Presence attack and defence

[phillier937]

I'm working recreateing a previous write by someone up that showed +3d6 presense and 25% damage reduction for presense.

 

For +3d6 presense I guess you could just add 15 points of PRE with the limitaion only for attacks.

 

I'm not sure 25% damage reduction PRE is allowed. Would it make more sense to do damage negation?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Patrick

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

Since Presence and Presence Attacks only real effect on combat has to do with Initiative order/resolution I would strongly suggest against anything that over-complicates its use in those situations.

 

It should really only come in to play once per given combat encounter.

 

I'd really need to know what Special Effect is being simulated before I could give useful build specific advice.

[Lucius]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

I'm working recreateing a previous write by someone up that showed +3d6 presense and 25% damage reduction for presense.

 

For +3d6 presense I guess you could just add 15 points of PRE with the limitaion only for attacks.

 

I'm not sure 25% damage reduction PRE is allowed. Would it make more sense to do damage negation?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Patrick

 

It would be easiest to just add 15 pts to PRE. That helps defense and offense. Getting fancy will probably result in paying too much for the benefit. Plus the hassle during play of having to apply a 25% reduction to PRE attacks.

 

That said, I have to disagree with Hyper Man. PRE is the Hero analog of morale, and should probably be rolled for whenever the person running the game thinks there is a reasonable chance of an individual or group breaking and running, surrendering, etc.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

+25% Palindromedary Enhancement

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

Technically it's not combat if one side runs away.

[Vulcan]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

Yeah, but unless they have an 'automatic escape' power you're probably still remaining in phases for the chase.

[Christopher]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

I agree whit Lucius.

the easiest way is just having more PRE. Well, unless the GM allows Presence attacks to go against EGO.

 

Presence Attacks are usually not that dangerous weapons/attacks and mostly rely on GM-interpreation/GM-allowance, wich is why they have no defenses at all.

One of the APG's holds rules to make "Based on PRE" Mental Attacks and I think you could do a PRE-Attack "Superpower" using Mental Powers vs PRE. When you do that, of course Mental Defense and Mental Damage Reduction would counter it....

[phillier937]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

The character is just a big ugly brick - kind of like Dr. Jekly in the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I'm thinking the original write up was trying to make someone a little scary and unable to get scared off. I agree in adding PRE is probably simplest. Maybe 15 points + 15 more with limitation - only for defense?

 

Personally I rarely use presence attacks in my games.

 

Since Presence and Presence Attacks only real effect on combat has to do with Initiative order/resolution I would strongly suggest against anything that over-complicates its use in those situations.

 

It should really only come in to play once per given combat encounter.

 

I'd really need to know what Special Effect is being simulated before I could give useful build specific advice.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

Is this a Player Character or NPC?

I ask because it is rare to have PC's actually 'fail' a moral check. The worst they should suffer is just the various negative combat effects of a Presence Attack.

 

But if it's a core part of the character here's a Talent I used for my 5e version of Green Lantern (JLA 350 Project in signature below):

 

14 Fearless

Notes: FH page 106 - Power Defense 20 + Ego Defense 20 (plus EGO/5) Only To Resist Fear (-2).

[phillier937]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

NPC

 

I like your fearless option better.

[steriaca]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

Mental Defence normaly has no protection aganst PRE Attacks, right? Then add a +1/2 advantage to Mental Defence called "Works Aganst PRE Attacks". Of course, the Player must get GM premition first (NPCs automaticly have premition).

[Christopher]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

Mental Defence normaly has no protection aganst PRE Attacks' date=' right? Then add a +1/2 advantage to Mental Defence called "Works Aganst PRE Attacks". Of course, the Player must get GM premition first (NPCs automaticly have premition).[/quote']

How about PRE, Only to Defend agaisnt PRE attacks (-1/2) instead?

Same price, no GM allowance required and way harder to miss/overlook when looking up you PRE-Defense.

[steriaca]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

Humm... Hear are some ideals on PRE

 

New Power: Presence Defence.

Duration: Constant

Cost: 1 point for 2 points of defence.

