Material Girl

[Sean Waters]

Re: Material Girl

 

The main reason we tend towards Summon is that Body damage (and other negative effects like Drains) do not carry over normally - neither to the main body, nor to later Golems.

We already know that stun does go over.

That mental powers affect her mind normally in the Golem as in her real body seems logically.

 

So the only things we would need to cover are Body and Drain Transfer.

Just buying Multiform and giving both her Real Body and her Golem Alterante Forms some "Resistant Defenses, Only to prevent effects from affecting the other Forms" seems a simple solution for me.

 

I understand the point, but it still feels wrong, mainly because of the synergy of summon and possession. It completely sidesteps the normal 'controlling a summoned being' rules. Effectively you are getting an powerful new Body at a 80% cost discount.

[Christopher]

Re: Material Girl

 

I understand the point' date=' but it still feels wrong, mainly because of the synergy of summon and possession. It completely sidesteps the normal 'controlling a summoned being' rules. Effectively you are getting an powerful new Body at a 80% cost discount.[/quote']

Wich is why I propose a Multiform with Defenses that only are there to prevent then transfer of Damage/Drains between the Forms as well as the Damage from "Sticking" between Forms.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Material Girl

 

Seems pretty simple...

 

Material Girl is a mutant with an unusual power. At will she dematerialize her organic body and move her psyche to the closet mass of relatively homogenous inorganic material and animate it into a replacement body. This new body will have abilities based on its composition usually but not always including superhuman strange and resistance to damage commiserate with the material's integrity and immunity to environmental conditions that would affect4 most living things.

 

Probably Multiform, with a large variaty of semi generic premade forms. Possibly use a Mutiform only VPP. I feel this sort of thng is necessary, since various substances would have considerably different physical complications.

 

Side Effects (damages the environment) and "based on material availble" type limitations.

 

It's basically the "Material Mimicry" Absorbing Man style build.

 

If her new body is destroyed, Material Girl will snap back where she first dematerialized and reform, stunned and suffering some physical trauma. She can return to that spot at will without trauma whenever she chooses to release her animate body.

 

Triggered Teleport/Mega Teleport

 

Material Girl has control over what matter she animates and can use this effect to damage things like creating a hole in a wall by animating a section of it and stepping out.

 

Power Skill Roll or a seperate MP for stunts like this.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Material Girl

 

I think the cost will probably be the same either way, or similar, so I'm not really arguing against a particular approach (although I do have concerns about summon), but multiform/summon/whatever do not damage the material that you have made the golem from. In most cases that will not matter, but if you want to make a golem out of the vault door that is in your way, it will.

[Christopher]

Re: Material Girl

 

I think the cost will probably be the same either way' date=' or similar, so I'm not really arguing against a particular approach (although I do have concerns about summon), but multiform/summon/whatever do not damage the material that you have made the golem from. In most cases that will not matter, but if you want to make a golem out of the vault door that is in your way, it will.[/quote']

Then you make a golem of vault door material without a propper damaging power, that does little to no damage to the vault door.

The only surefire way to make a hole is Killing Attack*.

 

Hmm, maybe link the Multiform to a KA and only allow multiforms of things the KA can damage? Penetrating can help a lot if wanted.

 

 

*There is Tunneling, but that one is more for longer ranges.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Material Girl

 

Then you make a golem of vault door material without a propper damaging power' date=' that does little to no damage to the vault door.The only surefire way to make a hole is Killing Attack*.Hmm, maybe link the Multiform to a KA and only allow multiforms of things the KA can damage? Penetrating can help a lot if wanted.*There is Tunneling, but that one is more for longer ranges.[/quote']A common "brick trick" type power is Tunelling 1 meter with through relatively high defense material to reliably break through walls and doors.

[phoenix240]

Re: Material Girl

 

A common "brick trick" type power is Tunelling 1 meter with through relatively high defense material to reliably break through walls and doors.

 

That's what I was going to go with for MG in all likelihood. Most of the time anything with enough material for her to form a Golem from would be valid target for Tunneling and its requires less rolling than KA.

[Christopher]

Re: Material Girl

 

That's what I was going to go with for MG in all likelihood. Most of the time anything with enough material for her to form a Golem from would be valid target for Tunneling and its requires less rolling than KA.

Could you please answer these questions, so we know we are on the same page regarding the requirements:

 

How is Stun Damage to the Golem handeled?

