Haitian style ability

[col_impact]

So in the TV show "Heroes", the Haitian character could shut off everyone else's powers. The "suppress" would happen whenever the Haitian was nearby and would come off as a total surprise to anyone who was afflicted by the "suppress". They never saw it coming.

 

What would be the most legitimate and efficient way to represent such a power?

 

I am interested in building a similar kind of power but one that affects Mental Powers only (the Haitian would affect all super powers). This is what I have so far . . .

 

Psionic Black Out: Suppress All Mental Powers 1d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (1m Radius; +1/4), Persistent (+1/4), Constant (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible, effects of Power are Imperceivable to target; +1), MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1), Expanded Effect (all Mental Powers simultaneously) (+4) (87 Active Points); No Range (-1/2)

 

This is about as close to the effect as I can get and it seems a legitimate application of the rules. If I put it at (1/2)d6 effect it would still work just slower but within legal active points (44) and you could even put a penetrating advantage on it to insure that it worked through power defense, but using penetrating in that way probably goes too far into munchkin-y. Either way, basically the large scale and total invisibility to its targets compensate for the slow cumulative run-up to total suppression. This version takes about a minute to get to 60 active points of suppression (assuming 3 standard effect * 5 speed each turn).

 

Ideally, I would like to have a smaller scale but an instant run-up to total suppression.

 

Any ideas? Suggestions?

 

 

[Asperion]

some minor points:

 

Too few dice of effect: most mentalist would only lose from 0.5 to1 die of effect. that is not enough to notice for most mentalists and they will need multiple hits which will take more than one turn and by that time your char will most likely be mental mush.

Cost: as written power costs 58 RP (assuming GM allows the 0 END on power). If 0 END is removed then power becomes 55 RP and 8 END per use.

Suggestion: lose the IPE. this will reduce the current build to 52 points and allow you to add one die without any problems. The SFX of the power would not cause any problems with any other power, especially since it only works against mental powers, all the others would be unaffected.

 

Hope that this helps you out. just my two cents --

[Lucius]

That "never saw it coming" effect could be either a creeping effect or a pouncing effect - either a slow and invisible build up, or a sudden fully effective suppression.

 

The only way I see to get an "instant" Suppress of up to 60 points is to buy so many dice of effect that it costs literally hundreds of points.

 

The more dice you are rolling, the less you want to use Standard Effect. First, because high numbers of dice reliably tend towards the average anyway. Second because Standard Effect cheats you out of a half point per die on the average.

 

I don't think you need a +4 Advantage to cover all Mental Powers. The book lists only six such Powers.

 

 

Here's a version I whipped up using Damage over Time that takes 30 seconds to reach about 60 pts of effect. Damage over Time with the Defense Applies only Once option doesn't need Penetrating, it just overwhelms the Defense.

 

Psionic Blackout: (Total: 55 Active Cost, 27 Real Cost) Drain: Suppress Mental Powers 1/2d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Persistent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Area Of Effect (16m Radius; +3/4), Invisible Power Effects (Invisible to [one Sense Group], effects of Power are Invisible to target; +3/4), Expanded Effect (x6 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (All Mental Powers; +2 1/2), Damage Over Time, Target's defenses only apply once, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (32 damage increments, damage occurs every Segment, +5) (55 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Always On (-1/2) (Real Cost: 27)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Brought to you by Palindromedary Labs

 

 

[Hyper-Man]

Here are some munchkiny versions that would only fail to work vs. someone with Hardened and/or Impenetrable Power Defense.

Note how much cheaper the effect is in 5e vs. 6e.