Rules: Presence Defence (PrD) reduces PRE Attacks by 2 points per point bought before the attack is compared to PRE for the attack. Yes, you CAN Harden it.

 

Ideal 1: PRE and Armor Piercing (YELD!)

Normaly, you can't buy AP for PRE (as it makes no sence). The GM can alow it if he is running with the PrD power. The GM might also use it in another way (especaly if he is not playing with PrD)...it can halve all PRE (or INT or EGO, depending on campain and house rules) which have been bought with the limitation "Only to defend aganst PRE Attacks". Notes: If you alow buying AP for PRE, you also must alow buying Harden for PRE, INT, and/or EGO also. If it affects all of PRE, INT, and/or EGO, then it MUST be bought simuler to how STR is bought with an advantage.

 

Ideal 2: PRE and Penatrating (YELD!)

Again, normaly you can't buy Penatrating for PRE (as it makes no sence). The GM can alow it if he is running with the PrD power. The GM might also use it in a simuler way to AP above (with each 'body' of PRE Attack subtracted from the PRE, INT, or EGO bought with "Only to defend aganst PRE Attacks" before comparing the total attack to the afected stat). Notes: If you alow buying Penatrating for PRE, INT, and/or EGO, then you also must alow buying Harden for PRE, INT, and/or EGO also. If it affects all of PRE, INT, and/or EGO, then it MUST be bought simuler to how STR is bought with advanrages.

 

Ideal 3: PRE and Autofire (STOP!)

*blink* I got to be crazy to think of this. If alowable, this gets the extra +1 advantage for shure. Now...how to handel autofire PRE Attack? Take the dice of PRE in the attack with all the pluses and minuses and roll them. Note the result, then repeat till all the attacks have been rolled. Then add up the results, divide them by the number of autofire shots, and there is your avrage PRE Attack total to compair to whatever stat the GM decides. This is a "STOP!" ability because it takes up time.

 

Ideal 4: Damage Reduction; PRE (STOP!)

Again, this is normaly not buyable. But if alowed, use the 'resistant' cost table for it. As a GM, if the thought of someone buying 100% Damage Reduction for PRE scary, you can make a new table of even hier cost (25% cost 30 points, 50% cost 60 points, 75% cost 120 points, 100% cost 240 points). You can also alow the buying of the +1/4 advantage Irreducible for the stat.

 

Ideal 5: Piercing and PRE (STOP!)

If you want, as GM, you can alow the power of Piercing to affect PRE/comparsing stats. Piercing is from page 113 of the Advance Player's Guide. It should cost 4 Charater Points to reduce one point of PRE, INT, and/or EGO for defence of PRE Attacks. If your playing with PrD, it cost 3 Charater Points to reduce that defence by one instead.

[Tasha]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

Presence Defense is listed on 6e1 178 in the Sidebar for Characteristics as powers. It is purchased as Presence with the Limitation "Only to protect against Presence Attacks (-1)"

 

The same build is also official for 5e and earlier. I'll let you go in 5e or 5er's index to look it up.

 

For Presence Attacks Keep It Simple!

 

It is possible and preferable to be able to do more than one Presence attack per encounter. Remember that there are diminishing returns on Presence attacks. Also there are uses for it beyond "run away or I'll beat you to a bloody pulp". It can also be used to affect who the bad guys will attack (ie the Taunt). It allows bricks to get a badguy to attack them instead of the squishy Energy Proj or Mentalist. It's great for Crowd control ie getting the spectators to move to safety, though this can be done with an Oratory roll. Keep it fun.

 

Tasha

[Christopher]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

The same build is also official for 5e and earlier. I'll let you go in 5e or 5er's index to look it up.

 

For Presence Attacks Keep It Simple!

True words!

 

PRE attacks are not like Attack Powers. They don't have any lasting effect. They are not inherently cumulative, they way all atack powers (- Mind Controll/Mental illusion) are.

Even if you buy an advantage for PRE, using them with the Advantage costs you an attack Action (as per APG I) as opposed to the free action for normal PRE attacks.

