Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

[phoenix240]

Vox Populi has a powerful hypnotic voice. He can control alter the beliefs and emotional state of his audience the long and short term and influence their actions accordingly. Victims of Vox Populi's control will feel that there were convinced to do or think how he wanted but not that there influence by any supernatural and metahuman control. He seems like an incredibly effective orator and pundit to his targets. Those he fails to control just don't find him convincing. His power is not psionic in nature and only effects humans and human like beings (with a brain structure similar to humans).

 

By using this ability he can incite riots, mobs and protests of various sorts such as boycotts. Vox Populi's powers cannot cause direct damage however. and he would have a great deal of trouble convincing someone to harm themselves that wasn't already suicidal or headed in that direction. His targets must be able to both hear and understand him. He can't convince targets of blatant untruths ("The sky is green") or cause them to hallucinate.

 

A fairly straightforward power set except for one wrinkle. Vox's abilities work over radio, television, phone and other mediums. Anything that can transmit his voice fairly clearly will suffice but recording it doesn't work. His range is potentially unlimited and he can anyone and everyone that hear's his voice though he can't give separate commands to each individual unless he had someway of specfically addressing them.

[Christopher]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

A fairly straightforward power set except for one wrinkle. Vox's abilities work over radio' date=' television, phone and other mediums. Anything that can transmit his voice fairly clearly will suffice but recording it doesn't work. His range is potentially unlimited and he can anyone and everyone that hear's his voice though he can't give separate commands to each individual unless he had someway of specfically addressing them.[/quote']

Indeed this is the near impossible part. You could give him Megascale with enough for the planet and the other limitations will take care of the rest.

A reason why "I can't controll the Mars Colony from here", could be that the lag or way of transmission* somewhow alters the part of his voice that convinces people. It must be something subtle (subliminal message) in his voice, since you can't convince people with different personalities to the same thing with the same speech.

 

*they could use a coding like mp3, wich cut out the parts you can't hear consciously anyway.

[Clonus]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

Vox Populi has a power hypnotic voice.

 

Have you considered just giving him a skill level so high as to be silly with the explanation being that he is using his power to boost his skill?

[Christopher]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

Have you considered just giving him a skill level so high as to be silly with the explanation being that he is using his power to boost his skill?

The problem with a Skill aproach is, that how much you can effectively do with is depends a lot on GM-fiat.

Balabanto allowed a COM score of 26 to work like a 12d6 Mind Controll, others might not even use skills (especially interaction skills) in the first place.

[Clonus]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

The problem with a Skill aproach is, that how much you can effectively do with is depends a lot on GM-fiat.

Balabanto allowed a COM score of 26 to work like a 12d6 Mind Controll, others might not even use skills (especially interaction skills) in the first place.

 

You want to give him actual mind control for face to face confrontations with PCs. But Vox Populi is a GM controlled villain...I sincerely hope, so the GM isn't going to run him as ineffective in causing riots and protests.

[phoenix240]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

I did consider simply giving him a high skill roll but currently Interactions are a little vague in Hero System. Maybe once I get a look at the social system in the new Advanced Player's Guide I can rethink that approach.

[phoenix240]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

A little more clarification about Vox's power: He can't make a subject believe something that contradicts obvious reality in most cases. He could get them to doubt or believe something counter to even a well known fact or a deeply held belief. "The sky has turned green." if they couldn't see the sky at the time, for example. But he can't do the "Who are going to believe: Me or your lying eyes?" trick, at least not yet.

 

 

There are exceptions such as a target who is exceptionally gullible or if Vox comes up with an extremely convincing and plausible (to the target) explanation for the contradiction. Vox is a good liar and manipulator. He likes to prime his major targets with strings of twisted logic, falsified evidence and indoctrination before going for what he really wants to them to do or believe.

