can just go the slow way (first Magic, then Demonic Magic, then the apropirate Sub KS).

5) He can't go to People or Small Group Scale with his Framework KS

6) Even if he has a Certain information, he has a complication that sometimes forbids him to share it with his allies (the perfect GM tool to not bust the quest with a good selected skill).

7) Changing Slots is an effort: In Combat, Combat Skills may be switched with a (increased) END cost (4 times). Outside, it takes extra time (5 Minutes) unless the GM allows otherwise (when we need that bomb disarmed now). (effectively two different -1 Limitations to choose from; in effect should be worth a -3/4).

8) To make things easier, Background Skills cost 3 to learn and 2 Points per +1. Otherwise, the difference would be to big to correctly balance that (-1/4)

9) The Martial Arts Skill will not be avalible. But he has certain Powers that allow him to mimic it's effects (0 END HTH Attacks/Killing Attacks/NND's, 0 END Limited STR, OCV/DCV modifiers). This may be a seperate Multipower/VPP, since the Active Point costs for MA and most Combat skills is just to high.

 

Skill VPP 15 Controll + 85 Pool;

Inherent (+1/4) = 19 AP + 85 Pool

Special Limitation (see 7; -3/4), Increased Skill Cost (see 8; -1/4)

Real Cost 9+85 = 94