Spidey88 Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Hey, gang! I hope to be able to pick your brains briefly. I'm posting it here, since I'm unsure as to whether Steve still answers 5E rules questions... I've started running a 5E Champions game, and the session I'm preparing for involves a giant-scale, no-holds-barred, superpowered sports match (sort of football/rugby-like) for prospective members of a big-league superteam, a la The Justice League or The Avengers. Each team has 16 players, with 9 from each team on the field at any given time. The players consist of the PCs and a whole mess of NPCs, including Der Bogenschutze from Champions Worldwide (an archer, very much in the vein of Green Arrow or Hawkeye). My question is this: how exactly would his EMP arrow work? It's built as a Suppress 8d6, All Electronic Device Powers simultaneously (with a couple other disads that have no bearing on the question). Specifically, I'm trying to figure out exactly how much it will affect a powered armor user and a sentient robot on the other team. The powered armour guy seems fairly simple - he's got all sorts of abilities derived from the suit, including enhanced attributes, senses, etc. The EMP arrow would likely shut everything down in the suit briefly, perhaps until such time as he could reboot it? (As I understand Suppresses, there needs to be some sort of reasonable condition that can be met that can dispel the Suppressing effect if it's bought with 0 END, but this has the Charges limitation.) As for the robot: I'm unsure where to draw the line. Would the suppress affect most of his characteristics, as they surely qualify as "Electronic"? How should I handle this? Any and all advice as to how to adjudicate the use of this power would be much appreciated - to be honest, I don't think I've ever had a single character (or ran a game with a character in it) that used Suppress, so I'm a little fuzzy on how to use it overall. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey88 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? Umm... Anyone? Anyone at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? Sorry, I can only talk about 6E. But as far as I understand they would work realtively similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? This arrow is not a Suppress, it's a Dispel. 7) EMP Arrow: Dispel Electronic Device Powers 8d6, all Electronic Device powers simultaneously (+2); OAF (-1), Beam (-¼) Very different mechanics. Suppress works like Drain, temporarily removing a number of points equal to the result of the dice. Dispel is all or nothing. If you roll high enough, the power turns off. If not, nothing happens. So on a max roll, the arrow will turn off every "Electronic Device Power" that is 48 active points or less. A power built on 49 or more points is immune to the effect. Realistically, anything built on 30+ points is probably pretty safe here, but that may still cause some issues. That said, you could argue that a sentient robot's body is not an Electronic "Device" any more than a human brain/nervous system is, though I personally feel the intent of that power would be to do things like shut down enemy robots. Kinda depends on the build and what Disadvantages the robot has though. Does he have any EM Shielding style power defense? Though for the record, dispelling the robots powers/characteristics is probably just going to turn them off for a little while with no serious lasting harm (though it will make him quite vulnerable...). Roleplaying wise, might deal with some memory loss issues as well. Foci actually have some specific rules for being "broken" by Dispels, so the power armor guy may be in deeper trouble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? I generally build my EMPs as an RKA, Area Effect, Penetrating, only vs electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraven Kor Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? I could see the EMP as RKA; I could also see EMP as an All-or-Nothing Transform ("Working Electronics into Fried, not-working junk") And Dispel works, but keep in mind you can't "dispel a person." If a Robot is a character and not just a toaster with legs and a gun... So I think there is a case for every build; suppress would be a good way to temporarily disable all or some of a Robotic characters powers.. dispel wouldn't because it would be a stupidly cheap way of affecting said robotic character in a similar way. Dispel is great for getting rid of effects that are in play or gadgets and such, but not a great "attack" against a robotic character. Transform would work rather well on both, but I have the genetic disposition to believe that resorting to transform to simulate other effects is Morally and Ethically Wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey88 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? this arrow is not a suppress, it's a dispel. Very different mechanics. Well, count that as a giant "Whoopsie" on my part - having to identify literally thousands of mosquitoes at my job the last few days has seriously affected my focus. Thank you for catching that! My questions probably would have been the same regardless, but it seems I should dive back into the rules to see if I find anything different... That said, you could argue that a sentient robot's body is not an electronic "device" any more than a human brain/nervous system is, though i personally feel the intent of that power would be to do things like shut down enemy robots. That was part of my quandry. Special effects-wise, it makes sense; and the power description says "All electronic device powers simultaneously", and the robot is technically an electronic