New to Hero system: Hexes?

[docdoom77]

Hello! I just bought Hero system and have read through most of the two main rule books. I was curious about using hex maps. I know previous editions used hexes and the game went to meters (generally a good idea), but I don't even see optional rules or suggestions for hex maps in the core books. I LOVE using maps for combat. Am I correct that the old scale was one hex = two meters? Is that what hex users are doing now? If that's the case, how do you do reach for weapons. I assumed small and medium weapons would require you to be in an adjacent hex (1m and 2m reach respectively) and L and EL weapons would reach 2 hexes away (3m and 4m respectively).

 

Also, given the large ground scale of 2m in one hex, how do people handle sharing hexes with opponents? Thanks for the help!

[CrosshairCollie]

Yes, the pre-6e scale was 1 hex=2 meters, which is what I still use (having not shifted to 6e in the first place). As far as weapons go, it's just a matter of how you built it. If you want to be able to attack non-adjacent hexes, you have to add Stretching to your weapon (with lots of limitations). No more complicated than that.

 

Sharing hexes with an opponent is easy ... you just cram them into the same hex base-to-base, or buy a hexmap with larger hexes so they'll fit normally.

[docdoom77]

Thanks for the reply! As far as reach, I was referring to heroic level "bought" weapons which have a size which determines reach (S adds nothing to the character's 1m reach, M adds 1m, L adds 2m, and EL adds 3m... I think). At hence my question about it. Still, I think I kinda answered my own question on that; I just wanted some confirmation. ;P

[bigbywolfe]

There is nothing magical about hexes or 2 meter measurements. You can have the scale be what ever is appropriate for the size map you are using. A one inch or 15mm hex (or squate) can be 1 meter (perhaps you have a big map of a small building) or 2 meters, or 10 meters if you have a city map. You game at whatever scale is convenient for you.

 

Even in 5E and earlier when hexes were used as a measurement in the book, nothing actually dictated that that scale had to actually be used in game play. It was just that 2 meters = 1 inch = 1 hex for referring to things like movement powers and AoE distances. The pointlessness of having 3 measurements that all meant the same thing throughout the book is why it was changed in 6E.

 

[docdoom77]

I agree. Absolutely, but I was curious what others were using and how it worked for them. I'm thinking I'll use 1 hex is 2 meters mostly to keep AOEs from looking ridiculous and from having spears attacking 4 hexes away. And I thought a suggestion of how to handle hex maps would have made a good section in the book. It could still be optional. Thanks for the reply!

[bluesguy]

We are using the 6e rules + hex maps. We just remember that everything in the rules is based on meters and each hex is 2 meters.

[Chris Goodwin]

I've thought about trying a 1/2" triangular dot grid, where 1/2" = 1m. Effectively, it's a 2m hex grid without the hexes. You can still use the classic scale for minis, but you have the advantage of 1m resolution.

[Killer Shrike]

Hello! I just bought Hero system and have read through most of the two main rule books. I was curious about using hex maps.

You can still use a hex map. I generally do.

 

But if one isn't handy or a I have a pre-printed map or something, a tape measure or ruler works just fine.

 

I know previous editions used hexes and the game went to meters (generally a good idea), but I don't even see optional rules or suggestions for hex maps in the core books. I LOVE using maps for combat.

What rules support do you need, exactly? Just use whatever map at whatever scale. The scale determines whatever translation needs to occur.

 

The use of maps wasn't changed. Just notation and assumptions.

 

Am I correct that the old scale was one hex = two meters?

Yes.

 

Is that what hex users are doing now?

...

 

Ok...lets get concrete here. I've got a roll-up Chessex hex map that we've used for years. In fact, I've had a succession of them over the last 20 plus years; this one has held up longer than usual but its functionally identical to the very first paper one I used in 1990 when I first started playing the HERO System.

 

And from then until now, from version 4e, thru 5e, and now 6e, the scale of an individual encounter is and can be set to whatever is expedient. By default 2m hexes is a convenient scale, but if the physical space being modeled requires it, each hex could represent 6m, 10m, 30m, 100m...whatever meters.

 

In 6e, this is even more convenient, and in PRACTICAL terms, it is easy to drop down to 1m hexes or up to 2m or 5m hexes. These three scales handle the vast majority of situations.

