Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for points

[phoenix240]

I do and it works pretty well but I was wondering if anyone else did?

[Lucius]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

At one time that was standard, but that was before 6th Edition.

 

I don't recall anyone having a problem with it before, but someone must have because they changed it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And a complicated palindromedary

[phoenix240]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

My experience has been positive overall. Sometimes a tricky player will try to sneak something through but that comes up with just about everything.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

Absolutely allow it. It makes no sense to do it any other way to me. As always they have to be real complications/disadvantages but its a nobrainer for me. Done it that way for decades and its worked just fine.

[phoenix240]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

Nice to know I'm not alone.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

Nice to know I'm not alone.

 

Ditto, I'm often the odd man out.

[Escafarc]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

I do for Bases and Vehicles but not for Followers or Summoned.

[Armitage]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

I think the problem in the past has been things like Followers bought with the Psychological Limitation "Devoted to [Character]", so it's not an actual Disadvantage. If a Disadvantage/Complication hinders you (as opposed to the Follower/Base/Vehicle), I would allow it to reduce the cost.

It also depends on in-game background. If a corporation or government helps fund your base or vehicle I can certainly see "Watched by [backer]" reducing the cost, since they are explicitly helping you pay for it.

[dmjalund]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

add to the above, if it makes the follower less suitable for purpose.

[phoenix240]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

That's true. I try to police Disad/Comps a little more strictly for Followers, etc. Does it hinder the character or make them notable less useful for their general purpose, etc. I admit I have allowed some just because they make the Perk more "interesting" and useful for plot devices from time to time.

[Lucius]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

I do for Bases and Vehicles but not for Followers or Summoned.

 

Mind if I ask your reasoning for that?

 

I'm not getting why Professer Wreckloose's piloted Mobile Advanced Weapons Platform MK I is built by different rules than the unmanned and automated MAWP MK II

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Weapon Familiarity: Palindromedary Mounted weapons

[Escafarc]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

This is mainly for Supers, I build Followers like PCs(75 pts of Complications) but there wasn't any reason to get PCs to take any Complications on Vehicles and Bases since the cost was the same so I changed it.

[Christopher]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

I admit I have allowed some just because they make the Perk more "interesting" and useful for plot devices from time to time.

Especially any Star Trek Vessel or Station has:

"Unluck 10d6", Only to catch the most unlikely, disabling catastrophees in a moment when nothing else threatens the ship or while exploring an otherwise unremarkable area.

[Lucius]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

This is mainly for Supers' date=' I build Followers like PCs(75 pts of Complications) but there wasn't any reason to get PCs to take any Complications on Vehicles and Bases since the cost was the same so I changed it.[/quote']

 

Ah. So you could have made the same rule for Bases and Vehicles - require them to take 75 pts of Complications.

 

For that matter, you could have made the same rule for Followers - the Complications come off the Points you pay.

 

In any case, you should probably ensure that the Complications are valued from the point of view of the player's character.

 

For a player character, "Thinks for Self" is a default position and "Loyal to Leader" is a Complication.

 

For a follower, "Loyal to Leader" is a default position and "Thinks for Self" is a Complication.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is threatening to rewrite my character sheet for me. As if.

[Lucius]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

This is mainly for Supers' date=' I build Followers like PCs(75 pts of Complications) but there wasn't any reason to get PCs to take any Complications on Vehicles and Bases since the cost was the same so I changed it.[/quote']

 

So I have a couple of questions on this.

 

First, do you require all Player Characters to take the full 75 pts? I can't take an unComplicated character and just have fewer Total Points?

 

Second, what if someone spends, say, 5 pts on a Follower, so the Follower should have by the rules 25 Total Points. Do they still need 75 pts of Complications?

 

Finally, say I spend 20 pts on a Follower so it has 100 Total Points. Can I spend 25 of them on actual Characteristics and Skills and spend 75 pts on a custom "UnComplicated Character" Power and have no Complications?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary has a feeling this post will be cross-posted to the thread Lucius started called "More Complications Please."

[Escafarc]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

So I have a couple of questions on this.

 

First, do you require all Player Characters to take the full 75 pts? I can't take an unComplicated character and just have fewer Total Points?

 

I allow fewer points of Comps just like it says in the rules for that.

 

Second, what if someone spends, say, 5 pts on a Follower, so the Follower should have by the rules 25 Total Points. Do they still need 75 pts of Complications?

 

Finally, say I spend 20 pts on a Follower so it has 100 Total Points. Can I spend 25 of them on actual Characteristics and Skills and spend 75 pts on a custom "UnComplicated Character" Power and have no Complications?

 

In cases where the follower has a a lot less points then the PC I use the guideline chart for the different levels(heroic/superheroic) to determine the amount of Comps.

 

It hasn't been a problem in my games in fact when we converted to 6E we ended up dropping a number of Comps.

