Converting: "Winged Him"

[CrosshairCollie]

Trying to come up with a reasonable conversion of an ability from an old d20 gunslinging/western supplement called 'Winged Him'. Essentially, X times per day, you can change an attack from 'missed' to 'dealt minimum damage'. The catch, of course, is that you can choose do to this after you've determined the attack result, something that HERO can't really do as far as I know, without incredible amounts of handwaving.

 

All I can think of off the top of my head is a Naked Advantage of One Hex Accurate on a relatively small amount of RKA, with a limitation that it automatically hits the shoulder or upper arm location. You'd still have to declare it before the attack, but it seems a potentially decent way to ensure you do at least a little damage.

 

Other options appreciated.

[phoenix240]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

The latest APG has a Reroll power that might be what you're looking for.

[phoenix240]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

The only way I can think of to "fake it" and I'm not sure if this is even rules legal is:

 

xd6 RKA Trigger: Earlier RKA misses, AE:1 Hex accurate (the closest Hero comes to "Never misses"), x number of Charges, Invisible Power effects (since it looks like the earlier attack "winged" the target, Attack always does minimum damage.

 

Assuming this is even feasible how it would interact with the sfx of some defenss (like combat luck) is an excersise for the GM.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

What happens? You have a (say) 1 1/2d6 RKA, and if you miss, and decide you would rather have hit, you do at least 1 Body and you can do that 8 times a day?

 

OK...

 

Winged him!: Naked Advantage on 1 point of Killing attack (5 active points): Area Of Effect Accurate (4m Radius; +1/2), Penetrating (+1/2) for up to 5 Active Points, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset, Two activation conditions apply simultaneously; You miss when you really wanted to hit; +1/4) (6 Active Points); 8 Charges (-1/2) 6 Active points, 4 Real points

 

Not perfect (they can still dive for cover) but close enough, pretty cheap, and a nice straightforward build. The addition of penetrating means that you can cause SOME damage even if the target is wearing armour, or even someone who has combat luck: CL is hardened, not impenetrable. You can use the ability up to 8 times a day and it does not cost any additional END (due to the charges). The attack always does 1 Body and 1 to 3 stun (unless the target has impenetrable defences).

 

I don't think you need IPE as there is no doubt where the attack came from, or how it is working.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

But if you used IPE they couldn't percieve it and thus couldn't choose to Abort to Dive for Cover. Of course if they Dove for Cover from the original shot instead of just Dodging for some reason it would possibly still apply.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

How many levels would you need to make almost certain of hitting someone. In a heroic games, IME, CVs run around 5. So you hit DCV 5 with OCV 5 62% of the time. To bring that roll down to 16 or under to hit you need 5 levels, to maintain that for exception people, or just someone dodging you probably need 8 levels and so, to be sure, you probably buy 10 levels. If this is with your best gun then you can get those for 2pt per point and you are looking at 20 points where dive for cover does not matter.

 

You limit this with charges (-1/2, cost now 13 points) and I would go for a no concious control variant where the levels are used to achieve a hit where there can be a maximum of 1 BODY, 1 STUN damage (varies but I'd be happy with -1 for most guns, making the cost 8).

 

This is double the cost of Sean's and possibly less elegant but the levels can be used to manipulate to hit and damage to get the effect. it means that highly dextrous opponents might escape but only through hiding or dodging, not by diving for cover...

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

But if you used IPE they couldn't percieve it and thus couldn't choose to Abort to Dive for Cover. Of course if they Dove for Cover from the original shot instead of just Dodging for some reason it would possibly still apply.

 

True. As an aside, I'm always a bit confused as to how you are supposed to be able to tell if a given attack is AOE or not, given that it might have identical sfx to a non-AOE attack until it actually hits. Making the whole thing IPE only ups the cost to 10/7, and side steps the difficult questions.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

Well, in cases of things like flamethrowers, grenades, and shotguns it's somewhat obvious (though a shotgun could be loaded with slugs). When you get into super-powers or magic spells it's a little less clear.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

How many levels would you need to make almost certain of hitting someone. In a heroic games, IME, CVs run around 5. So you hit DCV 5 with OCV 5 62% of the time. To bring that roll down to 16 or under to hit you need 5 levels, to maintain that for exception people, or just someone dodging you probably need 8 levels and so, to be sure, you probably buy 10 levels. If this is with your best gun then you can get those for 2pt per point and you are looking at 20 points where dive for cover does not matter.