 

 

While invisible to the subject and most mentalists, Vox's abilities would register to soemone with enhanced hearing (ultra and infra sonic). They might not recognize what they're hearing but his voice would sound strange to them. It tends to excite and agitate dogs and other animals with an extended hearing range. People effected by Vox will demonstrate altered brain activity and even some residual "scarring" in their brain that would show up on a medical scan. So far this hasn't been dangerous or debilitating but someone with a pre existing condition might might be adversely effected and no one knows what truly long term, constant exposure might do.

[Christopher]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

How you describe it, it sounds more like a Background thing. I mean his chances to use this in Combat are 0. Everything that needs a time scale of more than a day is simply beyond the scope of the Character Sheet.

[phoenix240]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

How about an AE: Mind Control with enough reach to cover the globe but limited to people that can hear Vox's voice in manner? It would have to be IPE and possibly Indirect?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

I'd go with Limited Skill Levels ("Skills bought as Powers") in Oratory and Persuasion (and possibly a couple other related Skills) myself.

[Christopher]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

How about an AE: Mind Control with enough reach to cover the globe but limited to people that can hear Vox's voice in manner? It would have to be IPE and possibly Indirect?

Had a similar Idea. Megascaled Area of Effect.

 

I am not certain if it needs IPE. Perhaps you could just "switch" the "Mental Obviousness" with the "Obviousness for Enchanched hearing"? Both should be equally uncommon in characters for this to be a costless switch.

 

I am not certain about the indirect, but would take it just in chase.

[Balabanto]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

The problem with a Skill aproach is, that how much you can effectively do with is depends a lot on GM-fiat.

Balabanto allowed a COM score of 26 to work like a 12d6 Mind Controll, others might not even use skills (especially interaction skills) in the first place.

 

All right. That's going too far. At no point did I actually say COM worked as Mind Control. I did say that there are social cues in our society that tend to make us think in those terms, especially since most people (Especially Joe Average) are really not that smart, and tend to think with a portion of their body other than their brain.

 

I did say, at some point, that the lines of attractiveness start to blur because COM had the ability to be a "Superhuman" ability score where a 25 COM was 8x as beautiful as a normal human, 30 at 16x, and so on.

 

Now put this into RATIONAL terms. Somewhere around here, the human mind LOSES the ability to perceive attractiveness at this level logically. Have you ever actually seen anyone 32x (COM 35) or 64x (COM 40) as beautiful as a normal human?

 

This is why Comliness was removed from the game and replaced with Striking Appearance with a header.

 

The real way to build this power is with a low grade cumulative Mind Control with Megascale and power limitations. I believe it's also a -1/4 to -1 have a limit on the level of effect and types of effects one can get. (GM's discretion here) So he could have a 1d6 Mind Control, Cumulative, Megascale (The Planet), Uncontrolled, Constant, x16 (4 doublings), Area of Effect 64m, Sliding Scale, Add Penetrating or 2x Penetrating if you are a rules lawyer or play in a ridiculously high powered game.

 

As for power limitations, Targets must be able to hear him (-1/2), Incantation (-1/4), Limited Effect (-1/4),Based on Persuasion Roll (-1/2) (If he's not convincing, he can't do anything, if he's drunk as a skunk, he really can't convince anyone to do anything other than bring him another drink, etc.), and Concentration 1/2 DCV. If you're sitting there making speeches, it's unlikely that you're going to move. In a ridiculously high powered game, or a game rife with limitations, you could also add "Not in airless environments" since he might have the opportunity to be outside a space suit.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

Take it easy gang ... this thread is about helping another poster, not starting flame wars ... let's all take a step back and think why you're posting here, okay?

[Christopher]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

How about applying "affected as Hearing" Limtiation to the MC?

And of course "target must understand Language spoken" (wich will make affecting the entire planet effectively impossible, unless he uses a mystical language every being can understand even if he never learned it).

[phoenix240]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

IIRC, Mind Control already requires that the target be able to hear and understand commands, unless the Telepathic Advantage is purchased?

[Christopher]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

IIRC' date=' Mind Control already requires that the target be able to hear and understand commands, unless the Telepathic Advantage is purchased?[/quote']

Right, forgot that part: "The character must have some way to communicate the order to his target, whether by voice or other means; otherwise, he cannot establish Mind Control." 6E1 253

That would mean he is effectively targetting everybody with it, but only those who hear and understand him are affected.