 

It was and is also possible to have a large chunk of the matte be highly scaled, for say a mass battle or a large location, and one corner or edge can be used for "up close" or skirmish distance as needed to resolve little snapshots of activity within the larger whole...or vice versa, you can use the majority of the matte for "skirmish" and a highly scaled corner as a "nav map" just like in many video games. Whatever works.

 

This prevents having to stop game play to re-map, and splitting the matte helps to manage multiple encounters simultaneously.

 

 

Personally, in 6e, I've found that resolving most typical encounters with 1m hexes tends to work out well and I tend to start there. The players seem more comfortable with counting by 1 and the sense of relative distance works out. But, if necessary, its a moments decision to "adjust the zoom"; I just state the scale, maybe write it on a yellow sticky and put it on the map so people remember at a glance.

 

 

If that's the case, how do you do reach for weapons. I assumed small and medium weapons would require you to be in an adjacent hex (1m and 2m reach respectively) and L and EL weapons would reach 2 hexes away (3m and 4m respectively).

You just factor the reach by the scale.

 

Also, given the large ground scale of 2m in one hex, how do people handle sharing hexes with opponents? Thanks for the help!

Just declare "these two mini's are in the same hex". More often than not, this comes up as part of a grab / grappling scenario, or with smaller than usual characters. Usually base to base is understood to be interpretive of somewhere between "striking reach" and in a "clinch".

 

If you are using mini's and their bases allow for it without chipping paint or falling over, putting 1 base slightly on top of the other's base can help present a "visual" for sharing the same map unit. If you really feel the need you can place a bead or marker next to the "sharing a hex" minis; I've rarely found this necessary. Unless your players have even shorter than usual attention spans, this really should not be a recurring problem.

[Killer Shrike]

Hello! I just bought Hero system and have read through most of the two main rule books. I was curious about using hex maps.

You can still use a hex map. I generally do.

 

But if one isn't handy or a I have a pre-printed map or something, a tape measure or ruler works just fine.

 

I know previous editions used hexes and the game went to meters (generally a good idea), but I don't even see optional rules or suggestions for hex maps in the core books. I LOVE using maps for combat.

What rules support do you need, exactly? Just use whatever map at whatever scale. The scale determines whatever translation needs to occur.

 

The use of maps wasn't changed. Just notation and assumptions.

 

Am I correct that the old scale was one hex = two meters?

Yes.

 

Is that what hex users are doing now?

...

 

Ok...lets get concrete here. I've got a roll-up Chessex hex map that we've used for years. In fact, I've had a succession of them over the last 20 plus years; this one has held up longer than usual but its functionally identical to the very first paper one I used in 1990 when I first started playing the HERO System.

 

And from then until now, from version 4e, thru 5e, and now 6e, the scale of an individual encounter is and can be set to whatever is expedient. By default 2m hexes is a convenient scale, but if the physical space being modeled requires it, each hex could represent 6m, 10m, 30m, 100m...whatever meters.

 

In 6e, this is even more convenient, and in PRACTICAL terms, it is easy to drop down to 1m hexes or up to 2m or 5m hexes. These three scales handle the vast majority of situations.

 

It was and is also possible to have a large chunk of the matte be highly scaled, for say a mass battle or a large location, and one corner or edge can be used for "up close" or skirmish distance as needed to resolve little snapshots of activity within the larger whole...or vice versa, you can use the majority of the matte for "skirmish" and a highly scaled corner as a "nav map" just like in many video games. Whatever works.

 

This prevents having to stop game play to re-map, and splitting the matte helps to manage multiple encounters simultaneously.

 

 

Personally, in 6e, I've found that resolving most typical encounters with 1m hexes tends to work out well and I tend to start there. The players seem more comfortable with counting by 1 and the sense of relative distance works out. But, if necessary, its a moments decision to "adjust the zoom"; I just state the scale, maybe write it on a yellow sticky and put it on the map so people remember at a glance.

 

 

If that's the case, how do you do reach for weapons. I assumed small and medium weapons would require you to be in an adjacent hex (1m and 2m reach respectively) and L and EL weapons would reach 2 hexes away (3m and 4m respectively).

You just factor the reach by the scale.

 

Also, given the large ground scale of 2m in one hex, how do people handle sharing hexes with opponents? Thanks for the help!