 

You limit this with charges (-1/2, cost now 13 points) and I would go for a no concious control variant where the levels are used to achieve a hit where there can be a maximum of 1 BODY, 1 STUN damage (varies but I'd be happy with -1 for most guns, making the cost 8).

 

This is double the cost of Sean's and possibly less elegant but the levels can be used to manipulate to hit and damage to get the effect. it means that highly dextrous opponents might escape but only through hiding or dodging, not by diving for cover...

 

Doc

 

I believe DFC works against any attack, not just AOEs. The only way to really avoid DFC as an option is to have an enormous AOE that the target is unlikely to be able to get out of the area of. Or some sort of DEX drain (assuming they don't DFC out fod the way of it ) Basically anyone can avoid (almost) any attack just by making a Dex roll at -1 and then lying down 2 metres away from where the opponent just hit. It's a good job no one knows any of this stuff. Can you imagine mooks cottoning on?

 

"So, er, I'm, like 14 DEX and Photon is like 42 DEX with eight combat levels and, if he's trying to hit me, all I got to do is roll 11- on 3d6 and he misses? Man, there's a dozen of us - this fight's going on all night!"

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

I believe DFC works against any attack' date=' not just AOEs. [/quote']

 

And of course, you are right. I remember a big conversation a long time ago about this. It kind of makes sense (or it did to me eventually!).

 

:-)

 

 

Doc

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

Why not just make it a smallish AoE one hex attack (as suggested), but Link it to the main attack, and give it the limitations "Does 0 Damage Unless Main Attack Misses" and "Only Works Up To X/day" (which I would value at half the limitation of charges).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

Why not just make it a smallish AoE one hex attack (as suggested)' date=' but Link it to the main attack, and give it the limitations "Does 0 Damage Unless Main Attack Misses" and "Only Works Up To X/day" (which I would value at half the limitation of charges).[/quote']

 

Hmmm, not bad ...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

Why not just make it a smallish AoE one hex attack (as suggested)' date=' but Link it to the main attack, and give it the limitations "Does 0 Damage Unless Main Attack Misses" and "Only Works Up To X/day" (which I would value at half the limitation of charges).[/quote']

 

The problem is you can decide whether to use a charge after you've missed, which is why the trigger seemed important (and it is arguable whether that is a legitimate use of trigger in any event, as it is sort of retrospective), but you are definitely on to something, as you are not using charges, just limiting the number of successful uses per day.

 

It is a slightly messy build, but defintiely do-able.

 

One point I'll be making, because I have a nasty, suspicious mind: these bullets are not poison coated (or use some other sort of 'carrier' attack) are they?

[Steve]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

Couldn't you use Heroic Action Points to convert a miss into a hit? Maybe declaring it to be minimum damage gets a reduction in the number of HAPs spent?

[phoenix240]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

Couldn't you use Heroic Action Points to convert a miss into a hit? Maybe declaring it to be minimum damage gets a reduction in the number of HAPs spent?

 

Only if your GM is using HAP and agrees to that use of them.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

The problem is you can decide whether to use a charge after you've missed, which is why the trigger seemed important (and it is arguable whether that is a legitimate use of trigger in any event, as it is sort of retrospective), but you are definitely on to something, as you are not using charges, just limiting the number of successful uses per day.

 

It is a slightly messy build, but defintiely do-able.

 

One point I'll be making, because I have a nasty, suspicious mind: these bullets are not poison coated (or use some other sort of 'carrier' attack) are they?

 

No (or not yet, at least ... if the player's thought of that, he hasn't expressed it aloud).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Converting: "Winged Him"

 

Couldn't you use Heroic Action Points to convert a miss into a hit? Maybe declaring it to be minimum damage gets a reduction in the number of HAPs spent?

 

What's a Heroic Action Point?