Christopher Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 I have the idea for a character (Superheroic) that can create just about any Melee or Hand held weapon (Swords, staffs, spears and all the variantions makind created over the time) or Tool with combat use. His way of fighting includes changing through the weapons in the middle of attack series, to get an advantage or do somethign totally unexpected (this is mostly Special Effect for high OCV/DCV and the powers). At first I thought about using a (0-phase to change) VPP to create the weapons, but then a realised that ultimatively all the weapons boil down to a few Base Powers and that a Multipower with Flexible Slots might be better to simulate this. So far I identified the following basic Weapon "effects": HTH-Attack, 0 END HKA, 0 END Extra OCV/DCV Reach STR, 0 END, Variable Limitation (for weapons that help with maneuvers like trip) Now I run into an issue: what about unusual weapons like Lassos? Are they built with Reach + STR for Grab, an Entangle, or something totally different? And if something as simple as a lasso makes problems, what about other weapons? Are there more weapons I could not simulate with the list I have above? And if so, how are they built? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner Either a bog standard gadget VPP, or a MP with enough slots to cover the bases sufficiently. Also, you might want to look at Physical Manifestation & Lingering, or the Object Creation power to explore other possibilities / deal w/ more unusual "tools". And as to rope, yeah, one of the classically hard things to model in the HERO System. At some point common sense has to kick in; a rope does rope like things without needing to be built as a entangling swinging climbing choking suspending pants-securing tethering taut but pliable wunderbar multipower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner Either a bog standard gadget VPP, or a MP with enough slots to cover the bases sufficiently. Also, you might want to look at Physical Manifestation & Lingering, or the Object Creation power to explore other possibilities / deal w/ more unusual "tools". And as to rope, yeah, one of the classically hard things to model in the HERO System. At some point common sense has to kick in; a rope does rope like things without needing to be built as a entangling swinging climbing choking suspending pants-securing tethering taut but pliable wunderbar multipower. I think you missread. Because you mostly tell me, what I have already written down I never thought about non-comabt uses, but let's asume the character is unable to creat anything that can't be effectively used in battle (to give a measureable, positive effect on his fighting abilties) and mostly unwilling to use his creations as tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner Well, or validating I concur with your approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner So what I WOULD do is this, note I am leaving dice out of it as technicaly you would need to include things like nukes, which as a GM would be a huge NO EB/RKA +1/4 variable F/X (any weapon), +1 1/2 Variable F/X (up to +3/4); Physical Manifestation/OAF, 0 END/Charges, Custom Lim (only to imitate real weapons -1/2) HA/HKA: +1/4 variable F/X (any weapon), +2 Variable F/X (up to +1); Physical Manifestation/OAF, 0 END/Charges, Custom Lim (only to imitate real weapons -1/2) The custom lim makes it so you can't have a dagger do the full damage the power allows, so a 4 slot MP would basicaly cover 90% of your needs. I would also probably add a CE slot with similar modifiers for your smoke/flash bomb type things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner So what I WOULD do is this' date=' note I am leaving dice out of it as technicaly you would need to include things like nukes, which as a GM would be a huge NO[/quote'] I do not regard nuclear weapons as "Melee or Handheld". And frankly, if they work correctly at HTH-range my character has problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner Point, I missed that, but the idea I was getting at was that without campeign limits I would not put the dice on it. Otherwise, was it helpful for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner Point' date=' I missed that, but the idea I was getting at was that without campeign limits I would not put the dice on it. Otherwise, was it helpful for you?[/quote'] Already had the idea with the Multipower and can't really read what this means: +1/4 variable F/X (any weapon), +2 Variable F/X (up to +1) Two times variable F/X? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner I think the second one was supposed to be Variable Advantage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner It was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner I think the second one was supposed to be Variable Advantage... The question is, what to do with it. A lot of the example weapons on 6E2 204 have Increased Stun multiple (wich is redudant, as I can just choose HTH attack instead). A few have can be thrown but I am heavily consdiering to not include the weapons to be thrown regulary. But I can see the use for Armor piercing. but as I just figuered out, Varaible Advantage has an negative effect on the DC calculation: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/88975-Variable-Advantage-and-DC-calculation Add in that advantages are mandatory and it's propably better to make this as a naked Advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner Christopher, I think you've mostly got it covered there. With the addition of Variable Advantage and Variable Special Effect, I think it will be hard to find a weapon you can't simulate. I agree lasso would be reach and STR for Grab. If you run across a new exotic effect you want ("Towel." "What do you do with a towel?" "Cover their face. Flash attack." ) it's cheap to add stuff to a multipower. Lucius Alexander Variable Palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner Why not buy martial arts with your weapons (you probably will anyway) and that allows you to buy elements for both ranged and HtH attacks. It also allows you to add 'Weapons Element', which would be a good way of simulating a lasso - it is basically a ranged grab, which you can get through the MA and then add to with your MP. In this case a 'lasso' is simply a particular way of setting up your MP (which should probably be built with mainly variable slots rather than fixed ones). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner Why not buy martial arts with your weapons (you probably will anyway) and that allows you to buy elements for both ranged and HtH attacks. It also allows you to add 'Weapons Element'' date=' which would be a good way of simulating a lasso - it is basically a ranged grab, which you can get through the MA and then add to with your MP. In this case a 'lasso' is simply a particular way of setting up your MP (which should probably be built with mainly variable slots rather than fixed ones).[/quote'] Martial Arts? Not if I can avoid it. It's a horrible mix of advantages and limitations. I want to get as far aways as I can from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner OK, buy a MP with Blast, TK, RKA, HKA and HTH Attack and a MP containing Naked Advantages as slots. What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner OK' date=' buy a MP with Blast, TK, RKA, HKA and HTH Attack and a MP containing Naked Advantages as slots.[/quote'] Naked Advantages are special Powers and thus don't belong into a Multipower. They are as far as I am concerned an alternative to a Multipower, the same way "Useable as additional Form of Movement" is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner Sean, you can't combine powers from seperate MultiPowers. Or did that change in 6E? My memory isn't always the best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner Sean' date=' you can't combine powers from seperate MultiPowers. Or did that change in 6E? My memory isn't always the best...[/quote'] That too is true for 6E. Of course two slots in different Multipowers could add to the same thign bought outside of the Multipower. Afaik you can't even use the aid of one of your Multipowers on another of your Multipowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner That I definitely don't remember. Do tou have a reference for that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner 6E1 398, "No Combining of Power Frameworks" Goes on on Page 399 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner That was what the 'What?' was for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner Maybe add Change Environment, - X Dex or fall, for weapons that can trip Lucius Alexander Palindromedary mounted weapons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Re: Ultimate Weapon Summoner Maybe add Change Environment' date=' - X Dex or fall, for weapons that can trip[/quote'] There is a Trip Standart Maneuver, 6E2 83. It's -1 OCV, -2 DCV. I might use Martial Arts, but only at the +0 DCV, +/- 0 OCV, +/- 0 DCV level to get some maneuver on a better level. Or to have maneuvers that aren't fully possible with standart rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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