Multiple attack haymaker

[steph]

Hey guys. Yesterday a friend of mind in our fantasy game make a multiple attack (3 attacks ). Two strike sword and haymaker with is sword. He call this at segment 12. He resolve is two strike at 12 and the haymaker at 1. I was confused and i dont like opening the book in a game so i let him do it. Is it legal ? To use haymaker in a multiple attack. Haymaker is already a full phase action.

 

Ty guys in advance for your time and again excuse my english.

 

Steph

[Scott Baker]

Multiple Attack and Haymaker are both Combat Maneuvers. You can't perform 2 combat maneuvers in the same phase. Performing a combat maneuver ends your phase. (I don't have books to give you page references right now.)

[Hyper-Man]

From 6e2 page 68
 

A character may not Multiple Attack with Haymaker, nor Haymaker any attack that’s part of a Multiple Attack.

 

 

HM

[Hyper-Man]

Multiple Attack and Haymaker are both Combat Maneuvers. You can't perform 2 combat maneuvers in the same phase. Performing a combat maneuver ends your phase. (I don't have books to give you page references right now.)

 

Actually, you got the specific rule correct but not the reason. Multiple Attack DOES allow for the mixing of different combat maneuvers in a single Phase.

 

Steve Long doesn't provide a direct reason that I can see but I would hazard a guess that the prohibition against combining Haymaker and Multiple attack has to do with both including a 1/2 DCV Penalty so it is similar to the prohibition to combining attacks with mutually exclusive Limitations like Concentration.

 

From 6e2 page 74

Furthermore, unless another rule or the GM says otherwise, a character may make a Multiple Attack with any two or more attacks, without any restrictions on what types of attacks can be “mixed together.” (Though mixing certain types of attacks may entail an OCV penalty; see below.) For example, a character could:

 

• use a Martial Strike, an Offensive Strike, and a Defensive Strike against a single target or multiple targets

 

HM

[ghost-angel]

I suspect the restriction on Haymaker has more to do with it having a Delayed Phase more than anything else.

 

Using multiple combat maneuvers is exactly what Multiple Attack is for...

[Scott Baker]

Actually, you got the specific rule correct but not the reason. Multiple Attack DOES allow for the mixing of different combat maneuvers in a single Phase.

 

Steve Long doesn't provide a direct reason that I can see but I would hazard a guess that the prohibition against combining Haymaker and Multiple attack has to do with both including a 1/2 DCV Penalty so it is similar to the prohibition to combining attacks with mutually exclusive Limitations like Concentration.

 

From 6e2 page 74

 

HM

Actually you're still only performing 1 combat maneuver in a phase, Multiple Attack. That particular maneuver has the effect of allowing you to (in it's timeframe) perform multiple maneuvers. However you can't, in a single phase, perform a Multiple Attack in the first half phase, and then perform another combat maneuver (including Multiple Attack) in the second half phase. 

 

As for Haymaker, Steve might point out that the Multiple Attack maneuver does not allow you to use attacks that take extra time. Haymaker adds an extra segment (even though you aren't specifically buying the Extra Time Limitation). As for Haymakering a Multiple Attack, I'd just chalk that up to limiting rules abuse.

 

As for the OP post, in my original read I thought he wrote that the player was doing Multiple Attack for the 2 strikes, and then doing a Haymaker. Which would have been to combat maneuvers. Re-reading it does say all 3 are in the Multiple Attack, which is why you're call-out to the exclusion on Haymakers in a Multiple Attack, or on a Multiple Attack, is the correct answer.

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

Personally, as long as the Haymaker isn't in the middle of the sequence, I would allow it. 

 

Imagine...

 

 

A swordsman drives his sword with all his strength into the opponent, then swings twice to finish the job (Haymaker then 2 Strikes).

 

A swordsman slices at his opponents legs twice to immobilize him then drives his sword with all his might into the target's skull. (2 Strikes Then Haymaker)

 

 

Then again, it depends on dramatics, but I do think that this is possible. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Some maneuvers are exclusive, that is, they cannot be used with any other attack maneuver.  Thus, you can't do a sweep/dodge maneuver; its one or the other.  Haymaker is one that I would consider exclusive, and the rules seem to as well.  For multiple power attacks, I agree with the rules: Haymaker is by its definition an all-or-nothing complete attack in its self, an all-out blitzkrieg that negates any other maneuvers or attacks.