Dogs in the Bestiary

[austenandrews]

Is it just me, or should the dog writeups in the Bestiary have 10-15 STR more than listed? I've never seen a German Shepherd try the bench-press, but I'm positive it rates more than a -5 STR. A full-grown Rottweiler is surely as strong as a normal man, yet the guard dog lists at 0 STR.

 

Just wondering if anyone else has a similar gripe.

 

-AA

[Sociotard]

I just bought the Bestiary! It is a treasure trove of extremely cool stuff, I must confess, though I am annoyed there are no iguana's (that's my pet). The tail whip attack is awesome.

 

Oh, yes, dogs are the subject at hand. hmm, the -5 was for "LARGE/HUNTING" Dog. I would personally put a German Shepherd in the "GUARD/COMBAT DOG" category, because although it has often been used as a herding dog, it was primarily a wolf fighter in the early stages of its existence, and was one of the first to be introduced to police detail. The book lists such dogs as having a STR of 0.

 

It can be kind of tricky to pin STR on some animals, just because which muscles and bones are stronger or weaker mean they can be very strong, but not necessarily do the same things we can. For example, the largest dog I've ever seen personally (I worked at a pet store for 3 years) was a 200 lb Mastiff, the kind that lacks a clear distinction as to where its mouth begins and ends. If any dog could have a STR of 10 or 12, that would be it! That level of STR would allow it to pick up a human. Or me anyway, as I'm not nearly 100 kg. I would never try it. A dogs back just couldn't handle it! they aren't meant to haul that kind of weight. Did Lassie ever toss Timmy up on her back? NO! I think a German Shepherd would be best represented at an STR of 5. Pick up 50 kg? *thinks* yeah, I could see my labs pulling that off, if it was strapped on right.

 

There is one thing that I'm wondering right now. What are the rules for dragging objects? If it takes eight or ten well trained dogs to pull a (guesstimating) 200 Kg dogsled, and have the encumbrance vs. endurance work out to where they could run the iditarod (okay, those are the best sled dogs in the world, but you get my point.)

 

Back to hammering out my iguana!

[Vondy]

I'm not sure where I would put a dog strength wise (larger ones). On the one hand, they can't carry masses of weight like a horse can (though bigger dogs can carry small children on their backs and St. Bernards are occasionally equipped with saddle bags). On the other hand, dogs seem quite capable of pulling a goodly amount of weight, be it a sled with a man and gear, or someone they've sunk their teeth into. I've seen a Rottweiler pull a large man by the arm some 20 feet once he lost his balance (we unfortuanately had to severely harm the dog to get it off of him). I would think a truly large dog should come in at the 8-12 strength range, while small dogs should certainly be in the negatives.

[gewing]

My brother used to have his lab carry her food on camping trips, but I'd say less than 30lbs. Of course she was only 55-60lbs.

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by D-Man

I'm not sure where I would put a dog strength wise (larger ones). On the one hand, they can't carry masses of weight like a horse can (though bigger dogs can carry small children on their backs and St. Bernards are occasionally equipped with saddle bags). On the other hand, dogs seem quite capable of pulling a goodly amount of weight, be it a sled with a man and gear, or someone they've sunk their teeth into. I've seen a Rottweiler pull a large man by the arm some 20 feet once he lost his balance (we unfortuanately had to severely harm the dog to get it off of him). I would think a truly large dog should come in at the 8-12 strength range, while small dogs should certainly be in the negatives.

[Sociotard]

Rottweilers are tough customers, no doubt about it. I've heard of rottweilers biting out the tires on parked cars (it was a police cruiser, with a pair of terrified officers inside calling for backup. probably urban legend)

 

And speaking of Rottweilers, here's a power I just thought of that should've been in the bestiary that wasn't (as near as I can tell)

 

Lockjaw +20STR; 0 END(+1/2) Uncontrolled (+1/2); only to grab with jaws (-1) Jaw can break (-1/2) Real Point Cost: 16

 

The dog has the ability to "Lock its Jaw", such that even if the dog itself dies, it's jaw will remain locked on whatever it bit down on. The only way to escape is to break the dogs jawbone. As such, anyone who successfuly escapes the grab with brute force will have broken the dogs jaw automatically.

[austenandrews]

I don't think you can rate an animal's STR just based on carrying capacity, though. Sure, a dog's legs aren't designed for hauling things. I think that's covered in the 15pt. Physical Disadvantage (if not, maybe another Disad is in order).

 

Hero stats are centered around combat effectiveness. I'm inclined to think more in terms of STR v.s. STR contests. The giant breeds (Rotts, Mastiffs, St. Bernards) can easily overpower a normal man with simple muscle strength. Even the large breeds (German Shepherds, et al.) are more than many people can handle.

 

5E lists a small child at 0 STR. Do you really think a small child and a Rottweiler have equal STR?

 

-AA

[Simon]

If you want to talk dragging weight, dogs are insanely strong.

 

I've got a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog (still just a pup). At seven months, this "little" guy can already pull me off my feet....and I'm not that slight of a guy. I'm no longer able to beat him at tug of war competitions.

 

A full grown Swissy is capable of pulling upwards of 3000 pounds uphill (they often do in weight-pulling competitions).

 

Just as an FYI, the Swissy is the ancestor of the Rottweiler....they were used to create the breed. They were also used to create St. Bernards (and others). Normally, the males get to about 120-140 pounds....our guy is looking to be a LARGE Swissy....at 7 months, he's weighing in at 100 pounds. He'll continue to grow in height up through the 1 year mark, and then he'll start to fill out in muscle. He's looking to top 150 or 160 by the time all is said and done.

[austenandrews]

Exactly. For another example, my inlaws used to have a St. Bernard. Once they chained him to a wooden column on the porch to keep him from chasing a cat. When the cat came by again, he pulled the whole column off its cement screws and dragged it down the street. This was not a dog that a 0 STR person could grab and hold onto as an equal. And he wasn't especially large for a St. Bernard, either (probably in the 120# range).

 

-AA

[Sociotard]

Which brings me back to my original question, "What are the rules for dragging things?" I did a halfhearted search through fred and came up empty handed.

[Pattern Ghost]

The STR table lists the max weight a character can barely get off the ground and stagger a few steps with, so I'd say that since you don't have to get the weight off the ground, that the same chart can be used to get the character's max dragging weight. I'd just use the STR chart for dragging.