 

Edit:

When he ever get's access to a form of Language understandable by everyone, how about building it as:

"Telephaty, Megascale for Entire Planet, Affect as Hearing instead of Mental Group, only to send Messages" to relay the Command?

[phoenix240]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

Cool, I wanted to be sure that wasn't one of those little changes between editions that can slip by.

[Christopher]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

That still means his main problem could not be Range, but actually using a language everyone in his target area understands. That also means a Planetwide Range is mostly useless, because he has no language to affect the whole planet at once.

[phoenix240]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

It's not going to be that much of an issue in play as it unlikely to come up. He speaks English and most of his targets will speak Englishl in the area he makes his appearance. The range is more of a contingency and thought excercise since he could theoretical broadcast his voice or make a phone call to anywhere in the world and there's not a generic "Targetted by Hearing" Advantage that I know of.

[Christopher]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

The Main problem is that you want to use mundane means (radio, telephone) to relay your superpower.

I've only recently started to learn about it, but I can say for certain: A telephone does not even transmitts every frequency out of the human voice range. It only transmitts the most revelevant parts of the human voice, so any special power would be lost.

Even CD-quality transmission looses a lot, especially all higher frequencies. When it is not somehow nessesary for a system to transmit a certain frequency, it won't go that far. it only makes the entire thing more complex and expensive than it needs to be.

I'll try to get you some numbers on this...

[phoenix240]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

It's a superpower that's going to be used in a world where people can catch bullets in their teeth and focus their "chi" to let them punch people from several yards away. Realism isn't a big issue. I just wanted to know a good way to represent the ability in Hero System terms.

[phoenix240]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

Some other abilities that Vox might have

 

2 minute hate: The ability to cause mobs of angry, potentially violent people to assemble, protestr or even riot after a short speech. Could be a Summon or just an effect of his others abilities (KISS).

 

Smear Campaign: He could wreck a characters reputation and public image either stripping them of certain Perks or inflicing various social Limitations and Reputations even some Hunted and Physical Disadvantages. Might be a Transformation (but that might be kludgy).

 

Toxic Meme: He could "infect" the general populace with an idea, concept or command that would gradually spread of its own accord, altering the structure of society. Probably more of a plot device effect than a mechanic but it may be workable as a power.

[Lucius]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

All right. That's going too far. At no point did I actually say COM worked as Mind Control.

 

The quotes emphasis added.

 

The problem was that Comliness could mean different things to different people. And people had very different ideas of what it should mean.

 

20 COM=Normal Human Max.

 

Therefore, since everything works on the scale of +5 points=2x as beautiful, you have issues when you hit 40+.

 

First of all, Old people DIE! That's right, when that super hot, or super gorgeous guy or girl walks past a crowd of geriatrics, this beauty is incomprehensible to them, as it is to most other people. Unfortunately, people like this have weak hearts and not the greatest physical constitution.

 

There's a point where this is not comprehensible by normal people. I was SO glad Comliness was removed from the game in 6th. Aaron Allston had a player with a character called Lorelei with a COM of 70. He published this character in a supplement called Strike Force. I'm sure most of you are familiar with it. Now, I refused to believe this character could exist. A COM score that high was so alien to me, so incomprehensible that I thought COM needed to be limited for player characters. The truth of the matter was that the very existence of a published character with a score THAT high created a bizarre "Comliness War" that I had to regulate in my home game for years.

 

Second of all, Beauty is subjective. See my adventure Pretty Hate Machines for just how subjective "Beauty" can be at http://www.blackwyrm.com

 

The problem was that people ROLEPLAYED the effects of seeing someone with a comliness that high. In a group of good roleplayers, this WAS it's own superpower, it WAS incredibly powerful and unbelievably useful, and people believed that it worked that way.

