Adjudicating VPP's that have powers with long durations...

[Kraven Kor]

This question probably mostly applies to Fantasy HERO, but I can see it coming up in any genre.

Right now, for my Steampunk HERO campaign, I am trying to stick to the letter of the law so far as how much can be active in the VPP based on Pool costs and the real-point cost of each slot.

 

And, for now, I am not allowing anything that is "activate and leave running" without that power taking up its real points in the pool.  So you can have a power with a continuing charge, but for the duration that this charge lasts, the power is taking up part of your pool.

 

I know that it is legal to use things like Time Limit, Continuing Charges, or Delayed Effect to create powers that have a duration but are "fire and forget."

 

What is the official ruling on this for a VPP?  Is it legal to, say, buy a Damage over Time Healing Spell or a Costs-End-Only-to-Activate Armor spell, with Delayed Effect or similar to be able to activate this power, then remove it from your VPP pool to swap in another power, with the "duration" advantage letting the swapped-out power continue to apply?

 

Is that just all adjudicated in FH by the "INT / 5" active spells?

 

How do you / would you rule on such VPP slots?

[Greywind]

It would depend. In a lot of cases once the points are reallocated, the active power would just cease to operate altogether.

[Kraven Kor]

It would depend. In a lot of cases once the points are reallocated, the active power would just cease to operate altogether.

 

Well, that is for any power that doesn't have some sort of "duration" advantage that I am talking about.

 

In theory, if you build a Force Field that Only Costs End to Activate and has a single, continuing charge that lasts for 24 hours, one could configure VPP to include this power, activate it, then remove it from the VPP to free up the real points for other powers, while keeping the benefits of the Force Field.  I think that is even *legal* but could be wrong.

 

Continuing Charges, Time Limit, and Delayed Effect all work similarly in this regard, so far as my understanding goes.

[Greywind]

Once you change powers, the Advantages no longer apply, because the power isn't active.

[Grailknight]

Just like I'd handle the same powers in a multipower. If you switch the reserve away the power goes off.

 

Don't equate having the power to manifest(assigning points in the reserve) with altering the method of maintaing the power(END, Charges).

 

Continuous Mental powers and DoT are the exception not the rule.

[Grailknight]

BTW, the DoT healing spell is legal RAW.

[bluesguy]

I am setting up a Fantasy Hero campaign where there are essentially two 'levels' of magic.  If you are full blown mage you buy a VPP for your spells - the idea being a mage will be able to learn a lot of different kinds of magic and switch things up on the fly.  But someone who wants to learn a spell or two can - but they are less powerful, have side effects, etc.

 

But here comes the twist in connection with this conversation.  A bunch of the spells, for instance Runes and Potions being good examples, use Delayed Effect or Trigger or maybe Time Limit.  I was definitely going to limit the number available based on INT.

 

If the official ruling on VPP is that the real cost for a Rune lasts as long as that Rune could be used (i.e. I set up a Rune trap with a trigger to fire when the door opens) then the mages would be at a serious disadvantage.  After all a 'hedge mage' could learn one rune and cast it a bunch of different times (taking into account the INT rules).

[Grailknight]

I am setting up a Fantasy Hero campaign where there are essentially two 'levels' of magic.  If you are full blown mage you buy a VPP for your spells - the idea being a mage will be able to learn a lot of different kinds of magic and switch things up on the fly.  But someone who wants to learn a spell or two can - but they are less powerful, have side effects, etc.

 

But here comes the twist in connection with this conversation.  A bunch of the spells, for instance Runes and Potions being good examples, use Delayed Effect or Trigger or maybe Time Limit.  I was definitely going to limit the number available based on INT.

 

If the official ruling on VPP is that the real cost for a Rune lasts as long as that Rune could be used (i.e. I set up a Rune trap with a trigger to fire when the door opens) then the mages would be at a serious disadvantage.  After all a 'hedge mage' could learn one rune and cast it a bunch of different times (taking into account the INT rules).

 

The powers you describe would work fine. Those advantages and modifers are there so that the power is maintained now but does not go into effect until a later time.

[Kraven Kor]

Just like I'd handle the same powers in a multipower. If you switch the reserve away the power goes off.

 

Don't equate having the power to manifest(assigning points in the reserve) with altering the method of maintaing the power(END, Charges).

 

Continuous Mental powers and DoT are the exception not the rule.

 

That is kind of what I am thinking and leaning towards; but again when reading "Time Limit" or "Delayed Effect" or the like, it seems even the 24 Hour Continuous Charge Force Field would be legal RAW; and that is fine if so but I'll likely not allow it "as such."  

 

BTW, the DoT healing spell is legal RAW.

 

But is the 24 Hour Continuing Charge Force Field?  

 

In theory, an attack power has a "lasting effect" in the sense of the damage done; so swapping an attack out of the VPP does not undo the damage dealt.  Things are a bit trickier once looking at defensive powers or attack powers that don't just deal damage (entangle, for instance.)  Nobody would rule that if you entangled someone, then dropped the entangle from the VPP, the entangle effect would end.  (Or, heck, maybe some will argue that and are in fact correct.

[Armitage]

6E1 370 says "If a power with Continuing Charges is bought through a Multipower or VPP, and the character switches to another slot after using a Continuing Charge, the Continuing Charge does not immediately turn off."

 

However, that page and 6E1 401 (Frameworks with Charges) both say to "examine...carefully to ensure they don't unbalance the game" and "monitor this sort of power contruct to prevent abusiveness".

 

Remember:

How many Champions players does it take to change a lightbulb?

That's a GM call.

[Hyper-Man]

Something to consider that would balance this out quite nicely....

 

Dispel

 

A Dispel that takes down that Force Field takes it down for the remainder of the day.

[Armitage]

Plus, VPPs with Continuing Charges are really meant for things like Gadget Pools, so that once you use the charges, you have to go back to your lab or arsenal and spend time replacing them, since points put into a Focus are locked into that Focus until you change the Pool.

They're not meant for a spellcaster using his Magic Pool to cast a couple dozen all-day spells every morning.

[Grailknight]

Plus, VPPs with Continuing Charges are really meant for things like Gadget Pools, so that once you use the charges, you have to go back to your lab or arsenal and spend time replacing them, since points put into a Focus are locked into that Focus until you change the Pool.

They're not meant for a spellcaster using his Magic Pool to cast a couple dozen all-day spells every morning.

 

In all fairness, I can't see it being ok for the gadgeteer and not ok for the mage. The issue should be whether or not this is a valid use of VPP's.

 

If I were making the GM call, I would require points to remain allocated to the power. Then again, I'm very strict on VPPs.

 

I require a default special effect for all powers without variable advantage.

 

I don't allow any disadvantages on powers unless the disadvantages are applied to the control cost at purchase. If you want the option to change disads from power to power then I require Variable Disadvantages to be appled to the control cost.

[Kraven Kor]

So, Legal but GM beware.  Got it; kind of what I figured but wanted to be sure I was understanding things correctly.