Triad

[phoenix240]

The character has three bodies shared by one consciousness. She experiences the world through all of them simultaneously. What one learns, "they" all learn. Essentially, she's one person with three bodies. While she's aware of what's happening to all her bodies, she doesn't have the Corsican Twin problem where if one body is incapacitated by pain or some other means they all are. However, a psionic (or similar sfx) power directed at one body can effect the others since "they" all have one mind (and soul).

 

 

I have given the character:

 

 

Duplication with limitations to reflect she can not recombine.

 

 

Clairvoyance with all Senses with enough range to cover the planet only to see though the senses of the Duplicates. Technically, it should be be Universal ranges but the chances of this character's bodies every being separated by more than planetary distance is vanishingly small; small enough to be hand waved should it ever happen. Its also fully Transdimensional.

 

 

Mind Link brought as Psychic Bond, no limit on Range and Dimension.

 

 

A Physical Disadvantage that reflects the shared nature of the character's mind.

 

 

Is there anything I'm forgetting? Is there anything else that would be required to mechanically model this character? Or any other ability that might stem from her nature that you can think of?

[Barwickian]

Re: Triad

 

A high level of Teamwork skill to represent their/her co-ordination if more than one form is in the same combat?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Triad

 

Not forgetting, but an interesting power suggests itself:

 

Of One Mind: +2 Overall (24 Active Points); Requires 2 members of the Triad to be unconscious or concentrate completely (0 DCV, unaware of surroundings) (-3/4) 24 active points, 14 real points

 

Basically the mind fully manifests in one body leaving the other two virtually comatose (also works if they are ACTUALLY comatose!), so that one body becomes more skilful at everything as there is less distraction. It also means that once two of them get taken out in a fight the remaining one becomes much more dangerous, which is nice. The custom limitation is -3/4, which is half the limitation for concentration at the same level (0 DCV, unaware of surroundings).

[phoenix240]

Re: Triad

 

A high level of Teamwork skill to represent their/her co-ordination if more than one form is in the same combat?

 

 

That's a good idea. Thanks

 

 

Not forgetting, but an interesting power suggests itself:

 

 

Of One Mind: +2 Overall (24 Active Points); Requires 2 members of the Triad to be unconscious or concentrate completely (0 DCV, unaware of surroundings) (-3/4) 24 active points, 14 real points

 

 

Basically the mind fully manifests in one body leaving the other two virtually comatose (also works if they are ACTUALLY comatose!), so that one body becomes more skilful at everything as there is less distraction. It also means that once two of them get taken out in a fight the remaining one becomes much more dangerous, which is nice. The custom limitation is -3/4, which is half the limitation for concentration at the same level (0 DCV, unaware of surroundings).

 

 

 

 

Cool, I like it!

 

 

Should I get the Clairvoyance Uncontrolled, Continuous? I think otherwise she'd have to take an attack action to change "views" and that doesn't seem to fit her sfx.

[phoenix240]

Re: Triad

 

So far the Clairsentience is the most expensive thing. Its cost feels out of scale with its usefulness.

[Christopher]

Re: Triad

 

Not forgetting, but an interesting power suggests itself:

 

Of One Mind: +2 Overall (24 Active Points); Requires 2 members of the Triad to be unconscious or concentrate completely (0 DCV, unaware of surroundings) (-3/4) 24 active points, 14 real points

 

Basically the mind fully manifests in one body leaving the other two virtually comatose (also works if they are ACTUALLY comatose!), so that one body becomes more skilful at everything as there is less distraction. It also means that once two of them get taken out in a fight the remaining one becomes much more dangerous, which is nice. The custom limitation is -3/4, which is half the limitation for concentration at the same level (0 DCV, unaware of surroundings).

The APG I has a few pages on Combined Characters (Body Affecting: Combining). There might be something intersting.

For example, each of them jsut having one OSL, UOO (one person), Concetration.

 

So far the Clairsentience is the most expensive thing. Its cost feels out of scale with its usefulness.

What Limitations have you one it?

And do you actually need Clarisentience? How about just Rapid on thier Mind Link Instead, since they share information one body percieves very fast?

 

About the only reason for Clairsentience is that she could move one body (whose senses are blindedn) using the sense of another. And even that never goes to the point where she counts as having targetting sense lockup (because Clairsentience can't be used as targetting sense - ever).