Just declare "these two mini's are in the same hex". More often than not, this comes up as part of a grab / grappling scenario, or with smaller than usual characters. Usually base to base is understood to be interpretive of somewhere between "striking reach" and in a "clinch".

 

If you are using mini's and their bases allow for it without chipping paint or falling over, putting 1 base slightly on top of the other's base can help present a "visual" for sharing the same map unit. If you really feel the need you can place a bead or marker next to the "sharing a hex" minis; I've rarely found this necessary. Unless your players have even shorter than usual attention spans, this really should not be a recurring problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map%E2%80%93territory_relation

 

The more accurate the map, the more it resembles the territory. The most accurate map possible would be the territory, and thus would be perfectly accurate and perfectly useless.

 

 

Also...tangentially related...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concretization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_misplaced_concreteness

 

 

Fundamentally, maps are an abstraction.

 

Scale has implications for the interpretation and meaning of maps. Implicit in the concept of scale is the tradeoff between abstraction and detail. Small scale (depicts a large area) implies more abstraction, large scale (depicts a small area) more concretion.

[docdoom77]

That was a very thorough answer Killer Shrike (is your username a Dan Simmons reference?). Thanks for that. I hadn't actually given thought to changing scale as needed, but it could definitely come up.... and be useful. I guess what started this for me, was personal waffling between 1m per inch, to 2m per inch. 1m is easy. No math, so my players would have one less thing to worry about, but 1m per inch makes for some very large-seeming AOEs and for hth combat in heroic games where minis don't actually look like they're anywhere near each other.

 

For those reasons, I'm thinking I'll use 1 hex = 2m as my standard for most encounters. I think it will provide the best visuals during combat. Thanks everyone for all the great replies.

[Killer Shrike]

That was a very thorough answer Killer Shrike (is your username a Dan Simmons reference?). Thanks for that. I hadn't actually given thought to changing scale as needed, but it could definitely come up.... and be useful. I guess what started this for me, was personal waffling between 1m per inch, to 2m per inch. 1m is easy. No math, so my players would have one less thing to worry about, but 1m per inch makes for some very large-seeming AOEs and for hth combat in heroic games where minis don't actually look like they're anywhere near each other.

 

For those reasons, I'm thinking I'll use 1 hex = 2m as my standard for most encounters. I think it will provide the best visuals during combat. Thanks everyone for all the great replies.

No, it is not a Dan Simmons reference.

 

It's a long story, but I started using it as my online pseudonym when I was still a teenager. The shrike is a predator bird with some interesting characteristics, and there's a variety in Africa with a very distinctive red and black coloring that appealed to me.

 

I originally used it for Mechwarrior. Later I used for Warhammer 40k...I made a custom Space Marine Chapter that eventually grew to be a full fieldable chapter (i.e. a ridiculously huge number of models; I could fill two fold out trestle tables with miniatures).

 

Anyway...the name has kind of outlived its usefulness, but I've been using it for so long I'm kind of invested in it at this point.

[Killer Shrike]

That was a very thorough answer Killer Shrike (is your username a Dan Simmons reference?). Thanks for that. I hadn't actually given thought to changing scale as needed, but it could definitely come up.... and be useful. I guess what started this for me, was personal waffling between 1m per inch, to 2m per inch. 1m is easy. No math, so my players would have one less thing to worry about, but 1m per inch makes for some very large-seeming AOEs and for hth combat in heroic games where minis don't actually look like they're anywhere near each other.

 

For those reasons, I'm thinking I'll use 1 hex = 2m as my standard for most encounters. I think it will provide the best visuals during combat. Thanks everyone for all the great replies.

RE: 1m vs 2m

 

I would suggest you just run a few encounters at both scales to compare and contrast. You may find that one appeals more to you than the other and use it preferentially. You may also find that each works better based on the type of encounter and its useful to use the one that best applies on a case by case basis.

[docdoom77]

Good advice. Thanks

[Jazzidemus]

I fell in love with the Old School Hex map when it came to using miniatures and the such. I think it makes it more dynamic and easier when plotting AoE's and the like. I myself still use the 1H = 2M

[docdoom77]

During our test game, we used 1H=2M and it worked very well, though it does take some getting used to for visualization purposes, when you've played other games where 1 Hex/Square = 1 yard/meter.  Overall, I think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks in most cases.