Summoning Question

[Pizza Man]

OK, so I just got Fantasy Hero, and I'm tossing together some ideas.

 

Here's one.

Summon Soldiers (page 464 Fantasy Hero). Summons Four 86 point creatures, Slavishly devoted (2x as many tasks; +1 ¼) ---63 Active points.---

OAF Mirror (-1), Extra Time (Full Phase -1/2), Requires a Skill Roll (-1/2), Increased END (x2; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

--16 points cost to character—63 active points---

 

 

OK, does the Summoned Soldier come with the suggested equipment or does the summoner pay the cost of the armor and weapons?

 

 

The concept is of a Summoner who can summon creatures for an adjacent alternate fantasy dimension. He uses a mirror to see into their Dimension and pull them over. Slavish devotion is just part of the spell.

 

 

 

Would you just bring them over with the equipment they are wearing/carrying...or does it need to be paid for in character points?

 

Oh, and another question. If I wanted to summon other races with the same stats, would that be an expanded group of summoned creatures?

[Pizza Man]

Re: Summoning Question

 

Summoning and Spells

This is a school of magic based on a convenient alternate dimension in especially close proximity to the caster’s home dimension. It is also fraught with danger, as there are those powerful enough to cross over into this dimension and exact revenge. Hence many of these casters wear masks of utilize other magics to hide their identity.

 

The spells are mostly based off of EGO as its used to exact tasks from its victims, but a good INT is also valued.

Should a summoned servant die in this dimension he will disappear and end up in his home dimension…dead.

The better spells all involve slavish devotion. Why force the issue when you’re not going to pay them and send them back anyways?

 

The Spell Book of Brenton Woe

6 Light Spell

8 Armor Spell

10 Summon Object (Create something from nothing: Stealing from another dimension)

7 (Perk: Filthy Rich: only for what Brenton can steal from the other dimension)

16 Summon Arrows

21 Clairsentience (mega scale, perceive into a single other dinmension)

10 Invisibility (his true image appears in the alternate dimension)

16 Multipower: Summoning Humanoids (humans, half elves, elves)

2f) Summon Soldiers (4 of em!)

1f) Summon Skilled Laborers (another 4)

1f) Summon Beautiful Girls (yep. 4 of em)

 

 

Clairsentience: Sight group. Mobile perception Point (can move up to 12M per phase), Also perceive into single other Dimension. Reduced END (0 END, +1/2) Mega Scale 1M = 100 KM) (90 Active Points). OAF Mirror (-1), Extra Time (5 minutes, only to activate -1), Concentration, Concentrate throughout use of constant power (1/2 DCV, -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Requires a roll (14- roll; -1/4).

----21 character point cost---90 Active points---------

 

Light Spell

Sight group images, Reduced END (0 END; +1/2), Area of Effect 32M.

OAF Staff (-1), Only to create light (-1), Requires a Skill Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

---6 character points -------- 25 APs---------

 

Armor Spell

10 PD/10 ED. OAF Staff (9-1), Requires a Skill Roll (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Extra time (Full Phase; -1/2) Costs Endurance (only to activate -1/4).

---8 character point cost ---30 APs --------

 

Summon Object

6D6 Major Transform (Create Something from Nothing), Summons Items, food, jewels and jewelry, etc from the alternate plane. OAF Mirror( -1), Extra Time I minute (-1 ½), All or nothing (-1/2), Requires a skill roll (-1/2) , Increased endurance cost (2x END -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

--------- Character cost 10 points----60 APs-------

7 Perk Money 11 points filthy rich. (linked to Summon Object; -1/2). Only for value of items he can pull through Summon Object.