 

33 Psionic Black Out - 5er: Suppress Mental Powers 1d6 (standard effect: 3 points), all [special effect] powers simultaneously (+2), Inherent (+1/4), Penetrating (+1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Indirect (Same origin, any direction; +1/2), Continuous (+1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Area Of Effect (96" Radius; +2), Invisible Power Effects, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; +2), Autofire (10 shots; +2), Cumulative (384 points; +2) (74 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Limited Special Effect Very Common SFX (Biological Mental Powers Only; -1/4) - END=0

 

72 Psionic Black Out - 6e v1: Drain Mental Powers 1d6 (standard effect: 3 points), Persistent (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Constant (+1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Indirect (Source Point is the Character, path can change with every use; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Area Of Effect (32m Radius; +1), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible, effects of Power are Invisible to target; +1 1/2), Autofire (10 shots; +1), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1), Expanded Effect (x7 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (Mental Blast, Mental Defense, Mental Illusions, Mind Control, Mind Link, Mind Scan & Telepathy; +3) (127 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Limited Special Effect Very Common SFX (Biological Based Mental Powers; -1/4) - END=0

 

58 Psionic Black Out - 6e v2: Drain Mental Powers 1d6 (standard effect: 3 points), Persistent (+1/4), Inherent (+1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Constant (+1/2), Penetrating (+1/2), Mental Powers (+1/2), Indirect (Source Point is the Character, path can change with every use; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Area Of Effect (32m Radius; +1), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible, effects of Power are Invisible to target; +1 1/2), Autofire (10 shots; +1), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (102 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Limited Special Effect Very Common SFX (Biological Based Mental Powers; -1/4)

[Notes: If the Target's Mental Powers have the Unified Limitation then Expanded Effect is not necessary.] - END=0

 

[ayinde]

damage negation usable nearby(+1.25) 5 damage classed (25ap) total cost 56pts

heck add area effect explosion (+.25) 62.5

[psyber624]

OP- something noone seems to have pointed out clearly yet is that the way you built it it will only suppress 1d6 PERIOD!. It doesn't add up or acculumlate with any of the advantages you have listed. Also, technically Suppress is a constant power (once you add the Costs Endurance to Maintain Limitation to Drain). Since you have set it to 0 END the Costs Endurance limitation is -0 (and some GM's may not allow it) but you don't have to buy constant as well. However all that does is mean that the suppression is on all the time, it doesn't keep suppressing more and more power from segment/phase to segment/phase or anything like that.

 

Damage over Time will work for that, again assuming your GM allows you to use it with this power. Cumulative will work to get you to the max you could roll on the die (and you can increase the max with further advantages). You could also just buy a Constant Drain instead of a Suppress but then the targets will regain 5 points per "application" at the end of every turn so it would probably fail to do much at the level you currently have it at.

[Christougher]

OP- something noone seems to have pointed out clearly yet is that the way you built it it will only suppress 1d6 PERIOD!. It doesn't add up or acculumlate with any of the advantages you have listed. Also, technically Suppress is a constant power (once you add the Costs Endurance to Maintain Limitation to Drain). Since you have set it to 0 END the Costs Endurance limitation is -0 (and some GM's may not allow it) but you don't have to buy constant as well. However all that does is mean that the suppression is on all the time, it doesn't keep suppressing more and more power from segment/phase to segment/phase or anything like that.

 

Damage over Time will work for that, again assuming your GM allows you to use it with this power. Cumulative will work to get you to the max you could roll on the die (and you can increase the max with further advantages). You could also just buy a Constant Drain instead of a Suppress but then the targets will regain 5 points per "application" at the end of every turn so it would probably fail to do much at the level you currently have it at.

Actually, he can keep applying the power repeatedly. Each single use of the power is 1d6, but stack it 12 times and he gets 12d6 of (total) effect.

[Hyper-Man]

The OP example has elements of 5e and 6e rules. In 5e rules Suppress was it's own power. In 6e rules Suppress is just an option when a Drain is built with Costs End To Maintain. My 6e examples above did not use this option. They are just built with Drain.

[psyber624]

OP- something noone seems to have pointed out clearly yet is that the way you built it it will only suppress 1d6 PERIOD!. It doesn't add up or acculumlate with any of the advantages you have listed. Also, technically Suppress is a constant power (once you add the Costs Endurance to Maintain Limitation to Drain). Since you have set it to 0 END the Costs Endurance limitation is -0 (and some GM's may not allow it) but you don't have to buy constant as well. However all that does is mean that the suppression is on all the time, it doesn't keep suppressing more and more power from segment/phase to segment/phase or anything like that.

