VPP and Lockout

[Armitage]

Suppose that a wizard character has his spell-casting abilities represented by a standard Variable Power Pool that can be changed in combat with a Full Phase action and a Power Skill roll at -1 per 10 Active Points. The Pool is limited to the specific pre-generated spells that he has in his spellbook. The Skill roll represents him recalling the formulas in the book and properly setting up the necessary pattern of magical energy in his mind, to be released when the spell is cast.

However, once a power in the Pool is used, it can't be used again until it's cleared from the Pool and recreated with another Full Phase action and Skill roll. Would Lockout be an appropriate Limitation for this? It's normally used for a power that prevents the use of other powers while it's in effect, but it seems the best fit.

 

For example, a wizard with a 70 point VPP spends a Full Phase and makes a Power Skill roll at -7 to set up a Fireball spell.

 

Fireball: Killing Attack - Ranged 2 1/2d6, Increased Maximum Range (800m; +1/4), Area Of Effect (8m Radius; +1/2) (70 Active Points); OAF Expendable (Difficult to obtain new Focus; Ball of sulfur and bat guano; -1 1/4), Lockout (-1/2), Requires A Roll (Power Skill roll; -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4). Total cost: 17 points.

 

Once he casts the Fireball, he can't cast it again until he spends another Full Phase and makes another Skill roll at -7. Of course, he could also allocate 34 points of his Pool and be able to use Fireball twice before needing to reset.

 

The idea is to avoid a wizard just casting the same spell Phase after Phase after Phase, without resorting to Vancian fire-and-forget. It also enhances the value of things like scrolls and wands, since they would allow a spell to be used multiple times without requiring a Pool reset.

[GhostDancer]

If the Pool is limited to the specific pre-generated spells that he has in his spellbook, maybe a Multipower is suitable, with Extra Time (Full Phase) and such only for reset. Your idea looks good, too.

[Armitage]

To be honest, it's intended as a Heroic-level semi-3.5 D&D adaptation. The spells available for the Pool can be increased by finding them and spending time and money to put them in the spellbook. Multipowers are for Sorcerers who have fixed spells (the slots that they've bought) but can change powers as a 0-Phase action with no Skill roll.

 

It's an attempt to recreate the greater flexibility vs. easier availability without doing a straight conversion. (I'm familiar with Killer Shrike's page; I have it bookmarked.)

[Beast]

what about 1 charge recoverable for each spell

[Hyper-Man]

what about 1 charge recoverable for each spell

 

That approach would technically invalidate the option to allocate enough of the Pool to prepare more than one use of the spell ahead of time.

 

I think the custom application of Lockout is appropriate in this situation.

[Killer Shrike]

Seems reasonable mechanically, but it will cripple a caster. Inferring what the MP based Sorcerer you mention likely looks like, the Wizard using this set up would likely be at a severe disadvantage. Lockout is a mere -1/2 lim; and in this context is functioning more like 1 Recoverable Charge.

 

The skill roll penalties to re-set the VPP is high requiring an investment in the backing skill, and if you are using heroic level skill maxima's it becomes impractical.

 

And the wasted actions to switch spells (much less the chance of failure) will strongly discourage in-combat VPP switching.

 

Out of combat the Wizard can take extra times for bonuses to the skill roll, so they will frequently want the rest of the group to wait around for stretches of in-game time so that the Wiz can get much needed bonuses to reconfig their VPP, which will quickly get old and present logistical issues in game. Especially the inevitable desire to 'buff up' before a big combat, which will involve much jiggering of the Wiz's VPP.

 

 

An alternative to get what you are going for here would be to institute a ground rule for the magic system that spells have a "feature" similar to the re-use restrictions of Healing and its Decreased Reuse mechanic. Each distinct spell slot in the VPP can be used once per 6 Hours as a mandatory -2 "Decreased Reuse" Limitation (which has the side effect of providing a /3 cost reduction, plus other lims). However, the re-use duration can be improved up the time chart as a +1/4 modifier to the Decreased Reuse lim...something like the below chart. This could also be combo'd with the Time Limit modifier for interesting permutations.

