Markdoc Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order He can speak for himself. He is obviously truly guilty of not being clear. Guilty as charged! You are also guilty of literalism - a crime which will get you in much trouble on the internet! cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Celt Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Depending on the scope of the character's divisin with the current structure, the new order can be developed with approval from above (such as the Templars or Hospitallers). Or if the character is extremely unsatisfied with the current structure, a schism can result, such as Martin Luther nailing his theses to the church door, and let the schism begin. In a setting where gods can actually talk to you, things can get a little weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order In a setting where gods can do actually talk to you' date=' things can get a little weird.[/quote'] Fixed it for you. In theory, the gods CAN talk to anyone, in practice they seldomly do, and it seems that no two mortals hear them saying the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order He can speak for himself. He is obviously truly guilty of not being clear. When you are the only person who does not get it, and several people are trying to explain it or simply pointing out to you that you are not getting it, perhaps you should consider the possibility that the lack of clarity is not in the original communication, but in yourself. Lucius Alexander Or you could blame the palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order I have heard much the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Perhaps someone should make himself clear and understand the variances in cultural humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Literalism is not guilt. It is an interpretive method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order If the GM wants a war on his hands. I do not think that was the original intent, as he asked for details on a new order, not a new religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted February 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order I am firmly under the impression that Orders are to organized religion as regional dialects are to a language. Eventually they may form their very own religion/language. This can start a war, and organized religion does love its wars, but it doesn't have to. That being said, Asuna is, first and foremost a god of war and even though the Church has become more political than crusading, it certainly wouldn't be against branding the priest a heretic in order to save the status quo. It also doesn't help that the priest is looking to establish his new order in a duchy controlled by a break away asunite order that would be this worlds version of the Taliban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order I am firmly under the impression that Orders are to organized religion as regional dialects are to a language. Eventually they may form their very own religion/language. This can start a war, and organized religion does love its wars, but it doesn't have to. That being said, Asuna is, first and foremost a god of war and even though the Church has become more political than crusading, it certainly wouldn't be against branding the priest a heretic in order to save the status quo. It also doesn't help that the priest is looking to establish his new order in a duchy controlled by a break away asunite order that would be this worlds version of the Taliban. Plenty of role-playing fodder there! With regard to the original question, there are - as far as I know - no actual rules for founding an order. Benedict founded a monastery, and his rule was widely copied, giving rise to the Benedictines. The pope made them a formal order in 1883 - about 1300 years after their founding. St Francis had already attracted a following and had drafted a rule before he went to Rome to seek formalisation of his order - and when he relinquished leadersip of it later and founded the tertiaries, he didn't seek papal approval. Ignatius on the other hand, travelled to Rome and got papal blessing for the Jesuits, before really founding the order: it had only been about a dozen guys up until that point. And orders were suppressed - the Jesuits are a good example - when they were perceived to be out of hand or undesirable. So it'd be perfectly in keeping with history for a reforming priest of Asuna to draft a rule to "clean up" the local church. If it gained traction he could either try to spread it back to the mother church, establish an order ... or he could end up branded a heretic. A lot of heresies started with good intentions! Cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted February 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order This is all great information, thank you all so very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Perhaps someone should make himself clear and understand the variances in cultural humor. Perhaps someone should learn to admit when they didn't get the joke, and move on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order I am firmly under the impression that Orders are to organized religion as regional dialects are to a language. Eventually they may form their very own religion/language. This can start a war, and organized religion does love its wars, but it doesn't have to. That being said, Asuna is, first and foremost a god of war and even though the Church has become more political than crusading, it certainly wouldn't be against branding the priest a heretic in order to save the status quo. It also doesn't help that the priest is looking to establish his new order in a duchy controlled by a break away asunite order that would be this worlds version of the Taliban. No, Orders are just that. They do not found a new religion, they just found a charism, or spirituality within the same religion. The Taliban are still muslim, and probably closer to the original Islam than most other muslims. Keep in mind, what Muhammad did in the beginning, the Taliban are doing now. If you want to split the order from the original religion, you can. However, Catholicism does not love wars. The Just War Doctrine is very stringent. You need to study the reason why the wars happened, not just that they happened. If your family was being murdered, raped and enslaved, I am sure you would not just sit by. At least, I hope you would not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Perhaps someone should learn to admit when they didn't get the joke' date=' and move on?[/quote'] Perhaps, someone should study Sociology and culture, and then comment instead to trying to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order The Taliban are still muslim, and probably closer to the original Islam than most other muslims. Keep in mind, what Muhammad did in the beginning, the Taliban are doing now. Not according to many distinguished scholars of Islam, or all Sufis. The Taliban, like other offshoots of the original Wahhabi movement, claim to be "Salafists" in the sense of being originalist Muslims. Shiites, of course, reject the idea that even the old-time Salafists were following the Islam of Muhammed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Perhaps' date=' someone should study Sociology and culture, and then comment instead to trying to blame.[/quote'] Not blaming, just friendly advice. Generally when someone who's been part of a community for a long time explains that another member of the same community was making a joke to a newcomer to the community, the newcomer can safely assume it was in fact a joke. Which you didn't. Let me put it this way: This is the culture of the board: If you have a misunderstanding with someone, it can generally be cleared up with a few kind words. If you take offense at something a poster did not intend to be offensive, and their intent is made clear to you -- either by themselves, or by someone who knows them through long association on the board -- then you don't continue to snipe at them. When someone's friend explains their meaning to you (a meaning which was pretty clear in the first place, mind you), you don't jump on that person and toss an insult out. You ever hear of live and let live? Perhaps someone hit a hot button for you in this thread. When that happens, you ask them what they meant by what they said, and if they didn't intend to give offense they will usually apologize. Then you move on. This board is one of the best behaved communities you're going to find on the web. Just remember, this is a board dedicated to a GAME. Games are supposed to be fun, right? Just relax and have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savinien Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Take your worthless net arguments to a new thread. This one is all about me! (Or that player I mean with the Priest not liking the current status quo and wanting to change it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order I think said priest is setting himself up to live in interesting times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order Hello all, Do any of you know how a priest would go about founding a new order within the Catholic Church? Or know where I could begin researching such a thing? There's nothing particularly complicated about it. The founder gathers a following or a group of like-minded peers, decides to become a club with a constitution, and then applies to the Pope for certificition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heatmonkey Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order From my limited understanding of the Holy Orders is that they tend to start based on what is considered to be a human need, not just a temporal one. Temporal changes are short lived and their teachings tend to die away. The hope of the Order is to root the change or philosophy into the heart of the Church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order I am firmly under the impression that Orders are to organized religion as regional dialects are to a language. Eventually they may form their very own religion/language. This can start a war, and organized religion does love its wars, but it doesn't have to. That being said, Asuna is, first and foremost a god of war and even though the Church has become more political than crusading, it certainly wouldn't be against branding the priest a heretic in order to save the status quo. It also doesn't help that the priest is looking to establish his new order in a duchy controlled by a break away asunite order that would be this worlds version of the Taliban. Yes, that first analogy is well said. Sounds like the player will have a war on his hands. He better keep on his toes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrilliantHelm Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Re: How to found a new Catholic Order From my limited understanding of the Holy Orders is that they tend to start based on what is considered to be a human need' date=' not just a temporal one. Temporal changes are short lived and their teachings tend to die away. The hope of the Order is to root the change or philosophy into the heart of the Church.[/quote'] Yes, orders are founded based on need. They are in service to the Church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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