 

It was the justification for all kinds of other perks, talents, and abilities. (Money, Contacts, Positive Reputation) People could get people to do things just like pretty people can in real life. Only it was FAR cheaper than the equivalent amount of mind control, persuasion skills, etc. That's why Comliness is bad. Because it meant different things to different people that wreaked havoc with the rules. Not because it should or shouldn't exist.

 

 

The issue that you're not seeing is that there was a 20 point disadvantage people could take called "Normal Characteristic Maxima." By definition, that meant that anything above this is superhuman. Therefore, a 30 COM is 4x as attractive as the maximum level of normal human attractiveness. (Let's call 20 VCOM Playboy Centerfold level attractiveness, with airbrushing)

 

The problem with this is that it cost .5 per point. There are tons of situations where COM 26 was more powerful than 12d6 of mind control. 12d6 of Mind Control costs 60 points. COM 26 cost 8. That's the discrepancy. Plain and simple.

 

And keep in mind, all this because not everyone looked at comliness the same way. Now that you have to define your striking appearance, everyone knows what you're reacting to. When we converted to 6th in my game, COM got converted to striking appearance. This helped people out a lot.

 

But most importantly, the thing that it did was prevent using comliness to simulate mind control because it works in real life.

 

Perhaps I should acknowledge that Balabanto is technically correct to say that he did not say COM works "like Mind Control." Some of his previous statements imply it works much better. Lots of emphasis added.

 

I don't know what kind of world you run, but most straight men who aren't too intelligent think with their shvantz. For getting information, this is better than having the right skill set. You don't even need Charm/Persuade/Seduction if your PC's can ROLEPLAY through it.

 

The reward of good roleplaying notwithstanding, the logical consequence of Alicia Keys batting her eyelashes at Joe Moron and saying "Joe, tell me where the bad guys are" shouldn't require a roll, because a 10 INT is AVERAGE.

 

I tend to treat IQ as a straight x10 modifier. This means Albert Einstein is a genius with about INT 18, and characters with superhuman intelligence are fairly superhuman. 23 is ungodly brilliant, and above that is possible insanity.

 

 

Link

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/84780-Superhuman-women-less-attractive-in-6th-Edition?highlight=mind+control

 

Take it easy gang ... this thread is about helping another poster' date=' not starting flame wars ... let's all take a step back and think why you're posting here, okay?[/quote']

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm posting in response to a Psychological Complication that compels me to point it out when I see someone contradict themselves.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that we could probably find more.

[Christopher]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

Some other abilities that Vox might have

 

2 minute hate: The ability to cause mobs of angry, potentially violent people to assemble, protestr or even riot after a short speech. Could be a Summon or just an effect of his others abilities (KISS).

Yes, sommon could be the best. But what type/level of people does he call with this? I mean, is there a chance that he calls the 12 man, 175 Point Anti-Superhuman Swat team that way or will it be only random 100 point normals at max?

 

Smear Campaign: He could wreck a characters reputation and public image either stripping them of certain Perks or inflicing various social Limitations and Reputations even some Hunted and Physical Disadvantages. Might be a Transformation (but that might be kludgy).

How hard/easy is the use for him? How long will the game effects last?

 

Toxic Meme: He could "infect" the general populace with an idea' date=' concept or command that would gradually spread of its own accord, altering the structure of society. Probably more of a plot device effect than a mechanic but it may be workable as a power.[/quote']

Well, there is Sticky, uncontrolled and 0 END. The main way I would do something like contracting diseases.

[Christopher]

Re: Vox Populi's Hypnotic Voice

 

Regarding the duration of the "Smear Campaign":

In addition to Transform there is a short-term variant: Change Environment. With the Rules from APG 82 it can be used to impose Limitaitons, Complications, or take Advantages.

Granted, this only last while he pays endurance.

 

What I see as the main problem for his powers, is that they are totally useless in battle and might not even have a direct effect during a given session. Even the 2 Minute Hate needs obviously preparation time in the Minutes.

I would propably reason from effect to mechanic and build most of his powers as a VPP of Folowers/Summons, or a lot of (group) contacts.