 

Damage over Time will work for that, again assuming your GM allows you to use it with this power. Cumulative will work to get you to the max you could roll on the die (and you can increase the max with further advantages). You could also just buy a Constant Drain instead of a Suppress but then the targets will regain 5 points per "application" at the end of every turn so it would probably fail to do much at the level you currently have it at.

forgot about that aspect of the power, thanks.

[col_impact]

double post - see my next post below

[ayinde]

well to be fair and true to source was there ever a time where he had to use it on more than one character

[col_impact]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. It's interesting to see all of the different approaches people take tackling the same concept.

 

***

Lucius, It's a great suggestion that I don't need the +4 advantage to cover all Mental Powers. However, the concept for this particular character is that he can suppress all Mental Powers which would include the iconic 6 (Telepathy, Ego Blast, etc.) no matter what special effect they had AND any power with the special effect "Mental or Psionic" (e.g. mental transforms, clairsentience defined as mental in origin, psychokinesis, etc.).

 

I also like the suggestion of Damage Over Time since that seems a possible avenue to take to get this power precisely tailored to function according to concept. I am going to look into that and play with that. Thanks for directing my attention to that Advantage.

 

***

 

I have a couple of questions for Hyper-man.

 

First, why did you include an Indirect advantage in your versions?

 

Also, for Invisible Power Effect you indicated a (+1 1/2) version of the advantage. I was under the impression that a +1 version of IPE is sufficient to achieve a fully invisible effect. In fact, Lucius for his proposed version is implementing a + 3/4 version of IPE, presumably thinking that +3/4 worth of effect that is sufficient to the task. Which level of this advantage insures that targets aren't aware that their mental power is being diminished until it is actually used?

 

****

 

Re: Drain Vs Suppress

 

I think Drain or Suppress could be used here. Suppress bought to 0 END needs special permission, but a Drain 1d6 that accomplishes some measure of positive effect per turn over and above the 5 point return rate accomplishes effectively the same thing. Suppress seems a cleaner application of the concept to me (and I am the GM in this case).

 

****

 

Further Tinkering . . .

 

Here is a further refinement of my original posted idea. Not sure if the refined original is the way to go, but I thought I would share my further tinkering with it.

 

Psionic Black Out: Suppress All Mental Powers 1d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4), Persistent (+1/4), Constant (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible, effects of Power are Imperceivable to target; +1), MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1), Expanded Effect (all Mental Powers simultaneously) (+4) (87 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Limited Power takes effect only when all mental powers of target reach level of full suppression (-1/4), Proportional (power can only reach full effect in inner 10% of radius; -1/4)

 

So basically I am tinkering with adding a few limitations to throttle the Megascale so that the power runs up in "stored potential" when targets are within the 4 km radius and "turns on" when the actual "active" radius threshold is reached at 400 m radius. This would work conceptually against just about anybody since in most encounters a 4 km spatial buffer is enough for a run up. Its okay if greater than 3 points of power defense shuts the power down, that fits into the concept of the power (and keeps it from being too powerful).

 

However, if someone rapidly entered the 4 km threshold with teleport or very rapid movement there would be a significant slice of time they could act with their mental powers before getting shut off by this power . . . which is a loose end. Ideally, to fit the concept 100%, there is simply a psionic dead zone around the character that is fully on whenever anyone walks into it.

 

****

 

Again, thanks for all the suggestions so far.

 

[psyber624]

Okay, my comments:

 

Invisible Power Effects: By default IPE concealse the Activity (the fact that your player is using a power), Source (the fact that the player is the one causing the power to work), Path (the direction the power takes, in this case the Area it affects), Target (the fact that someone inside the area is the target), Special Effect (the fact that this is a mental power), and Intensity (the fact that this is a 1d6 Suppress) although many of those things may not really apply in your case. However it does NOT make the EFFECT of the power invisible. The "target" will know that his mental power is being weakened. If you do not want the target to know that his mental powers are being weakened you have to apply an additional Advantage which is probably what the +1 1/2 build was doing. Note that rationalizing this and actually role playing it can be quite a headache. You would basically be saying that the targets powers are getting weaker but he doesn't realize it. That is fine for something like Mental Blast or Mind Control where he might think the opponent just had too much MD, but other applications (and especially ongoing applications) its hard to explain how he could fail to notice that his powers werent working right. Take Flight with a Psychokinesis SFX. Your power would drain it, but how would you explain that the target is unaware that his flight isn't working?

