Alternate initiative rules?

[Spideydave]

Hey fellow HEROphiles,

 

I was wondering where I could find official alternate initiative rules? Are there any in the main books? Are there any in the advanced players guides?

 

I thinking of rule that elimate speed to make the game faster. Or elimate dex as the determining factor for who goes first.

 

Is there this stuff out there officially?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

One option a lot of convention games use is to have all the Player Character have the same spead, basically eliminating the SPD Chart. Low level mooks might still have lower speed (get less actions a Turn) and a Master Villain might have a higher SPD thus giving him more actions, but all that is dealt with by the GM and the players need never see the SPD Chart.

[gojira]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

I don't think "officially," no.

 

Some advice I've heard is to tell each player when they're up next. Example: It's player A's turn, and Player B is next. At the start of A's turn, tell B "you are after A" so they can be preparing their action.

 

The other idea is to have players and NPCs in a list ordered by Dex with the Speed Chart so the GM can easily determine whose turn it is.

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

general tips:

Pick a close SPD's.

3 or 4 for heroic games.

5-7 for superheroic games (with mooks/agents being 3-4).

 

I would really try to keep it, it's as important for combat as Multiple attacks/Turn and Attacks of Opportunity for D&D. Building Speedster without it is very difficulty.

At leas try using bigby's convention rules first.

 

APG I 13 has rules for limited SPD, SPD beyond 12/Secondary SPD

 

APG I 158 has Optional SPD systems:

Rolled SPD in three variants.

2 other systems

Segmented Movement

 

Afaik APG II has no Alternative Systems.

[Spideydave]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

At leas try using bigby's convention rules first.

 

What do you mean by Bigby's convention rules?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

He's refering to my suggestion up thread. Make all the PCs the same SPD (say, for example, 4) and have the players all take 4 actions a turn or have turns of 4 rounds where everyone gets one action. Most NPC normals and "mook" level threats will be, say SPD2 and only get 2 actions a Turn or only act every other round in your 4 round turn. Competent threats will be the same SPD as the PCs. Mega villains meant for the whole team to face may be SPD 6, getting six actions a Turn or getting 2 actions every other round of a 4 round turn, or whatever. Players never need to see the SPD Chart.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

One option a lot of convention games use is to have all the Player Character have the same spead' date=' basically eliminating the SPD Chart. Low level mooks might still have lower speed (get less actions a Turn) and a Master Villain might have a higher SPD thus giving him more actions, but all that is dealt with by the GM and the players need never see the SPD Chart.[/quote']

 

As a longtime convention GM, why would the players ever need to see a SPD chart even if they have different speeds? Most convention combats that I have seen are called by GMs (that is, the GM tells the players when to go) and that seems to work well for both games where virtually all players have the same SPD and games where SPDs can vary. Actually, to me, the one single thing I must absolutely have (besides character sheets for the players) for a convention run is a combat record sheet for me to call the combats from.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

As a longtime convention GM' date=' why would the players ever need to see a SPD chart even if they have different speeds? Most convention combats that I have seen are called by GMs (that is, the GM tells the players when to go) and that seems to work well for both games where virtually all players have the same SPD and games where SPDs can vary. Actually, to me, the one single thing I must absolutely have (besides character sheets for the players) for a convention run is a combat record sheet for me to call the combats from.[/quote']I'd say roughly half the Hero games I played at the last 2 Gencons had GMs call out the phase and count down Dex, not simply call out whose "turn" it is. My point was less about not seeing the Speed Chart itself than simplifying things in general. This isn't actually fo a convention game, it is for a campaign, but by using a unified SPD for all the PCs he can completly ignore teaching them the SPD Chart, or even puting a SPD Characteristic down on the sheet without fundumentally changing how "initiative" works in the system thus making it easier to re-introduce it later if so desired and staying pretty much RAW and not having to explain a funky new initiative system every time he submits a character for review on the forum.