It is not far to asume that she never trained "remote controlling" one body and thus is limited to what two people with Mind Link could tell each other.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Triad

 

This isn't an homage to the specific character or anything, it's just modeling a concept seen in comics sometimes; the fact that it's pretty similar is a coincidence / convergent evolution.

 

Having said that, I did this character a while back for the HERONet Initiative

 

Trinity

 

This character is a duplicator who makes two identical duplicates and they coordinate together for stacking benefits. Here are his duplication specific abilities, but if you follow the link you can see the full character.

 

Third Time's the Charm

71 1) Three's A Crowd: Duplication (creates 2 400-point Duplicates), Rapid Duplication (can create 2 Duplicates per Half Phase) (+1/4) (106 Active Points); Costs END (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Three Or Zero (Must spawn both Duplicates, cannot spawn only one; -1/4) 11

27 2) Coalesce: Healing Simplified 3d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action to reset; +3/4) (67 Active Points); Only When Recombining With Duplicates (-1), Self Only (-1/2) 0

2 3) Synched Up: Teamwork 14- (5 Active Points); Only With Duplicates (-1)

4 4) Four Fists Are Better Than Two!: HA +2d6 (10 Active Points); Only When Striking Same Target Simultaneously With One Duplicate (-1), HA (-1/2) 1

3 5) Six Fists Are Better Than Four!: HA +2d6 (10 Active Points); Only When Striking Same Target Simultaneously With Two Duplicates (-2), HA (-1/2) 1

3 6) Four Eyes Are Better Than Two: +2 PER with all Sense Groups (6 Active Points); Only When Making A PER Check To Notice Something Simultaneously With One Duplicate (-1) 0

2 7) Six Eyes Are Better Than Four: +2 PER with all Sense Groups (6 Active Points); Only When Making A PER Check To Notice Something Simultaneously With Two Duplicates (-2) 0

 

 

I didn't bother with any clairsentience or mind link as it didn't suit my conception of this particular character (he's really focused more on being a martial artist with a gimmick than on being a duplicator), but if I were to add something along those lines I would go with Mindlink alone and simply convey information via that conduit from one to another rather than making each duplicate actively employ clairsentience using other duplicates as a sensory point. As you've no doubt noticed, the cost can become prohibitive to the effect, and the complexity of the mechanics can become disproportionate to the basic idea being modeled for most purposes.

 

Of course, if you were making a character focused on being an observation platform / reconnaissance / scout going full bore on the sensory abilities and using duplication in conjunction with clairsentience as a clever twist...now that might be an interesting way to go for such a character. Context is king, after all, and that's one of the great things about the HERO System -- with different givens, design goals, and SFX even characters using the same or similar base effects can be very different.

[phoenix240]

Re: Triad

 

The APG I has a few pages on Combined Characters (Body Affecting: Combining). There might be something intersting.

For example, each of them jsut having one OSL, UOO (one person), Concetration.

 

 

What Limitations have you one it?

 

What one sees all see: Clairsentience (Sight, Hearing, Touch And Smell/Taste Groups), 2 Perception Points, Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 6" per Phase), Perceive into any dimension, Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Increased Maximum Range (66,015,625"; +1 3/4) (300 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses almost all of its effectiveness (Only through Duplicates; -2), Only Through The Senses Of Others (-1/2)

[Bloodstone]

Re: Triad

 

What one sees all see: Clairsentience (Sight' date=' Hearing, Touch And Smell/Taste Groups), 2 Perception Points, Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 6" per Phase), Perceive into any dimension, Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Increased Maximum Range (66,015,625"; +1 3/4) (300 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses almost all of its effectiveness (Only through Duplicates; -2), Only Through The Senses Of Others (-1/2)[/quote']

 

I don't have the time to punch it all into HD, but it's almost certainly cheaper to us a two slot MP. Then you have a close range shared senses with a small amount of increased range and a longer range shared sense using Megascale.

 

I would probably ditch Inherent myself. Seems excessive.

 

When I did this for the Tempest Twins, I believe I also had the power Linked to their Mind Link. I figured shutting down the (much lower point cost) Mind Link would effectively disrupt their sense sharing.

 

Also, I didn't buy Teamwork with limitations, instead preferring to buy Teamwork normally so they could use it with other teammates.

 

I did however buy Overall levels that only worked when they were collaborating on something

[Sean Waters]

Re: Triad

 

I am not sure that Clairsentience is needed at all. you have Mind link which allows communication, and what does CS add to that? Well TECHNICALLY if one dupe sees something the others can only get what it is from a description but you can get around that with a couple of dice of telepathy, only useable through MindLink, which would allow memory exchange and is so much cheaper. I'd probably handwave it as a GM, and I'm a real grouch.