 

On your refinement. 1. Suppress is already a constant power, you don't need to apply the Constant advantage to it and doing so doesn't accomplish anything.

2. Your limitation will prevent that power from EVER working as each use of Suppress will fail to do anything. More of a wording argument, I get that, but when trying to arbitrate how powers interact wording becomes very important.

3. As built currently you will have to take an action every time you "turn on" a level of suppress. Since there is no reason you should ever have to "turn off" any of your Suppress levels (as they require no END) any GM worth mentioning would have issues with this power. (the player could say "I am going to spend the next 3 days activating another instance of this power on every phase I get so that I have several hundred d6 of Suppress going until I decide to stop) The effect I believe your going for is that you want this "Suppression" field active all the time, and the longer you spend in the field the more the Suppress will affect you. That would be simulated by the "Cumulative" advantage. For +1/2 you can add up to the maximum you could "roll" on your die, for every +1/4th you can double that amount . So if you wanted to be able to suppress up to say 60 AP you would need 4 doublings so the final cost of Cumulative would be +1 1/2. At that point your Suppress would add 1d6 of "suppression" every phase a target spent inside the AOE until he reached the maximum suppression (96 points unless you defined it as 60 (or the GM limited you to that or something)). Note that adding Cumulative to a Suppress is against RAW but it is the best fit for what you are describing.

 

I am confused about the "Psionic Dead Zone" you are talking about. If that's what you want this whole thing becomes MUCH easier as you just buy enough dice to do the Suppress all at once. 20d6 should probably do it. Apply SER and now you have 60 AP of Suppress Mental Powers going on all the time, anyone who enters the area will instantly loose access to any Mental Powers they have. Yeah, that makes this power ridiculously expensive, but for what its doing IT SHOULD BE! Honestly as it stands this appears to be a textbook example of "Over Advantaged Cheap Power" Cheese but YMMV and all, to each their own.

 

Also confused about your "proportional" limitation. Your area is a 1kilometer area. So it only takes full effect when someone is within 400m of you? is that really any limitation at all? VERY few encounters will happen where you are concerned about someone more than 400m away from you so that is one of those "limitations that isn't really limiting" and not worth any points. To note: 400m is out of range of any power with less than 40 active points, targeting across 400m is a -12 OCV penalty.

[col_impact]

Thanks for the input Psyber624.

 

I probably do need IPE at +1 1/2 to get the desired level of invisibility. To clarify, this would only only make the affect invisible to the target for powers that aren't activated. The target would obviously be aware of their active powers being shut down when this suppression field takes effect. So someone flying with a mental power would suddenly come crashing down. But, if a character was not actively using any mental powers while in the suppression field they would have no awareness of them being shut off. Importantly, once the target realizes they have lost their mental powers they don't know what is causing it.

 

Suppress is constant, but a constant advantage can be applied to it (see 6E1 197) which makes it so that each "layer" of suppress doesn't require additional attack rolls beyond the first to take hold. And, the constant modifier reduces the amount of bookkeeping the character needs to maintain with the power. He just needs to actively keep it on and new layers of suppress will keep layering on people who enter the suppression field.

 

However, to fit the concept of a suppression field that simply surrounds the character and requires little or no amount of effort to maintain I need an Uncontrolled advantage. With uncontrolled and 1d6 of effect the power weighs in at 97 active points which is right about the active cost this kind of power should have in my mind. Keep in mind that the power could also be rigged with an invisible transform and be probably cheaper. Also, even though the power seems very potent it is entirely shut down by merely 4 points of power defense.