 

16 Summon Arrows 3D6 RKA Armor piercing

-----------5 arrows slam into target-- OAF Mirror( -1), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Requires a skill roll (-1/2) , No Knockback (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)

---- character cost 16 ---APs 56

 

10 Invisibility (his true image simply shifts to the alternate dimension)

Sight group, no fringe. OAF Mirror( -1), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Requires a skill roll (-1/2)

 

16 Summoning Humanoids (humans, half elves, elves) Multipower (63 Point total)

OAF Mirror (-1), Extra Time (Full Phase -1/2), Requires a Skill Roll (-1/2), Increased END (x2; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

--16 points cost to character—63 active points---

 

2f) Summon Soldiers (page 464 Fantasy Hero). Summons Four 86 point creatures, Slavishly devoted (2x as many tasks; +1 ¼). 63 APs…………12END

 

1f) Summon Skilled Laborers 4 75 point creatures. Slavishly devoted (4X as many tasks +1 ½). 62 APs………………………………12 END

 

1f) Summon Beautiful Girls with levels in Striking Appearance

4 100 point creatures, Slavishly Devoted (+1). 6o APs…………..12 END

 

I'm just having fun designing spells, I would appreciate anyone poking holes in my first attempts here. I think I did pretty good limiting the multipower to aspects of a single spell.

[Pizza Man]

Re: Summoning Question

 

Hmmm. No Comments yet.

In truth, I'm setting y'all up. There are some very interesting moral questions here.

 

This is actually a very interesting villain. He looks nice, can splash some wealth around, but is actually cold and ruthless.

--This is the personification of "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

[Old Man]

Re: Summoning Question

 

 

 

 

Would you just bring them over with the equipment they are wearing/carrying...or does it need to be paid for in character points?

 

Oh, and another question. If I wanted to summon other races with the same stats, would that be an expanded group of summoned creatures?

 

Well, avoiding the moral questions for now... If I were the GM I'd probably say the summoned warriors would come with a reasonable amount of equipment. 83 points is just not a whole lot, so adding in another 30 points of gear wouldn't make a huge difference. Especially if you're crazy enough to drop 16 cp on that spell.

 

The demihuman question is probably campaign dependent. In campaigns that are overrun with a half dozen different humanoid races it probably wouldn't cost extra, but if elves are extremely hard to find then summoning them might cost a premium.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Summoning Question

 

In most cases, I assume the 'Summon' is just forming magic into an expected shape. You aren't actually pulling a tiger, elf, or Earth Elemental from somewhere else to your location. You're just shaping magical forces into a simulacrum of another living being. So it can look like whatever you want it to, human, dwarf, elf, or otherwise. The exception would be summons with 'creature must inhabit area' or 'creature arrives under own power', which are more like 'calling' than Summons to me.

[Pizza Man]

Re: Summoning Question

 

In most cases' date=' I assume the 'Summon' is just forming magic into an expected shape. You aren't actually pulling a tiger, elf, or Earth Elemental from somewhere else to your location. You're just shaping magical forces into a simulacrum of another living being. So it can look like whatever you want it to, human, dwarf, elf, or otherwise. The exception would be summons with 'creature must inhabit area' or 'creature arrives under own power', which are more like 'calling' than Summons to me.[/quote']

True. But I was playing with drama...Imagine a school of mages that could summon the people of another dimension and make them slavishly obey...that would mean for a lot of abuse...

 

Then again, say the daughter of a high priest in this other dimension was some summoner's favorite...and the high preist goes to his diety for help. Now super intelligent divine persons are aware of this, and they discover that its not an isolated indecent. Even kings under deific protection have been compromised...

 

this could lead to an multidimensional war with direct deity involvement. What happens if a divine servant steps into the summoners world to exact revenge? Will the local deities become involved? What if an offended deity crosses the dimensional barrier himself?

 

Played right, the consequences can be world shaking...

I made another post about making Homunculi familiars....what if the process involved sucking the soul out of a person in this other dimension? a soul that by rights belongs to a god...

 

Kinda scary when you think about it

[Old Man]

Re: Summoning Question

 

I imagine the morality of summoning and abusing sentient beings would be campaign dependent. I have to admit, it just never occurred to me to use Summon to summon people instead of critters, demons, undead, elementals, or whatever.