So far I understand: Golem none, Controller full

 

How is body damage against the Golem handeled?

So far I think: The Golem takes full, the Controller Nothing; Golems from the same type/form/abilitiess do not share damage.

When the Golem is destroyed (loss of BODY), the Controller takes a Normal Damage Side Effect (Side Effect ignores defenses)

 

How is body damage against the Controller handeled?

So far I think: The Damage stays, but does not carries over to the Golems (upon transform).

 

How are mental powers against the golem handeled?

So far I understand: The mind of the Controller is fully exposed while inside the Golem under her normal mind class. The Golem cannot be affected as seperate entity.

 

How attackable/detectable should the controllers true body be, while controling a body?

So far I understand: Not at all. The body is not there, neither physically nor mentaly.

[phoenix240]

Re: Material Girl

 

My intention is that Material Girl's Golems function as regular characters as far as Body and Stun goes. They are not Automatons though might have some Automaton powers to reflect their durability and inorganic homogenous nature. Ideally, she doesn't take damage rollover from a Golem but if its destroyed (Reduced to 0 Body) she suffers the trauma I mentioned so she tends to switch out damaged ones as soon as possible and dislikes taking forms that are too fragile (like glass) without good reason .

[Sean Waters]

Re: Material Girl

 

The lack of damage rollover would seem to preclude Multiform as damage does affect both forms (even with additional defences the MG could take damage to the golem).

 

If you go with summon (and I still have my reservations as it seems to usurp the normal 'control the summoned thing' rules and replaces your mind in the summoned thing, so a low EGO summoned thing is ONLY an advantage to you) then you need to get rid of MG's body: it has been suggested desolidification. Problem with that is how it is supposed to work. First of all you need to summon the golem (or become desolid and buy your summoning with the +2 'affects material world' advantage if you become desolid before summoning the golem), then the golem will be disoriented for a phase. You need to use or trigger your tunneling to damage the wall/floor/material (again, if you are desolid you need an advantage) - or maybe that actually goes off first?

 

Then you have the dodgiest bit IMO: what happens with the desolid body?

 

The OP seems to suggest that MG returns to the material world where she disappeared, rather that from the remains of the golem (so you either leave her body where it started, so you probably need invisibility, at least, and you need to hope no one has 'affects desolid' attacks) or you somehow 'cling on' inside the golem - which will be difficult because, well, you are desolid so clinging on is awkward, and, if you are inside a solid object, you will need life support. You don't get to control your own body when possessing another, so you need some way to move with the golem - perhaps 0 END clinging - but even that could allow someone to 'knock you' out of the golem if they overcame the clinging STR. Then there is the question of what happens if the golem is hit with an 'affects desolid' attack: presumably MG has to take the damage herself?

 

It all sounds a bit complicated, really. That could just be me though...you can. Of course, hand wave a lot of those objections, if you agree to do so with the GM.

[Wolfgar Lyles]

Re: Material Girl

 

That should be done via the Merging Modifier for Desolidification found in the APG. Merging allows a Desolidified Projecting (another modifier) character to inhabit another character or object - no Clinging or Life Support required.

[Christopher]

Re: Material Girl

 

My intention is that Material Girl's Golems function as regular characters as far as Body and Stun goes. They are not Automatons though might have some Automaton powers to reflect their durability and inorganic homogenous nature. Ideally' date=' she doesn't take damage rollover from a Golem but if its destroyed (Reduced to 0 Body) she suffers the trauma I mentioned so she tends to switch out damaged ones as soon as possible and dislikes taking forms that are too fragile (like glass) without good reason .[/quote']

The "total immunity to damage taken by the golem" is the hard part - as it is in effect immunity to all damage with some (minor) limitations. And immunity to damage is a pretty imbalanced thing in hero.

There is no absolute way to ignore damage, so unless you use your GM-fu to define a way for this NPC you won't get immunity to damage.

And as I see it the "feedback" isn't much of an issue, as she can obviously "Abort to deform" as defensive action. And she can spend her next phase to "golem up" again.

 

Summon + Posession + Desolid + Invsibility or Summon + Desolid, Merging are ways. But honestly they are almost rules abuses and you propably wouldn't allow them for PC's. It also has the problem that enemy mentalists can free the golem from her (competing mental powers rule). And then you have to deal with what happens to a "loose" golem.

