Setting Up the Rules

[Aversill]

Huh.  Well, that makes sense about the Multipower.

 

I have Fantasy Hero 5th and 6th.  I have Star Hero and some supplements for 5th edition Fantasy Hero.  I've looked at the Grimoire and the Bestiary, but I'll be honest, I come from an age long, long ago.  We bought Enemies 1, 2, and 3, but mostly because they were somewhat humorous.  The general consensus back then was that the game designers were great....at designing games.  They couldn't design jack. I've gotten used to just building it myself, and for the most part, I prefer the results to what I've seen in the books. 

 

Oh, and I got the Monster Hunter book.   In general, I don't think much of the supplements, but I really like the company so I buy stuff that I hope will get me some cool ideas.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Huh.  Well, that makes sense about the Multipower.

 

I have Fantasy Hero 5th and 6th.  I have Star Hero and some supplements for 5th edition Fantasy Hero.  I've looked at the Grimoire and the Bestiary, but I'll be honest, I come from an age long, long ago.  We bought Enemies 1, 2, and 3, but mostly because they were somewhat humorous.  The general consensus back then was that the game designers were great....at designing games.  They couldn't design jack. I've gotten used to just building it myself, and for the most part, I prefer the results to what I've seen in the books. 

 

Oh, and I got the Monster Hunter book.   In general, I don't think much of the supplements, but I really like the company so I buy stuff that I hope will get me some cool ideas.

Things have changed quite a lot Aversill.  Change in ownership.  Change in Authorship.  The system is now a lot better designed as are the settings/characters/equipment.  Seriously, check out the stuff designed by the authors of the game and see if you like he balance.

[Ninja-Bear]

Ok my advice isn't the best but when the munchkin makes a nee character, copy I and that will become his arch nemesis!

[Archmage1]

The character is based on a character in d&d 3.5, of roughly 11th level(Or so).

Basically Shade, from Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, and Warlock, from Complete Arcane.

I'm not sure what the site rules are on posting copyrighted content is, but here are the highlights.

 

A shade gets an AC, attack, and damage boost in darkness.(The Aid was from this)

They can control the level of light around them.(Darkness)

They recover 2 hit points per round(equivilant to a phase).  The shade can't regain hit points in bright light.(Regeneration)

They can cast invisibility once per round.(Invisibility)

They can create images of themself three times per day.(The images)

They can teleport up to 500 feet once every two rounds as a move.(The non megascale teleport)

They can teleport anywhere once per day.(The megascale teleport)

They have SR(Ignored)

They have some boosted abilities and skills.(Ignored)

It is a CR +2 template, which makes it roughly the same as gaining 2 levels(But not exactly the same.)

 

Warlock gave me the idea for the following:

The base attack, and the item creation/use

 

The flash was a holdover from an older version of the character.

The desolidification was turning into a shadow.

 

It would have made a fairly cool, if somewhat underpowered 3.5 character.  In Hero, however... it was something else entirely.

[Archmage1]

The question in my mind is this:  Is it time to abandon this concept, and make a different one?  We just finished the first storyline, so now is the ideal time to be introducing different characters.

If we go down this path, producing a more balanced character should be much more doable than fixing what is broken.  Sometimes, the best solution is to just start over.  The character hasn't been much fun for me either, so I'm not too attached to him.  The idea, I think, is awesome, but the implementation isn't working.

[Steve]

Translating from D&D to Hero can be problematic, since the translations can end up as vastly overpowered abilities in Hero terms. This is why D&D runs into the so-called "Linear Fighters-Quadratic Wizards" issue that Hero can mostly avoid. High-level wizards can nuke a fighter before he can reach melee range in D&D, although 3rd Edition improved things.

 

Spellcasters at 225 points (Powerful Heroes in 6E) are not out of balance with a non-spellcaster of the same points, assuming the magic system used is reasonably constructed.

[Steve]

Regarding the interaction of Damage Reduction and regular defenses, the method I've seen used (and that I like) is to reduce the cap on defenses by five points per level of DR. Taking 50% Damage Reduction at a cost of ten points of defenses has always struck me as a reasonable balance since DR is applied after all other defenses.

[Chris Goodwin]

I've got a suggestion.  I won't feel bad if you don't like it.    

 

Back away from Fantasy Hero for a while and play a short Champions game.  Focus on playing comic book superheroes using the basic archetypes and Four Color sensibilities.  This will get the whole group used to seeing how the rules interact in the system's native genre, so to speak.  