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

It's weird. That Spd "slows down the game" is one of the most common complaints I've seen about Hero...and I've never noticed it compared to games rolling initiative and other similar systems.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

It's weird. The Spd "slows down the game" is one of the most common complaints I've seen about Hero...and I've never noticed it compared to games rolling initiative and other similar systems.

Same here. That is why I tried to suggest a solution that would basically hide the SPD Chart but still work off of it.

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

Same here. That is why I tried to suggest a solution that would basically hide the SPD Chart but still work off of it.

 

It must be an issue. I don't think everyone is making stuff up but I didn't run into it fortunately. Good suggestion earlier though. Useful and it plays to the modular nature of Hero System.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

It's weird. That Spd "slows down the game" is one of the most common complaints I've seen about Hero...and I've never noticed it compared to games rolling initiative and other similar systems.

 

Really? I've never once heard that.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

Really? I've never once heard that.

It's been a complaint in multiple threads since I've joined the forum, usually expressed in threads similar to this one looking for alternative initiative systems.

 

EDIT: Another common complaint is the SPD and DEX determining "initiative" is "boring" or "too static" because you always go at the same time. While I understand that rolling initiative lends fun moments like the slow guy rolling a nat 20 (or whatever) and going before everone, it also lends issues like the Speedy McSpeedster, who paid points to be the fastest, having a string of bad rolls and going last, even after the mooks. With all the options in Hero combat, I'll keep the "static/boring" SPD Chart over rolling for initiative.

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

Really? I've never once heard that.

 

I run into it all the time. I'd be willing to say it the second or third most common complaint after "All the math" needed in character generation. Either its too slow or its too predictable and "boring".

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

If you want to roll for initiative buy some extra Dex, Only to go first in combat -1, with a proportional activation roll from the APG.

 

Speed is more like D&D's Iterative attacks than it is initiative. Mind you, a common complaint about D&D is that iterative attacks slow down the game...

 

By the way, in 6.5e I want to see them get rid of most of the capslock attribute names. Except for CV, they're all abbreviations not acronyms and should be written normally.

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

It's weird. That Spd "slows down the game" is one of the most common complaints I've seen about Hero...and I've never noticed it compared to games rolling initiative and other similar systems.

Similar things happen with Shadowruns 4.x "act four time in three seconds" mechanic (when you have a lot of Cyberware, a least).

D&D doesn't suffers that much, as you can just roll all the dice after another, it's a simple dice sequence. The player doesn't has to decide what to do that often.

 

EDIT: Another common complaint is the SPD and DEX determining "initiative" is "boring" or "too static" because you always go at the same time. While I understand that rolling initiative lends fun moments like the slow guy rolling a nat 20 (or whatever) and going before everone' date=' it also lends issues like the Speedy McSpeedster, who paid points to be the fastest, having a string of bad rolls and going last, even after the mooks. With all the options in Hero combat, I'll keep the "static/boring" SPD Chart over rolling for initiative.[/quote']

I too. But APG I has some very interesting SPD Roll Sysems, including ones that work with a Bell Curve and are based on the SPD-characteristic itself.

 

If you want to roll for initiative buy some extra Dex' date=' Only to go first in combat -1, with a proportional activation roll from the APG.[/quote']

Proportional Activation Roll? i am aware of Proportional, but have no idea how to combine it with a Activation Roll (aside from a Limited naked Advantage).

 

By the way' date=' in 6.5e I want to see them get rid of most of the capslock attribute names. Except for CV, they're all abbreviations not acronyms and should be written normally.[/quote']

I personally prefer it. Usage of capital letters really improves readability. Using full upper case for the characteristics abrevations makes it very hard to mix them up.

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: Alternate initiative rules?

 

Not the Proportional advantage, the proportional result option for Requires a Skill Roll from APG pp. 144-145. Basically, it means how well you succeed in your roll determines how much of the power you can use.