mayapuppies Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Hello all, Do any of you know how a priest would go about founding a new order within the Catholic Church? Or know where I could begin researching such a thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Hello all, Do any of you know how a priest would go about founding a new order within the Catholic Church? Or know where I could begin researching such a thing? Mother Teresa singlehandedly founded a new order of nuns. Not the same, but might be a good place to start research. AT A GUESS, (1) Identify a need/mission that no current order fills, (2) convince a bishop or higher to sponsor the new order (3) work up the bureaucracy. I thought a new order had been established recently ("recently" in terms of the Church, within the past 50 years or so) for the Anglican/Episcopalian priest who had converted to Catholicism, but a 3 minute google search could not confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Thanks McCoy. Your points cover pretty much what I thought as well. Thanks for the leads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Granted, this is Wikipedia, but it looks like a decent place to start your research from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_institute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Mother Teresa singlehandedly founded a new order of nuns. Not the same, but might be a good place to start research. AT A GUESS, (1) Identify a need/mission that no current order fills, (2) convince a bishop or higher to sponsor the new order (3) work up the bureaucracy. I thought a new order had been established recently ("recently" in terms of the Church, within the past 50 years or so) for the Anglican/Episcopalian priest who had converted to Catholicism, but a 3 minute google search could not confirm. As a member of a Catholic Order, a couple other things are important: 1. Divine Intervention: Most Saints had visions and miracles accompanying the founding of their order. Mother Theresa had both. 2. The Founder Must be a Saint for the Order to Survive long past the death of the founder. The pope declares a Saint. Sometimes this takes centuries. 3. The Order must have a rule (rule of practices, including prayers, fasting, mission and other spiritual practices). This includes works of charity like feeding the poor, but not always. The Order of Templar's mission was to defend Catholic Lands. However, in general, they will always feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc. as this is all Catholic's mission. 4. The Founder does not need to work up the hierarchy. They simply need to have a successful mission. Religious Orders fall under a different chain of authority than a diocese (Church region headed by a bishop). They report directly to the pope's congregations, circumventing diocesan bishops. 5. The pope can approve an order directly. This happened with Saint Francis of Assisi. 6. Sometimes the founder is a bishop, such as was the case of Saint Francis de Sales. However, even he must still seek papal approval for them to operate outside his diocese. 7. Bishops give permission for orders to practice in his diocese (Church region), sometimes they request them to work in their diocese. However, Orders can circumvent this with Canon Law (e.g. Papal Approved Law), which says that orders have a right to exercise their mission (i.e. apostolate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Do any of you know how a priest would go about founding a new order within the Catholic Church? Or know where I could begin researching such a thing? Just out of curiosity, what is your new order's mission going to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted February 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order A player in one of my Kamarathin campaigns is playing a priest and has decided that he is not pleased with the offerings of the main Church or of the other Orders. So he is wishing to establish his own. I've never encountered this before, so I'm researching to see how I would write up the process for the Church of Asuna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Just out of curiosity' date=' what is your new order's mission going to be?[/quote'] I belong to an existing order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order A player in one of my Kamarathin campaigns is playing a priest and has decided that he is not pleased with the offerings of the main Church or of the other Orders. So he is wishing to establish his own. I've never encountered this before, so I'm researching to see how I would write up the process for the Church of Asuna. Awesome. For a military order, The Templars would be his template, unless he wants a military and healing order, then it would be the Hospitallers of St. John. These are the closest to an adventuring order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order He may want to be careful of emulating certain orders after what happened to the Templars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Oh, I won't be following the Catholic model completely. It's just the only religious organization that I am aware of that has orders and such, so I'm just using it as a guideline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savinien Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Doesn't this sound like the Greatest Player of All Time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order He makes me work too much. I'm seriously thinking of just killing the character off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Oh' date=' I won't be following the Catholic model completely. It's just the only religious organization that I am aware of that has orders and such, so I'm just using it as a guideline.[/quote'] Here is a short way to do it, Hero Games Roleplaying wise: 1. Give him a quest to prove his religious piety. 2. After he successfully completes the quest, have him pay the points for the followers. 3. If his character fails in his piety, have his order begin to disperse. They will become fighters, instead, if he does not repair for his failings. 