 

Decreased Reuse

+1, 1 Phase

+1/2, 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12)

-0, 1 Minute

-1/2, 5 Minutes

-1, 20 Minutes

-1 1/2, 1 Hour

-2, 6 Hours

 

 

[Armitage]

Seems reasonable mechanically' date=' but it will cripple a caster. Inferring what the MP based Sorcerer you mention likely looks like, the Wizard using this set up would likely be at a severe disadvantage.[/quote']

 

In retrospect, it does hinder "prepared" casters too much compared to "spontaneous" ones. I suppose there's nothing really wrong with a wizard casting the same spell repeatedly, sort of a "signature spell", like the Wizard's Fire that Zedd always used in combat on the Legend of the Seeker TV series.

The magic system uses Long-Term Endurance, so maybe all spells (wizard and sorcerer) have Increased Endurance Cost with the Only In Certain Circumstances value reduction. The more often a particular spell is cast in a Turn/Minute/whatever, the more Endurance it costs and the more likely that it will drain LTE.

 

The overall idea was to prevent an RPG seeming like this infamous LARP video.

 

"Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt!"

 

 

Out of combat the Wizard can take extra times for bonuses to the skill roll

 

Changing a VPP out of combat doesn't require a Skill roll; it just takes between 1 Turn and 1 Minute. It's only changing it in combat that requires a roll.

 

 

An alternative to get what you are going for here would be to institute a ground rule for the magic system that spells have a "feature" similar to the re-use restrictions of Healing and its Decreased Reuse mechanic. Each distinct spell slot in the VPP can be used once per 6 Hours as a mandatory -2 "Decreased Reuse" Limitation

 

The Advanced Player's Guide II and 6E Fantasy Hero both have a Delayed Use Limitation. For - 1/4 a power can't be used in consecutive Phases. Each step down the Time Chart is an additional -1/4.

[Killer Shrike]

The Advanced Player's Guide II and 6E Fantasy Hero both have a Delayed Use Limitation. For - 1/4 a power can't be used in consecutive Phases. Each step down the Time Chart is an additional -1/4.

 

Oh, excellent. I actually don't have APG 2 for some reason (TODO: BUY APG2), and I did not notice that in 6E FH. Seems like it could serve your purposes.

 

RE: LTE...I'm going to interpolate and guess you are the same person I had an email exchange w/ last week. I always found LTE to be a very good way to limit the total amount of magic use certain kinds of spellcasters can use in a day. I think you're on solid footing if you are using it as part of your controls for a given magic system. {thumbsup}

 

[Armitage]

RE: LTE...I'm going to interpolate and guess you are the same person I had an email exchange w/ last week. I always found LTE to be a very good way to limit the total amount of magic use certain kinds of spellcasters can use in a day. I think you're on solid footing if you are using it as part of your controls for a given magic system. {thumbsup}

 

Not me.

 

I remember reading a 3.5 adventure, Red Hand of Doom maybe, in which the commander of the army defending a town under siege from an army of goblinoids gets shot with a poisoned arrow. He can't be cured because all of the clerics in town have used up their spells healing the rest of the army.

I thought "How would that work in a system in which spells don't have Charges?" I realized that a viable alternative might be for all of the clerics to be unconscious or nearly so because they've exhausted themselves working around the clock healing people.

[Armitage]

I had another thought on this.

 

If Long-Term Endurance is in effect, then Increased Endurance Cost, Only In Certain Circumstances might work. Specifically, x2 Endurance Cost, Only if a power is used more than once in a Turn. Building and unleashing the same "pattern of mystical force" multiple times in rapid succession is a greater strain than doing it once and allowing those specific "mystic channels" time to recover.

 

e.g.

A wizard has END 30, REC 5, and SPD 3. He has a 70 Active Point Fireball spell prepared (Killing Attack - Ranged 2 1/2d6, Increased Maximum Range (800m; +1/4), Area Of Effect (8m Radius; +1/2)).

 

Phase 4: Fireball. -7 END, 23 remaining.

Phase 8: Fireball. -14 END, 9 remaining.

Phase 12: Fireball. -14 END, -5 remaining. Wizard takes 3d6 STUN.