[Christopher]

Re: Triad

 

Since "Only through senses of others" is capped at -1 (for a specific being), it would only get more expensive.

 

I think Clairsentience is the wrong way to go. It's focussed to much about "Scrying Spell" - it has an invisible perception point, for example. It's designed to look into an area, without endangering yourself or being noticed.

 

The duplicates are much more obvious than any magicians familiar/small anymal and she is already putting herself (or a very relevant part) at risk by taking a look. All will use the same skills, have the same rolls, etc...

So I don't really see what Clairsentience can do what Mind Link to your Side Kick could not (when the sidekick has exactly the same build). Plus Clairsentience behaves unintuitively regarding sense affecting powers (see 6E2 14).

[Bloodstone]

Re: Triad

 

I am not sure that Clairsentience is needed at all. you have Mind link which allows communication' date=' and what does CS add to that? Well TECHNICALLY if one dupe sees something the others can only get what it is from a description but you can get around that with a couple of dice of telepathy, only useable through MindLink, which would allow memory exchange and is so much cheaper. I'd probably handwave it as a GM, and I'm a real grouch.[/quote']

 

Frankly, I've felt for a long time that the ability to Share Sense should be an adder to Mind Link.

 

Also an adder that you can apply to your sense groups... essentially expanded rules for Transmit.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Triad

 

Frankly, I've felt for a long time that the ability to Share Sense should be an adder to Mind Link.

 

Also an adder that you can apply to your sense groups... essentially expanded rules for Transmit.

 

That would be elegant, but the trouble is you get some clown summoning an invisible intangible demon with planetary teleport and flight and mind link and getting full Clairsentience for less than 10 points. Maybe Clairsentience is just too expensive.

[Christopher]

Re: Triad

 

That would be elegant' date=' but the trouble is you get some clown summoning an invisible intangible demon with planetary teleport and flight and mind link and getting full Clairsentience for less than 10 points. Maybe Clairsentience is just too expensive.[/quote']

Inherent Desolid is at least 40 Real Points

Inherent Sight Invisibility at least 20.

 

Even with the 1/5 modifiefer for summon/duplication/follower this won't be near 5 points. And Sean said nothing about the value of the adder being 5

[Sean Waters]

Re: Triad

 

It does not need to be inherently invisible or intangible. For that matter it probably does not need much more than shrinking: a few levels of that and you will be hard enough to spot, or your demon will, and it can buy down most of its physical and combat characteristics to get extra spend. I'm not going to build it just to prove a point, but it probably can be done, or close enough. The point is that you have to look at the knock-on effects of such changes because you can be damn sure someone will.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Triad

 

Ha, in fact for 50 points you could probably get a decent Clairsentience for your pet demon and if it can mind link to you and transmit senses, well...

[phoenix240]

Re: Triad

 

I went with Clairvoyance because I thought it better represented her special effect: literally existing in more than one body at once. She isn't communicating or sharing things with two created doubles. All three are her bodies and she exists in all them simultaneously, experiencing everything each body does al the time, even if its Stun or semi conscious. That's also the reason I purchased the powers as Innate outside of a Multipower so she couldn't have her consciousness Adjusted, its just how she is or have to a make active choice to switch slots if/when one of her bodies moved beyond the base powers range.

[phoenix240]

Re: Triad

 

Triad

 

 

Player:

 

 

Val Char Cost

10 STR 0

12 DEX 6

14 CON 8

10 BODY 0

15 INT 5

20 EGO 20

18 PRE 8

14 COM 2

 

 

5 PD 3

5 ED 2

3 SPD 8

5 REC 0

40 END 6

30 STUN 8

 

 

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

2" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 76

 

 

Cost Power

6 Strong Mind: Mental Defense (10 points total)

 

 

The Three who are one

 

 

37 1) Three bodies, One mind: Duplication (creates 2 159-point Duplicates); Cannot Recombine (-0)

 

 

86 2) what one sees all see: Clairsentience (Sight, Touch, Hearing And Smell/Taste Groups), 2 Perception Points, Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 6" per Phase), Perceive into any dimension, Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Increased Maximum Range (66,015,625"; +1 3/4) (300 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses almost all of its effectiveness (Only through Duplicates; -2), Only Through The Senses Of Others (-1/2)