4. If he becomes a hero of the faith, link the number any power-level of order members to his character's devotion. Disadvantages to Follower Costs: Religious requirements (-1/4 to change to fighters and -1/2 to completely disperse if you allow him to repair his failings); Fidelity (an additional -1/4 for ten minutes of daily devotions, -1/2 for twenty minutes of devotions requirement). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order He may want to be careful of emulating certain orders after what happened to the Templars... The Hospitallers had no such failings, and in fact, saved Malta from invaders. Keep in mind, the Templars were found innocent of their crimes, by the Pope and offered a general pardon to cover any problems they may have encountered by the King of France. Of course, messages moved more slowly in those days, and it was too late to save them. Who cannot be inspired by the Templars, numbering about one hundred with five hundred other knights, routing 26,000 of Saladin's forces? That victory goes down in the history of legends. Saladin left the field with 1/10th his original forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Doesn't this sound like the Greatest Player of All Time? He is very ambitious and original. The stuff of Saint Cuthbert of Greyhawk. If you are him, that will be three Hail Marys for deception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order The Hospitallers had no such failings' date=' and in fact, saved Malta from invaders. Keep in mind, the Templars were found innocent of their crimes, by the Pope and offered a general pardon to cover any problems they may have encountered by the King of France. Of course, messages moved more slowly in those days, and it was too late to save them.[/quote'] They were however, guilty of the crime that got them in trouble in the first place: having lots of wealth that the king needed, without the force to defend it. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order They were however, guilty of the crime that got them in trouble in the first place: having lots of wealth that the king needed, without the force to defend it. cheers, Mark No, they were not. Ask historians about whether it was the king's greed for their international banking concerns, or that they were actually guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Um...... he said they were guilty of having money. Not whatever charge the king trumped up to get at that money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Um...... he said they were guilty of having money. Not whatever charge the king trumped up to get at that money... Money is not a sin in the Catholic Church. Love of money is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order You're missing the point. Still. He's being mildly tongue in cheek. Sort of like saying "I'm guilty of loving you," you don't actually mean that you're GUILTY of anything. Or, you are "guilty" of using an internet forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order While I'm not a huge conspiracy nut, I have to admit I enjoy exploring theories concerning the Templars. Lots of very rich history there. I would honestly not be surprised to learn that the heresy the Templars were accused of stemmed from something they uncovered digging through the Temple that didn't line up with current doctrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order You're missing the point. Still. He's being mildly tongue in cheek. Sort of like saying "I'm guilty of loving you," you don't actually mean that you're GUILTY of anything. Or, you are "guilty" of using an internet forum. He can speak for himself. He is obviously truly guilty of not being clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order While I'm not a huge conspiracy nut' date=' I have to admit I enjoy exploring theories concerning the Templars. Lots of very rich history there. I would honestly not be surprised to learn that the heresy the Templars were accused of stemmed from something they uncovered digging through the Temple that didn't line up with current doctrine.[/quote'] They were not guilty of a heresy. They were not guilty at all. Their funds were envied and lusted after by the king. The whole process was tainted by his desire to have their financial resources, which he quickly stole after his courts found them guilty. The Key emphasis: his courts. The courts of high justice were the courts of the king. What proof do you have they dug something up? A speculation becomes a theory when it has numerous evidence to back it up. Keep in mind, the pope pardoned them, it does not sound like the pope had any animus toward them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order They were not guilty of a heresy. They were not guilty at all. Their funds were envied and lusted after by the king. The whole process was tainted by his desire to have their financial resources' date=' which he quickly stole after his courts found them guilty. The Key emphasis: [i']his courts[/i]. The courts of high justice were the courts of the king. What proof do you have they dug something up? A speculation becomes a theory when it has numerous evidence to back it up. Keep in mind, the pope pardoned them, it does not sound like the pope had any animus toward them. Honestly I'd have to do quite a bit of digging to come up with decent cites, but just working from memory the rough theory goes that among the treasures recovered from the temple of Solomon (Which gave them much of the wealth coveted by the French crown) were early Christian writings hidden in the temple to preserve them, and these represented a potentially very real threat to the lifestyle of the rather corrupt religious officials associated with the French Court. It's been a very log time. I recall it was from the time when I was researching connections between the Templars who escaped the French crackdown, Robert the Bruce's Excommunication, and Scottish Rite Masons. I'm not even saying it's all that solid a theory, more that it wouldn't surprise me given the politics of the day. The Templars got unfairly hosed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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