 

He's burned 34 END in one Turn, and 34/5 = 6.8 so, rounding to 7, he uses 32 Long-Term Endurance, locking him at -2 END. He's dead on his feet and taking STUN from any exertion until he has time to rest.

This could be partially averted by allocating the Pool to the same spell multiple times. If the spell costs 21 Real Points, then using 42 Pool points will allow him to use the spell twice in a Turn without costing double END.

 

I'm not sure that this Limitation should apply to spontaneous casters, since their whole schtick is being able to cast the same handful of spells over and over, sacrificing versatility for firepower.

It could also tie into a post I made some time ago about a Talent designed as +x REC, Only To Calculate LTE From Spells (-2). Obviously, it would need a house rule on how much extra REC a character can buy, based on the maximum Active Points of their spells.

[Christopher]

So basically: The mage has a fixed amount of Spells. He needs a Full Phase and Skill Roll to prepare each Spell before it is cast. Sounds like a standart "difficult preparation, easy casting" system to me:

Multipower, All Slots Full Phase to Prepare, All Slots Skill Roll to Prepare

Expanding the inherent "Change" Limitations of the VPP is propably the wrong track, just name the Limitations as they are.

 

Another take on it: The VPP is actually 0-Phase to change, No Skill Roll - but all the Spells have "Full Phase to Prepare, Skill Roll to Prepare". In a way you replace the inherent Limitations on the VPP with "all Slots" ones on the Spells used.

Ups and downs: The Limitations will not completely negate the Advantages (does not sounds like -2 to divied the +2), but in turn all Spells will be cheaper so the Pool can be smaler. And the pool is already the bigger cost factor,

[Christopher]

I remember reading a 3.5 adventure, Red Hand of Doom maybe, in which the commander of the army defending a town under siege from an army of goblinoids gets shot with a poisoned arrow. He can't be cured because all of the clerics in town have used up their spells healing the rest of the army.

I thought "How would that work in a system in which spells don't have Charges?" I realized that a viable alternative might be for all of the clerics to be unconscious or nearly so because they've exhausted themselves working around the clock healing people.

It might not be moddelable. How a magic system works is also ingrained in the Lore System and the Adventures. D&D 4 and 4.5 who partially abandonned the Charges on Spells might still model it - either the Clerics don't have a high enough level to recast the spell (still have limited charges), or the version consumes a Healing Surge* on the Guardsmen and he has used all up already.

 

*Healing Surge seems like D&D's try to Reverse Engineer STUN and REC into a system that lacks them.

 

 

That aside I thought of a different LTE System (it was specifically designed for a Bleach- or Dragonball-Style Game that I hope to get to run):

1. LTE for Combat might have to be measured over shorter tiemspans. 1 Minute is 5 HERO Turns. In order for LTE to be a Factor in Combat it must be measured over shorter timespans. But then again we need to Multiply REC accordingly before comparing it to use. Never done the math on this part and it is the least important part of the modifications.

2. Pushing is automatic successfull, but drains additionally Drains LTE equal to how much END was used to pushing. No LTE left to use up, no pushing.

3. In addition to the normal End Cost and Extra End Cost Limitations, characters can take a "Costs LTE" Limitations (priced as Endurance Limitations for a Power that normally costs no END). A power can cost more then it's normal END cost in LTE, but it cannot cost more LTE then it costs normal Endurance. LTE for Maintaining only might also be possible.

4. The more interesting Spells are the ones that heal LTE. END will recover quite fast (up to what is left of your LTE). What healers need to heal are BODY and LTE.

 

When a Character first learns a new Power he might need to apply LTE cost to simulate missing experience with it. With experience he could buy it off.

 

Mega Blast:

12D6 Blast, 2x End Cost (-1/2), Costs Normal END in LTE (-1/2), 2x LTE Cost (-1/2)

Cost: 24 Real*, 12 END, 12 LTE per use

 

With Experience that might become:

12D6 Blast, 2x End Cost Cost Normal END in LTE (-1/2)

Cost: 30 Real*, 12 END, 6 LTE

 

And will finally just become:

12d6 Blast

Cost: 60 Real*, 6 END, 0 LTE

*Factor in Multpower for further Cost reduction