[Christopher]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

While I can't speak from experience but only what I think is right, I will at least say that (pratically I agree with Escafarc, just writing it a little bit longer):

The best way might be to determeine the power Level of the Follower (thats how the official works seem to do it). That way we get suiteable Charactersitics/Power Limits as well as a guideline for hom many complications he should/has to take. I also think the Followers should be at least one "level" lower than the hero. (so a standart superhero might not have more than a Low-Powered Sidekick). Of course, some exeptions may be possible especially when the Follower has a required roll or some other limitation (preferebly GM choce when he is avalible). But it could be very anoying to have one player controll 1 400 pt-Follower and 1 320 pt Champion (when the others don't).

 

One different aproach to see the complications/base points: You normaly have to take a 400 pt champion with 75 Complications, but can "buy off" the Complications with the other points. So 325 with no Complciations is still a 400 pt Superhero (one with no vulnerabilites, DNCP, problems with his ID, no hunteds).

The problem is see: There is no way (short of a plot device) to "disable" the character or his powers, when they are in the way of a good story. Also the GM has no way to build him into the story and for a new one not even an understanding who he is.

Also, a Hero without complications is lacking something very important. The Champions genre book adresses that: Superman is who he is because of his CvK, Weakness vs. Cryptonite, Weakness vs. Red Sun and the adventures he has while suffering from them. Not despite of his Complications but, because of them he is a hero and even the archetipical hero he is.

 

The player has to pay for Base Points + Complications per the normal summoning/Follower rules. Like at creation he can just not take the complications, but he still has to pay the full price (like above, buying the complications off). He still has the ulitily of the being on the X pt Level (regarding Limits, if used), even if he has only as much points as the next lower level availible.

 

Therefore:

The 5 pt/25 Points Follower would be a 08/15 Standart Normal: 10 Base + 15 Complications. Including power Limits.

The 100 point without Complications would be a Competent normal with 30 XP (enough to buy of the normal 30 Complications), so 130 Points or 26 Real Cost on the sheet. Includding Competent normal Power Limits (or what ever seems suiteable for a character with 30 XP, maybe the limits of the next level would apply until he get's there).

 

Edit:

There is no better way to describe the "a hero needs limitations on his powers or complications to disable him" than how the Campions sourcebook describes the Achiclle's Heel:

"In dramatic terms, an Achilles’ heel serves two purposes. First, it gives the writer a way to hinder or restrict a hero so complex stories can be told. [...] Second, it helps to establish that the hero is a hero. Anyone with superpowers can do amazing things. But only a hero is willing to struggle against all the odds, despite the pain and difficulties he suffers because of his Achilles’ heel, to see that Good wins and Justice triumphs. In short — a hero is a hero because of his Achilles’ heel, not because he has superhuman powers."

[Lucius]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

I hope you don't mind, Christopher, but I'm also going to crosspost this (with emphasis added.) Because you seem to be one of the few voices saying this.

 

It also used to be my position (although I would not have expressed it that way.) I'm no longer certain of my position, which is one reason why I started the Complications thread and am trying to keep the discussion going.

 

But I want the kind of things you're saying to be heard in that thread.

 

The best way might be to determeine the power Level of the Follower (thats how the official works seem to do it). That way we get suiteable Charactersitics/Power Limits as well as a guideline for home many complications he should/has to take. I also think the Followers should be at least one "level" lower than the hero. (so a standart superhero might not have more than a Low-Powered Sidekick). Of course, some exeptions may be possible especially when the Follower has a required roll or some other limitation (preferebly GM choce when he is avalible). But it could be very anoying to have one player controll 1 400 pt-Follower and 1 320 pt Champion (when the others don't).

 

One different aproach to see the complications/base points: You normaly have to take a 400 pt champion with 75 Complications, but can "buy off" the Complications with the other points. So 325 with no Complciations is still a 400 pt Superhero (one with no vulnerabilites, DNCP, problems with his ID, no hunteds).

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And a 2,000 point palindromedary follower

[casualplayer]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

I think the problem in the past has been things like Followers bought with the Psychological Limitation "Devoted to [Character]"' date=' so it's not an actual Disadvantage. If a Disadvantage/Complication hinders [b']you[/b] (as opposed to the Follower/Base/Vehicle), I would allow it to reduce the cost.

It also depends on in-game background. If a corporation or government helps fund your base or vehicle I can certainly see "Watched by [backer]" reducing the cost, since they are explicitly helping you pay for it.

 

It seems like it isn't a Disadvantage until someone impersonates the devotee, makes the devotee unrecognizable or the devoted's mothering begins to smother.

 

But yeah to the OP. All of those character points-determined Powers and Perks I have had the PC pay for the base/5 and any Complications are additional build points that don't need to be compensated for. I've also gifted lots of net Zero things to PCs. If this 5 pt Contact comes with a 5 pt Watched, game on.

[Christopher]

Re: Does anyone allow Followers, Bases, etc to get Disadvantages/Complications for po

 

It seems like it isn't a Disadvantage until someone impersonates the devotee' date=' makes the devotee unrecognizable or the devoted's mothering begins to smother.[/quote']

Still not really worth a 20 Point or more, but a good point no the less

 

I too think measuring the value of a Followers/Bases/Vehilces Complication on the Character(s) buying them is the only real way to value them, that is even what the rules say.