[Chris Goodwin]

The character is based on a character in d&d 3.5, of roughly 11th level(Or so).

Basically Shade, from Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, and Warlock, from Complete Arcane.

I'm not sure what the site rules are on posting copyrighted content is, but here are the highlights.

 

So, if you were playing that character in a D&D game you're taking the stock description from the Monster Manual, right?  And then you get to take whatever customizations the Warlock and the rest of the system allow you.  But you're taking that concept into Fantasy Hero and designing your character from scratch.  

 

I'd say, if you really want to play that character, let Aversill convert the Shade from D&D himself and start with that.  

 

My personal preference as GM is to start characters a lot lower powered and with more "standard" fantasy archetypes.  Humans, elves, dwarves, halflings; priests, rogues, warriors, wizards.  If you want to play the stuff that's out there further, great; let's stick with the campaign a while, and you can eventually "unlock" the ability to play the monsters, not to mention that when the other PCs reach that power level via experience you can join them with a more powerful creature.  

 

Aversill, what are the other characters like?  

[Ndreare]

I would also suggest no more than -1 or even -1/2 in limitations for your starting game.

 

Heavily limited or heavily advantaged powers can be very, very effective.

Also consider restricting to no more than 2 power pools.

[Archmage1]

I was using the powers as more of a guideline of what I wanted the character to do.  

In retrospect, it is too powerful, when converted to Hero.  But, at the time, I didn't really know that.  I looked at each of the pieces, figured that it was inline, and went with it.  What I didn't consider was the combinations.

 

As Ndreare pointed out, heavily limited powers are very effective in the situations when the limitations don't apply, and this ends up with a lot of limitations.

(The multipower that handles most of the powers cost something like 25 points, with the powers inside it included.  It's a 55 active point power, with 8 or 9 55ish active subpowers inside it.)

 

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if Aversil is willing to consider making a new character.

[Archmage1]

Ok, I'm at the point where I don't think that the character can really be fixed without remaking him.

I would rather move on to a different character, without the baggage, and have the current character do something else.

 

Character concepts: 

Paladin/Cleric.  Basically, a guy in heavy armor with a weapon and clerical magic.

 

Something like The Witcher.  If you haven't played the games, he is a light-medium fighter, who uses potions/weapon oils to enhance his combat effectiveness.  He also has a limited repertoire of magical effects.  I'm currently thinking that we can convert the potions and stuff from the game, with some ommissions.  This is currently my favorite idea.

 

Druid:  Basically, stereotypical d&d druid.

[TheRealDeal]

For you Archmage1, a few pointers since you come from D&D:

 

When trying to design powers for your PC, especially if they were from another system, ask your GM to help you design the equivalent HERO version of those effects. This may require a significant application of limiations and weaknesses to the raw HERO powers used as a base. The first thing to focus on is to make sure the power works the same in both feel and power in HERO as it does in the other system, taking into account the different status tracking other systems have. D&D uses hitpoints and HERO Body and Stun. So the GM needs to set the damage of the power so they fit his feel for the damage it should do, since converting a hitpoint damage to a Body/Stun damage is not always trivial.

 

Once the GM feels good with the power level, then you can put your optimization mind into action to find a way to make that power cost the least for you, without increasing its actual power. This makes the GM happy in that the power will not be too much, but also lets you be happy to find a way to optimize the cost to be as low as you can make it. This may be a way to make both of you happy.The GM really does not care so much if you manage to shave off a few points of cost by creative accounting leaving you more points to spend elsewhere, provided the power itself is kept within his power limits.

 

The problem comes up when you start with say a D&D idea and try to make it in HERO and naturally if you are a power gamer/optimizer (nothing wrong with that BTW) you will focus FIRST on making the power as potent as possible, this is just built into most power gamers mentality. This leads to powers being made that constantly frustrate the GM. So instead of giving yourself that leeway, ask the GM to set the power level limit of the power, and then work within that power limitation to find a way to make it the cheapest you can. This is a way to put your optimizer mind into play without driving the GM nuts. Do not try to make the power better, once the GM sets the limit, stop and respect that, do not try to sneak in anything that makes the effect better, instead restrict yourself (self-discipline) to only working on making the power as cheap as possible in point cost. This makes your PC more broad and able to have more points to be useful in more situations (which is more fun) without being broken in any given situation (too powerful).  

 

See if that method is helpful.

[Archmage1]

Thank you for the advice, it sounds like it would have been quite helpful.  Sadly, it's much too late now.

 

Not all issues have a happy ending.