 

 

25 3) What one knows, all know: Mind Link , Specific Group of Minds, Any dimension, No LOS Needed, Number of Minds (x2), Psychic Bond, Inherent (+1/4) (50 Active Points); Only With Others Who Have Mind Link (-1)

 

 

13 4) Flawless Symmetry: +2 Overall (20 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Only when Acting with Duplicates; -1/2)

 

 

10 5) Three act as one: Teamwork 20- (21 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Only with Duplicates; -1)

 

 

30 Psionic Powers: Multipower, 30-point reserve

2u 1) Mental Grapple: Mind Control 6d6 (30 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2)

3u 2) Mind Probe: Telepathy 6d6 (30 Active Points)

1u 3) Psi Surge: Ego Attack 3d6 (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2)

 

 

8 Synergistic Enhancement: +4D6 Telepathy (adds to Base) (20 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Only When in Physical Contact with Both Duplicates; -1), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2)

8 Synergistic Enhancement: +4D6 Mind Control (adds to Base) (20 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Only in the presence of Duplicates; -1), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2)

8 Synergistic Enhancement: +2D6 Ego Attack (adds to Base) (20 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Only in the presence of Duplicates; -1), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2)

Powers Cost: 237

 

 

 

 

Cost Skill

3 Bureaucratics 13-

3 Conversation 13-

3 Criminology 12-

1 Forensic Medicine 8-

3 Interrogation 13-

3 KS: Criminal Law 12-

3 KS: Civil Rights Law 12-

3 KS: Metahuman Law 12-

1 KS: Genetic Engineering 8-

1 KS: Psionics 8-

3 Oratory 13-

3 Persuasion 13-

4 PS: Attorney 13-

3 Research 12-

Skills Cost: 37

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 350

 

 

Pts. Disadvantage

15 Hunted: Genesis 8- (Mo Pow; Capture)

5 Hunted: The Purity Crusade 8- (Less Pow; Harshly Punish)

10 Physical Limitation: Mental Attacks all her bodies as if they are one. (Infrequently; Greatly Impairing)

5 Physical Limitation: Unusual Physiology requires specialized medical treatment (-2 to Medical and Biological skills without proper background/complimentary) (Infrequently; Slightly Impairing)

10 Reputation: Artificial Lifeform, 11-

5 Reputation: Outspoken civil right activist, 8-

10 Psychological Limitation: Hatred of bigots and bullies (Uncommon; Strong)

10 Psychological Limitation: Code against killing (Uncommon; Strong)

15 Psychological Limitation: Outspoken, won't tolerate injustice. (Common; Strong)

15 Psychological Limitation: Treats clients and friends as DNPC (Common; Strong)

Disadvantage Points: 100

Base Points: 250

Experience Required: 0

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Triad aka: Jenny Trois isn't meant to be a combatant or a superhero. She works as a civil rights lawyer and political activist focusing on the rights and protection of artificial lifeforms. She was originally created as part of an experiment to develop a psi based neural net computer system.

[Christopher]

Re: Triad

 

I went with Clairvoyance because I thought it better represented her special effect: literally existing in more than one body at once. She isn't communicating or sharing things with two created doubles. All three are her bodies and she exists in all them simultaneously' date=' experiencing everything each body does al the time, even if its Stun or semi conscious. That's also the reason I purchased the powers as Innate outside of a Multipower so she couldn't have her consciousness Adjusted, its just how she is or have to a make active choice to switch slots if/when one of her bodies moved beyond the base powers range.[/quote']

You mean she is able to percive what happens with one body, even if it is K.O.?

What if all her Bodies are K.O.?

What if somebody kills that body or throws it into a incenerator after it is K.O.?

[phoenix240]

Re: Triad

 

You mean she is able to percive what happens with one body, even if it is K.O.?

What if all her Bodies are K.O.?

What if somebody kills that body or throws it into a incenerator after it is K.O.?

 

Not exactly, a character is "semi conscious" when they're at less than 1 but more then -10 Stun. GM's discretion if you can perceive anything going on around you at that point. The same would apply to Triad's bodies. To put it another way, perceiving through her all her bodies at once is a natural and effortless for Triad as seeing out of either eye is for a normal human being.