device... Of course, his characteristics aren't bought as powers - even if they were, his DEX and STR are pretty monstrous (way more points than the arrow could affect), though his INT and EGO aren't (and have a low enough level of points sunk into them that they could be "dispelled" if I decide they would be able to be affected). He's fully sentient, but is built pretty much as s standard PC would be - he's got the typical "affected as human and machine classes of minds", as well as a susceptibility to intense magnetic fields (further cementing the thought that this arrow should throw him for a loop). He has a power defense of 5, if memory serves - nothing major. Part of the issue for me is that he has almost no electronic "powers" - armour, life support, clinging, extra limbs, flash defense, and the aforementioned power defense - the rest is skills, characteristics (STR 50 and DEX 30, notably), and gobs of leaping and running. Though for the record, dispelling the robots powers/characteristics is probably just going to turn them off for a little while with no serious lasting harm (though it will make him quite vulnerable...). Roleplaying wise, might deal with some memory loss issues as well. My default assumption is that if he could be affected by the arrow, he'd be down for a short period of time, but would be able to reboot his systems with no long-term problems. At worst, maybe a frazzled memory for the last second or two of the fight; but he'll have at least some sort of record of having been hit with serious EM interference, putting on his guard to watch out for such things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey88 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? I could see the EMP as RKA; I could also see EMP as an All-or-Nothing Transform ("Working Electronics into Fried, not-working junk") And Dispel works, but keep in mind you can't "dispel a person." If a Robot is a character and not just a toaster with legs and a gun... So I think there is a case for every build; suppress would be a good way to temporarily disable all or some of a Robotic characters powers.. dispel wouldn't because it would be a stupidly cheap way of affecting said robotic character in a similar way. Dispel is great for getting rid of effects that are in play or gadgets and such, but not a great "attack" against a robotic character. Transform would work rather well on both, but I have the genetic disposition to believe that resorting to transform to simulate other effects is Morally and Ethically Wrong I agree in regards to the thoughts on Transforms - they are a catch-all power of last resort for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey88 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? Considering the robot's susceptibility to magnetic fields, the dispel will definitely set that off. I'm also going to assume it will at least frazzle his circuits enough to stun him if the effect roll exceeds the active points in his CON, but will otherwise leave him fairly unfazed. I'll dive back into the rules to look at Dispel, rather than Suppress (d'oh!) - I'm still open to more feedback, esp. in regards to the power-armour guy. Thank you all for the responses! I'll rep who I can. I'm pretty sure someone will have to get Bloodstone for me - or, do you accept IOU's?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey88 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? Dagnabbit - seems the description for Dispel covers things pretty clearly. Seems I should avoid thinking about GM stuff at 2 in the morning... Thanks for your time, everybody! I appreciate the feedback, even if I am a bit more of a doofus than usual right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? A robot could theoretically have a Phys Lim: Characteristics (etc) Affected By EMPs, if you want to get that picky about it. As far as Transform goes ... no. Transform should not be used as a haphazard replacement for any power construct that happens to be inconvenient at the time, no more than 'Extra Dimensional Movement to a dimension where this robot is shorted out' should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? no more than 'Extra Dimensional Movement to a dimension where this robot is shorted out' should be. With that I agree. That would require a severe transform and such a level for Transform requires Limitations befor a GM will allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? I wouldn't allow it at all, because it's the wrong power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? A robot could theoretically have a Phys Lim: Characteristics (etc) Affected By EMPs' date=' if you want to get that picky about it.[/quote'] I think a simple Limitations should be enough. -1/4 perhaps or maybe even just taking unified. I wouldn't allow it at all' date=' because it's the wrong power.[/quote'] When it is designed to work agaisnt mayor foes, yes. When it is only good vs. mook robots, not nessesarily. But that would be equally true for any NND, NND does body, or UAA power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? With that I agree. That would require a severe transform and such a level for Transform requires Limitations befor a GM will allow it. That rather depends on the GM, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraven Kor Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Re: "Electromagnetic pulse" Suppress: how to handle the effects? That rather depends on the GM' date=' doesn't it?[/quote'] She turned me into a newt; but the GM didn't approve of the build, so I got better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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