[Midas]

Re: Summoning Question

 

I've been considering this concept for a few years now (back in 5e, using independant foci - something similar to Amberite Trumps) and I've never been able to decide if "summon" or "Teleport, use on others, with Interdimensional" is the more appro choice.

 

To me, a "summon" would be more of a fictional creature (like CHC suggested) while tport presumes the prior existance of the target.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Summoning Question

 

Well, keep in mind the mayhem that could be caused by using the Teleport UOO.

 

If the "teleported" person is just an NPC that is essentially a combat prop, then I'd go with Summon. If the power can indeed be used to 'summon' other players or important NPC's or whatever, then maybe go with the Teleport one.

[Lucius]

Re: Summoning Question

 

I've been considering this concept for a few years now (back in 5e, using independant foci - something similar to Amberite Trumps) and I've never been able to decide if "summon" or "Teleport, use on others, with Interdimensional" is the more appro choice.

 

To me, a "summon" would be more of a fictional creature (like CHC suggested) while tport presumes the prior existance of the target.

 

 

Well, let's suppose a mage has Teleport, Usable as Attack, Transdimensional.

 

He can target someone in the nearest convenient parallel dimension, let's say an Ettindam or Troll-mother, and move her - from one side of her lair to the other. Or outside her lair entirely. With enough points in Teleport, maybe he can move her all the way down the mountain to the castle and give her and the local baron's troops something interesting to do. What he CAN'T do is bring her TO HIM (assuming he wants to.) She's in another world, and there she stays, becasue Teleport can move her around in space and Transdimensional Advantage lets it reach into her space to move her around, but nothing can make Teleport move something from one space time continuum to another.

 

And all this is assuming of course that the mage has Clairsentience that's Transdimensional, or he'd never see anything to target it anyway. So the mage can watch in his crystal ball as the carnage he brought about unfolds.

 

 

So okay, suppose the mage tries a spell built as Extradimensional Movement, Usable As Attack, Transdimensional.

 

Now, the cost of this doesn't vary based on the power of the target, and some might consider that problematic. But we'll just assume that means the mage will just get the biggest, most dangerous creature he can grab - let's say that same Ettindam, she must be pretty tough given that she survived that nasty practical joke and wiped out a couple knights and some men at arms.

 

So he grabs her and transports her into his own world, and even into his own conjuring room, and hands her a map to the local Duke's palace, and says "His Grace is talking about putting a new tax on things like alchemical apparatus and thaumaturgical inks and parchment, and is even threatening to confiscate skulls, cadavers, and other necromantic items. I brought you here to go convince him that's not a good idea."

 

The Trollop says "Speaking of good ideas, it's a good idea to put me back right now."

 

The mage responds "Why would I do that?" The Ettindam eats one of the mage's legs, points out that he still has another, and offers to let him keep it if he stops asking stupid questions and gets busy putting her back.

 

When he's able to sit up again, he makes notes in his grimoire:

 

1. Need Clairvoyance, Transdimensional, to target entities in alien space time continuums.

 

2. Need Extradimensional Movement, Usable as Attack, Transdimensional, bring targetted entities into local continuum.

 

3. Don't forget!! Mind Control of sufficicient power to control target entity.

 

Turning the page, he scribes "New Top Priority Project: Research "Regrow Limbs" Spell

 

 

Starting to look like avoiding Summon is an "anti-munchkin" move. Summon will usually be cheaper as well as being easier and the "official" way to do this sort of thing.

 

 

I can, however, think of two situations in which Extradimensional Movement, Usable as Attack, Transdimensional, might be preferable to Summon.

 

One is if you're calling something so powerful, it would actually cost more to use Summon. I have not calculated where the threshold is, but I suspect if you're disturbing something that powerful you would rather keep your distance. Which brings me to the second situation....

 

If you want to "summon" something at a distance. You could stand on one side of an ocean and inflict a kingdom shattering monster on the lands on the other side of the ocean. Of course you could do the same thing, or very nearly, with Summon and a massive Linked simultaneous Teleport....

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Summon Palindromedary

[Midas]

Re: Summoning Question

 

Well, let's suppose a mage has Teleport, Usable as Attack, Transdimensional.