[Christopher]

Re: Triad

 

Not exactly' date=' a character is "semi conscious" when they're at less than 1 but more then -10 Stun. GM's discretion if you can perceive anything going on around you at that point. The same would apply to Triad's bodies. To put it another way, perceiving through her all her bodies at once is a natural and effortless for Triad as seeing out of either eye is for a normal human being.[/quote']

I would propably chalk that up to Special Effect. Or just take a +1/4 too +1 Advantage on the Mind Controll.

 

Overall it is a scenario so unlikely to have any game effect, that even an advantage would seem as "too much" for it.

[phoenix240]

Re: Triad

 

Mind Control? I assume you mean Mind Link?

 

I don't feel that Mind Link is the right Power to represent her special effect and theme. She is not talking to her different bodies, she is them. She experiences things through them. For example if one of them is in an area with something that reeks it wouldn't be one body say to the others "Something smells here." and describing it but the character experiencing it directly. "I smell something putrid."

 

To my mind, Mind Link better represents the first, Clairsentience is best for the second. Another example if a Wizard had a Mind Linl with their familiar owl they're limited to the owl's ability to describe/understand what it sees and communicate that back to them but if they have Clairsentience "Only through the senses of familiar" its like they are there themselves and can use their own ability to interpret the data.

[Christopher]

Re: Triad

 

Yes I meant Mind Link.

 

To my mind' date=' Mind Link better represents the first, Clairsentience is best for the second. Another example if a Wizard had a Mind Linl with their familiar owl they're limited to the owl's ability to describe/understand what it sees and communicate that back to them but if they have Clairsentience "Only through the senses of familiar" its like they are there themselves and can use their own ability to interpret the data.[/quote']

The difference is, that that the owl has different skills/point of perception. While each of her bodies has access to the same Skills and informations.

Also the owl preserves the "inobvious" part of Clairsentience. The owl is much less "obvious" as observer than the magician would be, when sitting in the same tree. But no matter wich body she chooses, it would still be obvious that she is observing.

 

I don't see why Mind Link SFX can't be "of one Mind" and mean the actualy sharing of sensory impression, rahter than "talking and describing".

 

Perhaps a differnt approach helps: What if she was a robot? What powers would two robots need to directly share visual/audio information (not it's interpretation) to each other?

[phoenix240]

Re: Triad

 

Yes I meant Mind Link.

 

 

The difference is, that that the owl has different skills/point of perception. While each of her bodies has access to the same Skills and informations.

Also the owl preserves the "inobvious" part of Clairsentience. The owl is much less "obvious" as observer than the magician would be, when sitting in the same tree. But no matter wich body she chooses, it would still be obvious that she is observing.

 

It's only "obvious" if you know she has three bodies. Otherwise, you know some one is over there watching. But if you no about Magi and familiars an animal paying an unusual amount of attention is going to be suspect too. So I don't think that disproves my opinion. Someone, even some one allot like you describing something to you is going to be different from experiencing it directly, IMO.

 

I don't see why Mind Link SFX can't be "of one Mind" and mean the actually sharing of sensory impression, rather than "talking and describing".

 

I don't feel that is what the Power represents. It usually used to describe communication (even heavily secure radio transmissions) and it's not instantaneous.* It may just be a matter of taste.

 

*Talking technically takes no time but story wise there will be a different and there's a logical limit mechanically. You can't rattle off the Gettysbury Address between Phases.

 

Perhaps a differnt approach helps: What if she was a robot? What powers would two robots need to directly share visual/audio information (not it's interpretation) to each other?

 

Clairsentience through each others' senses, IMO, if it was supposed to be an instant, real time sharing of information as if they were one unit. Se

[Christopher]

Re: Triad

 

It's only "obvious" if you know she has three bodies. Otherwise' date=' you know some one is over there watching. But if you no about Magi and familiars an animal paying an unusual amount of attention is going to be suspect too. So I don't think that disproves my opinion. Someone, even some one allot like you describing something to you is going to be different from experiencing it directly, IMO.[/quote']

So far I thought that each of the three bodies looks the same. So it would not only be obvious that a human is watching (there are a lot more animal in a fantasy world than wizards familiars), it would also be obvios that She (the specific person) is watching - because she is literally standing there and watching.

The speed of Mind Link can be increased using Rapid Sense Modifier, the same way you can do it with a secure radio link (to transmit information faster).

 

I just remembered that there is one Mental Power that allows you to use someones senes - Posession (APG I 74).

Poession is basically a Mind Controll (Standart Effect: 40) and Telepathy (Standart Effect: 30). And I am pretty certain the "take senses" is part of the Telepathy.