 

The limitations that make the suppress only able to kick on when it has reached the potential of full effect is an interesting one and one that I think merits a -1/4 limitation. It means that defensively someone could aid or heal points in the power to temporarily turn their powers back on at full blast which introduces a nice weakness to the overall power. Also, throttling in the radius where full effect can be achieved means that the target only needs to get 400 m away rather than 4 km away in order to restore their powers at full level.

[Hyper-Man]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. It's interesting to see all of the different approaches people take tackling the same concept.

 

I have a couple of questions for Hyper-man.

 

First, why did you include an Indirect advantage in your versions?

 

Also, for Invisible Power Effect you indicated a (+1 1/2) version of the advantage. I was under the impression that a +1 version of IPE is sufficient to achieve a fully invisible effect. In fact, Lucius for his proposed version is implementing a + 3/4 version of IPE, presumably thinking that +3/4 worth of effect that is sufficient to the task. Which level of this advantage insures that targets aren't aware that their mental power is being diminished until it is actually used?

 

****

 

Re: Drain Vs Suppress

 

I think Drain or Suppress could be used here. Suppress bought to 0 END needs special permission, but a Drain 1d6 that accomplishes some measure of positive effect per turn over and above the 5 point return rate accomplishes effectively the same thing. Suppress seems a cleaner application of the concept to me (and I am the GM in this case).

 

****

 

 

Again, thanks for all the suggestions so far.

 

re: Indirect.

If you want the power to not be stopped by a wall or window it would be necessary (Mental Powers can work through windows by default via Line of Sight).

 

re: IPE & Surpress vs. Drain

The costs and applicability of function both depend greatly on what version of the rules you are using. That's why I posted the multiple 5e and 6e versions (built using Hero Designer v3).

 

[Hyper-Man]

FYI,

 

Expanded Effect (all Mental Powers simultaneously) (+4) is a valid Advantage in 5th Edition.

There is no equivalent to this in 6th Edition. That's why my first 6e example shows the explicit description of what Powers it affects.

[col_impact]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. It's interesting to see all of the different approaches people take tackling the same concept.

 

I have a couple of questions for Hyper-man.

 

First, why did you include an Indirect advantage in your versions?

 

Also, for Invisible Power Effect you indicated a (+1 1/2) version of the advantage. I was under the impression that a +1 version of IPE is sufficient to achieve a fully invisible effect. In fact, Lucius for his proposed version is implementing a + 3/4 version of IPE, presumably thinking that +3/4 worth of effect that is sufficient to the task. Which level of this advantage insures that targets aren't aware that their mental power is being diminished until it is actually used?

 

****

 

Re: Drain Vs Suppress

 

I think Drain or Suppress could be used here. Suppress bought to 0 END needs special permission, but a Drain 1d6 that accomplishes some measure of positive effect per turn over and above the 5 point return rate accomplishes effectively the same thing. Suppress seems a cleaner application of the concept to me (and I am the GM in this case).

 

****

 

 

Again, thanks for all the suggestions so far.

 

 

re: Indirect.

If you want the power to not be stopped by a wall or window it would be necessary (Mental Powers can work through windows by default via Line of Sight).

 

re: IPE & Surpress vs. Drain

The costs and applicability of function both depend greatly on what version of the rules you are using. That's why I posted the multiple 5e and 6e versions (built using Hero Designer v3).

 

Even though it seems logical that you might need Indirect in the case of AoE radius, the rule book seems to indicate that you don't.

 

[6E1 319] Area Of Effect attacks completely fill the affected area. There are no “shadows” created by obstacles that a target could take shelter behind. If a GM wants to be more “realistic” and come up with rules for taking cover from Areas Of Effect that way, he can.

[col_impact]

FYI,

 

Expanded Effect (all Mental Powers simultaneously) (+4) is a valid Advantage in 5th Edition.

There is no equivalent to this in 6th Edition. That's why my first 6e example shows the explicit description of what Powers it affects.

Here is where you can find the equivalent in 6th ed . . .