And the fact that Possesion in effect outmaneuvers the entire Task system also Sounds unfair. Plus you would need an "extended Class of beings" for the various different shapes she can take.

 

I would still say go with:

Tunneling 1m, high PD material (to create the hole)

plus

Multiform, Side Effect (normal Damage if Multiform not ended manually), linked to Tunneling; give all Golems "accidental Change if body reaches 0".

plus

Resistant Protecton (20 ED, 20 PD), Only to prevent Damage from Transitioning from Real Form to Golems (on the true/human form)

and

Resistant Protecton (20 ED, 20 PD), Only to prevent Damage from Transitioning from Golem to Real for or stay between uses of this form (for each Golem)

plus

Teleport, Megascale, Triggered (when Multiform ends)

plus

1 point Fixed Location: Last place she activated her Multiform

 

Variants:

Instaed of Side Effect you could use Succeptibility.

You can upgrade the "anti-transition defenses" with Hardened and/or Impenetrable

 

Now the only way damage goes over if she takes Golem Defenses + 20 Damage. Asuming at least a decent Golem defense this will hold off the most. The few times she does take damage that "sticks" or she takes the "Backslash" from the golems destruction, there was simply "to much, to fast". You can't put your Mind and Soul into something wihtout having some backslash if it is caught in a nuclear blast. And if your mind (the part that animates the golems) is jolted often enough, your ability to create this golems can suffer (they have less body).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Material Girl

 

You might need a range of multiforms, or a multiform VPP if the properties of the golem vary depending on what material it is made of. Another thought: are golems always the same size? Can MG possess liquids as well as solids? What about gasses?

 

This build does not address adjustment powers though, or something like a transform which might 'freeze' the golem and trap MG in that form. I'm just thinking up potential problems...you can build power defence etc in but the whole thing is starting to look pretty expensive and convoluted.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Material Girl

 

The lack of damage rollover would seem to preclude Multiform as damage does affect both forms (even with additional defences the MG could take damage to the golem).

 

She takes damage in the "golem" form and is fine when she reverts to human.

 

Sounds like Healing to me.

[Christopher]

Re: Material Girl

 

She takes damage in the "golem" form and is fine when she reverts to human.

 

Sounds like Healing to me.

I thought about a character that is "powerfull normal" in his true form, but can take a more powerfull alternative form and any (most) damage he took before the transform is healed. Thought about a heal myself but realised the better way is to have Defenses, "prevented Damage affects Chacter until Change to alternative Form". The alternate form had the same defense, but without limitation (that form heals instantly).

You can do the same stuff with any other defense and even life Support.

 

With healing you need a insanely big, all affecting, triggered heal with ultra-low Re-use duration (translation: A giant amount of AP). And even then you run into problems if you have to switch golems twice per turn and to heal all the damage you took.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Material Girl

 

She takes damage in the "golem" form and is fine when she reverts to human.

 

Sounds like Healing to me.

 

A lot of healing, perhaps...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Material Girl

 

I thought about a character that is "powerfull normal" in his true form, but can take a more powerfull alternative form and any (most) damage he took before the transform is healed. Thought about a heal myself but realised the better way is to have Defenses, "prevented Damage affects Chacter until Change to alternative Form". The alternate form had the same defense, but without limitation (that form heals instantly).

You can do the same stuff with any other defense and even life Support.

 

With healing you need a insanely big, all affecting, triggered heal with ultra-low Re-use duration (translation: A giant amount of AP). And even then you run into problems if you have to switch golems twice per turn and to heal all the damage you took.

 

I agree with this: the best way to heal instantly is to not actually have taken the damage int he first place...but Hero has so many options it is impossibly to avoid damage with defences: you can not actually build 'invulnerable individual' because some clown is going to come up with an AVAD (AON) Does BODY attack that works against you because you are not wearing puce pants.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Material Girl

 

A lot of healing' date=' perhaps...[/quote']

 

Sure. But it's an NPC, so it's not like the points matter here.

 

Alternalty you can buy extra "illusionary" Body/Stun for the human form and use non proportional damage when shifting forms.

 

If she effectly has 50 BODY and 500 STUN, then losing 20 BODY and 60 STUN when an Iron Golem form is destroyed is really no big deal.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Material Girl

 

Sure. But it's an NPC, so it's not like the points matter here.