 

He can target someone in the nearest convenient parallel dimension, let's say an Ettindam or Troll-mother, and move her - from one side of her lair to the other. Or outside her lair entirely. With enough points in Teleport, maybe he can move her all the way down the mountain to the castle and give her and the local baron's troops something interesting to do. What he CAN'T do is bring her TO HIM (assuming he wants to.) She's in another world, and there she stays, becasue Teleport can move her around in space and Transdimensional Advantage lets it reach into her space to move her around, but nothing can make Teleport move something from one space time continuum to another.

 

 

And all this is assuming of course that the mage has Clairsentience that's Transdimensional, or he'd never see anything to target it anyway. So the mage can watch in his crystal ball as the carnage he brought about unfolds.

 

 

So okay, suppose the mage tries a spell built as Extradimensional Movement, Usable As Attack, Transdimensional.

 

Heh. Hadn't really realized there was a dif. TY.

 

Now, the cost of this doesn't vary based on the power of the target, and some might consider that problematic. But we'll just assume that means the mage will just get the biggest, most dangerous creature he can grab - let's say that same Ettindam, she must be pretty tough given that she survived that nasty practical joke and wiped out a couple knights and some men at arms.

 

So he grabs her and transports her into his own world, and even into his own conjuring room, and hands her a map to the local Duke's palace, and says "His Grace is talking about putting a new tax on things like alchemical apparatus and thaumaturgical inks and parchment, and is even threatening to confiscate skulls, cadavers, and other necromantic items. I brought you here to go convince him that's not a good idea."

 

The Trollop says "Speaking of good ideas, it's a good idea to put me back right now."

 

The mage responds "Why would I do that?" The Ettindam eats one of the mage's legs, points out that he still has another, and offers to let him keep it if he stops asking stupid questions and gets busy putting her back.

 

When he's able to sit up again, he makes notes in his grimoire:

 

1. Need Clairvoyance, Transdimensional, to target entities in alien space time continuums.

 

2. Need Extradimensional Movement, Usable as Attack, Transdimensional, bring targetted entities into local continuum.

 

3. Don't forget!! Mind Control of sufficicient power to control target entity.

 

Turning the page, he scribes "New Top Priority Project: Research "Regrow Limbs" Spell

 

 

Starting to look like avoiding Summon is an "anti-munchkin" move. Summon will usually be cheaper as well as being easier and the "official" way to do this sort of thing.

 

 

I can, however, think of two situations in which Extradimensional Movement, Usable as Attack, Transdimensional, might be preferable to Summon.

 

One is if you're calling something so powerful, it would actually cost more to use Summon. I have not calculated where the threshold is, but I suspect if you're disturbing something that powerful you would rather keep your distance. Which brings me to the second situation....

 

If you want to "summon" something at a distance. You could stand on one side of an ocean and inflict a kingdom shattering monster on the lands on the other side of the ocean. Of course you could do the same thing, or very nearly, with Summon and a massive Linked simultaneous Teleport....

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Summon Palindromedary

 

Yes, the problem with XD move lets go with useable BY others, is that there is no limit on who you can summon, assuming you have the spell. It costs no more to summon say Mab The Winter Queen than it does to summon General Toot-toot. Plug in the points and go. done.

 

OTOH, summoning Mab, if one were insane enough to do such a thing (OK, Dresden summoned the roughly as powerful Erlking, but nobody, including HD himself, says he's all that sane), would cost a huge amount of points, more than it would be conceivable that a character would be willing to pay. Going with pre 6e Independent, and getting a 67% rebate would be point crack. Cheap and feels good, but costs more than you can pay, in the long run.

 

Rather than mind control, I was considering having any summoner invest in some diplomacy skill. Find a reason why the entity being summoned would be willing to answer: "Want some pizza?" "OK, OK, Winter Knight it is, 'for the rest of my life' ".

 

Midas

(who hasn't read Ghost yet)

 

PS: Not sure I follow on the continent busting idea you finished with.