 

[6E1 142] At the GM’s option, if an Adjustment Power also has the Variable Effect Advantage, buying Expanded Effect at the “eight game elements simultaneously” level (+3½) allows the character to affect all game elements of the defined special effect at once, even if there are more than eight of them. For ease of reference you can write this as Expanded Effect (+4).

[Christopher]

This might not be properly solveable, simply because the power is a too extreme construct in the first place. It is likely one of the cases where "What works in Fiction does not work well in a RPG".

 

Ultimatively hero balance will prevent something like this power from existing in a real game. The sheer amount of Active Points you need to make a AoE, Invisible, all Mental Powers affecting Drain of sufficient strenght is simply astronomic and not practical.

And then again the Haitian had also had a very severe limitation on his power - it only affected a extremely small group of people. Something like a Dozen from 6 Billion? Airplanes did not fall out of the sky (but heroes with flight did), people still healed cuts normally (but superhealing did not work).

You also have to ask yourself wheter his power was an actuall power or a Plot device. (Temporarily) loosing your power belongs to superpowered settings, as much as having powers. The same way "no tech" scenarios belong to SciFi as much as the SciFi Technology.

[Hyper-Man]

FYI,

 

Expanded Effect (all Mental Powers simultaneously) (+4) is a valid Advantage in 5th Edition.

There is no equivalent to this in 6th Edition. That's why my first 6e example shows the explicit description of what Powers it affects.

Nice find.

[col_impact]

For reference and as a sanity check on how many active points should be involved with a power of this magnitude here is the power as a transform power . . .

 

Severe Transform 1d6 (Being with Mental Powers into Being with No Mental Powers), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4), Persistent (+1/4), Constant (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible, effects of Power are Invisible to target; +1 1/2) (86 Active Points); No Range (-1/2)

 

For those of you who think that the ability to strip mental powers off supers is insanely powerful and undercosted at 86 active points keep in mind that a transform like the one above could alternatively be used to turn a whole city's population into a city of willing slaves or a city of ducks. Or change into an AVAD Killing attack and you can just kill the city in a matter of a minute or two with nuclear radiation. You could even turn off IPE since hardly anybody would be able to move outside of the massive area of effect quickly enough anyway.

 

Using transform to define this power is nice and clean. It is inherently cumulative and by default its transform effect pops on suddenly (a sudden shut off of powers is the desired effect here). And you can define in an arbitrary fashion how the transform goes away.

[Christopher]

For reference and as a sanity check on how many active points should be involved with a power of this magnitude here is the power as a transform power . . .

 

Severe Transform 1d6 (Being with Mental Powers into Being with No Mental Powers), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4), Persistent (+1/4), Constant (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible, effects of Power are Invisible to target; +1 1/2) (86 Active Points); No Range (-1/2)

 

For those of you who think that the ability to strip mental powers off supers is insanely powerful and undercosted at 86 active points keep in mind that a transform like the one above could alternatively be used to turn a whole city's population into a city of willing slaves or a city of ducks. Or change into an AVAD Killing attack and you can just kill the city in a matter of a minute or two with nuclear radiation. You could even turn off IPE since hardly anybody would be able to move outside of the massive area of effect quickly enough anyway.

 

Using transform to define this power is nice and clean. It is inherently cumulative and by default its transform effect pops on suddenly (a sudden shut off of powers is the desired effect here). And you can define in an arbitrary fashion how the transform goes away.

I would never describe Transform as "nice and clean". It is one of the two Fallback powers if really nothing else works.

Especially when you add STOP sign stuff like Megascale and 0 END Uncontrolled things get really uncontrollable fast.

 

Like you said, a similar pwoer could be used to transform a entire City into ducks, herores and all. It could wipe out a superteam before it even figured out they are under attack, much less by whom - that is how unbalancing powerfull this power is.

[Lucius]

Your power would drain it' date=' but how would you explain that the target is unaware that his flight isn't working?[/quote']

 

His Flight IS working. Just perfectly. Until it's not. The Drain only takes effect when it can eliminate ALL of the targeted Power. Until it takes effect the subject of the power doesn't notice anything because there is nothing TO notice. He's not flying slower and slower and slower. He's flying full speed ahead, until his Flight shuts off totally.