 

Alternalty you can buy extra "illusionary" Body/Stun for the human form and use non proportional damage when shifting forms.

 

If she effectly has 50 BODY and 500 STUN, then losing 20 BODY and 60 STUN when an Iron Golem form is destroyed is really no big deal.

 

Also a good idea, but it will catch up with you - I suppose you could buy regeneration too, but that would only work in the form with the increased Body. All of these problems would seem to be addressed by the TK approach. Whilst I can see that as a bit munchkinesque, the whole concept is certainly leaning in that direction, so any solutions will too.

[phoenix240]

Re: Material Girl

 

The SFX is that her body is "gone" atomized, *poof* until she reforms it. Its her "spirit" that animates the Golems. Mechanically, I can see that being handled in any number of ways though.

 

A couple of poster have commented on how "munchkin" and over powered the idea is. I don't think its particularly so. MG is no harder to hurt than a girl her age, her Golems aren't going to be that tough as most of the they'll be formed from conventional materials, they take stun and can be knocked out as easily as any other low level brick (or easier) and they'll be plenty of situations where she can't use or won't use her powers at all as their nothing suitable to animate. I mean sure if there's a solid chunk of Unobstanium laying around she might be a bigger problem but mostly she'll be about as tough as concrete or stone and liable to be taken out of the battle all together if one of her bodies is destroyed.

[Christopher]

Re: Material Girl

 

The SFX is that her body is "gone" atomized, *poof* until she reforms it. Its her "spirit" that animates the Golems. Mechanically, I can see that being handled in any number of ways though.

 

A couple of poster have commented on how "munchkin" and over powered the idea is. I don't think its particularly so. MG is no harder to hurt than a girl her age, her Golems aren't going to be that tough as most of the they'll be formed from conventional materials, they take stun and can be knocked out as easily as any other low level brick (or easier) and they'll be plenty of situations where she can't use or won't use her powers at all as their nothing suitable to animate. I mean sure if there's a solid chunk of Unobstanium laying around she might be a bigger problem but mostly she'll be about as tough as concrete or stone and liable to be taken out of the battle all together if one of her bodies is destroyed.

If you would just cut out the Damage on Destruction, teleport on stopping to use this form and the fact that body/stun does not transmits, this would be just a plain Multiform.

 

The main problem is that she can always "disasemble", wich results in instant total heal + teleport to wherever she formed that body. This can easily be a position where she can't be attacked directly (out of range, out of sight) and immediately form another body.

 

One more question:

What about the endurane? Stun is not shared, but what about this characteristic? Does she get's a Stun heal as well, when de-golemizing?

 

Also, how likely is it that somebody hits her with KA's? In most supersettings the KA is reserved for "definetly not sentient" targets.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Material Girl

 

A couple of poster have commented on how "munchkin" and over powered the idea is.

 

Wel, I don't think it's particulalry "munchkin", but the fact that she can participate in battle and not really take damage can potentially changes the risk/reward ratio considerbaly.

 

Mind you, there's TONS of chracter types that can play that game. Summoners, Riggers, Body Jackers (and other psychics), etc...

 

Since she's an NPC, abuse probably isn't going to be an issue...

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Material Girl

 

Might be overcomplicated, but what if the golum was a vehicles, either summoned or through a vehicle (golum) only VPP?

[Christopher]

Re: Material Girl

 

Might be overcomplicated' date=' but what if the golum was a vehicles, either summoned or through a vehicle (golum) only VPP?[/quote']

Maybe, but even that way you can attack the character through the Vehicle.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Material Girl

 

The SFX is that her body is "gone" atomized, *poof* until she reforms it. Its her "spirit" that animates the Golems. Mechanically, I can see that being handled in any number of ways though.

 

A couple of poster have commented on how "munchkin" and over powered the idea is. I don't think its particularly so. MG is no harder to hurt than a girl her age, her Golems aren't going to be that tough as most of the they'll be formed from conventional materials, they take stun and can be knocked out as easily as any other low level brick (or easier) and they'll be plenty of situations where she can't use or won't use her powers at all as their nothing suitable to animate. I mean sure if there's a solid chunk of Unobstanium laying around she might be a bigger problem but mostly she'll be about as tough as concrete or stone and liable to be taken out of the battle all together if one of her bodies is destroyed.

 

 

It is not the idea that is munchkin, it is our suggestions as to how to build it