[steriaca]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

 

PRE attacks are not like Attack Powers. They don't have any lasting effect. They are not inherently cumulative, they way all atack powers (- Mind Controll/Mental illusion) are.

Even if you buy an advantage for PRE, using them with the Advantage costs you an attack Action (as per APG I) as opposed to the free action for normal PRE attacks.

 

OK. I agree with that ideal. You can't use a advantaged PRE Attack unless you preforn a multi attack with them. Understood.

[steriaca]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

Presence Defense is listed on 6e1 178 in the Sidebar for Characteristics as powers. It is purchased as Presence with the Limitation "Only to protect against Presence Attacks (-1)"

 

 

Well, I don't consider "incresing something to make things harder" a defence. But I guess I am spoiled on defence as 'reducing damage' ideal (and yes, I know PRE Attacks do not do 'damage' in the normal sence). Looking back, I guess my ideal on Autofire PRE Attack sucks. I still ponder, should I be able to use AP with PRE? If so, exactly what should it be able to do? If PrD is not buyable, then should it reduce in half PRE (or INT or EGO) bought with the limitation "Only to protect agenst PRE Attacks (-1)"? Should Penatrating be able to alow some PRE through? What is your view on this.

[Christopher]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

Well' date=' I don't consider "incresing something to make things harder" a defence. But I guess I am spoiled on defence as 'reducing damage' ideal (and yes, I know PRE Attacks do not do 'damage' in the normal sence). Looking back, I guess my ideal on Autofire PRE Attack sucks. I still ponder, should I be able to use AP with PRE? If so, exactly what should it be able to do? If PrD is not buyable, then should it reduce in half PRE (or INT or EGO) bought with the limitation "Only to protect agenst PRE Attacks (-1)"? Should Penatrating be able to alow some PRE through? What is your view on this.[/quote']

You can apply Does Body and (propably) a Custom "Does Stun" Advantage. Applying "Does KB" is even an APG I example. And once it does damage, you can make this damage harder to resist.

 

While PRE, only to resist is not a defense it is as close to a defense as you need to go. The only other attacks that threshold set by a characteristic are Mind Controll, Mental Illusion and Transform. Transform is cumulative by default, the other two have a way bigger effect (and are not dependant on GM interpretaion or allowance).

So unless the GM allows Cumulative to be applied to PRE, I doubt you need anything else than a higher treshold.

[steriaca]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

You can apply Does Body and (propably) a Custom "Does Stun" Advantage. Applying "Does KB" is even an APG I example. And once it does damage, you can make this damage harder to resist.

 

While PRE, only to resist is not a defense it is as close to a defense as you need to go. The only other attacks that threshold set by a characteristic are Mind Controll, Mental Illusion and Transform. Transform is cumulative by default, the other two have a way bigger effect (and are not dependant on GM interpretaion or allowance).

So unless the GM allows Cumulative to be applied to PRE, I doubt you need anything else than a higher treshold.

 

Humm...I created "The Fear" as part of The Black Triangle in the New Curcle(sp?) thread way back. I origanaly gave him a nakid advantage for his PRE (Armor Piercing and Penatrating), but removed them because it was illegal. So I guess there is no way beyond the Mind Control power to make someone more fearsome or impresaved without buying tons of PRE with the limitation "Only to PRE Attack", right?

[Christopher]

Re: Presence attack and defence

 

Humm...I created "The Fear" as part of The Black Triangle in the New Curcle(sp?) thread way back. I origanaly gave him a nakid advantage for his PRE (Armor Piercing and Penatrating)' date=' but removed them because it was illegal. So I guess there is no way beyond the Mind Control power to make someone more fearsome or impresaved without buying tons of PRE with the limitation "Only to PRE Attack", right?[/quote']

What you describe sounds like his power should be a lot more reliable than PRE-attacks, so you should go for Mental Powers in the first place.

 

There is only so much certinity about PRE attacks (you can easily get -4d6 or +4d6 Situational Modifiers, dependign on GM). But with Mind Controll you know what you have.