 

Also confused about your "proportional" limitation. Your area is a 1kilometer area. So it only takes full effect when someone is within 400m of you? is that really any limitation at all? VERY few encounters will happen where you are concerned about someone more than 400m away from you so that is one of those "limitations that isn't really limiting" and not worth any points. To note: 400m is out of range of any power with less than 40 active points, targeting across 400m is a -12 OCV penalty.

 

It's not a -12 OCV for Mental Powers, which work by line of sight. Not to mention the question of how many mentalists have Mind Scan, and can target someone from across a continent. That said, I'm not sure about this Limitation either. I would have used Explosion.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

My palindromedary is working. Just perfectly.

 

[psyber624]

Its not the cost compared to what could be done with Transform that is the issue. A 1d6 Transform with all those advantages has the same problems. It is "Advantage Stacking" (6e 1 313) a low cost power that makes it insane. Many combinations of advantages can result in overly powerful abilities and when you stick them onto relatively cheap Base Costs you circumvent the pricing aspect that balances the power of the advantage. Constant + 0 END is a perfect example of this. It creates a "fire and forget" power that could theoretically be left running forever as there is no cost associated with the continued use of the power. Either of those on their own are fine but the two together create a REALLY potent combo that can easily be overbalancing. Then you tack that onto a Megascaled AOE so that it affects a HUGE area, still at a relatively low cost, not to mention the fact that it being a constant AOE means you can "activate" it as many times as you want and go from 1d6 to xd6 worth of Suppress active, all at the same time, and there is no limit to how high x can go as your power doesn't cost any END to use. THEN you tack on persistent so even getting KO'd doesn't alleviate the problem, you still can keep your xd6 worth of Suppress going, each use of which will continue to add up phase after phase. Your build has +7 3/4ths worth of advantages applied to a 10 base point power, and two of the advantages (Constant and 0 END) almost completely negate the relevance of the low base point cost.

 

Edit: To be fair, Advantage Stacking is one of those GM areas. As a GM I would never allow a power like this into my game, even tho it works RAW. However YMMV and what you can do is between your GM and you (or between you and your players if you are the GM). With your latest build I don't see anything that doesn't work RAW, just stating my opinion that it shouldn't be implemented in a game unless its a plot device used by a GM (in which case building it is usually not important, it works how the GM says it works and that's all there is to it).

[psyber624]

Your power would drain it' date=' but how would you explain that the target is unaware that his flight isn't working?[/quote']

 

His Flight IS working. Just perfectly. Until it's not. The Drain only takes effect when it can eliminate ALL of the targeted Power. Until it takes effect the subject of the power doesn't notice anything because there is nothing TO notice. He's not flying slower and slower and slower. He's flying full speed ahead, until his Flight shuts off totally.

 

Also confused about your "proportional" limitation. Your area is a 1kilometer area. So it only takes full effect when someone is within 400m of you? is that really any limitation at all? VERY few encounters will happen where you are concerned about someone more than 400m away from you so that is one of those "limitations that isn't really limiting" and not worth any points. To note: 400m is out of range of any power with less than 40 active points, targeting across 400m is a -12 OCV penalty.

 

It's not a -12 OCV for Mental Powers, which work by line of sight. Not to mention the question of how many mentalists have Mind Scan, and can target someone from across a continent. That said, I'm not sure about this Limitation either. I would have used Explosion.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

My palindromedary is working. Just perfectly.

Oops, thanks Lucius. Forgot about the whole LOS issue. Of course whether 400m is within LOS is something that a GM would have to decide (and if he declared it needed a PER roll that PER roll is also at -12). Not to mention the fact that with IPE the mentalist wouldn't realize that the character NEEDED to be attacked to stop the power loss. And the fact that the AOE means that LOS isn't needed for this power to work at all (so being able to target someone when more than 400m away is far from a given). Also, with the way this power works failing to work at "full effect" is rather meaningless. Its only a 1d6 power so what is less effect? Are you subtracting 1 or 2 from the roll? what if the roll is a 1 anyway?