Levitation?

[Cantriped]

Rules as Written, it would take 12 phases to decelerate from terminal velocity with only 5m of Flight. During which time a character with 2 SPD will have fallen 1,830 meters.

 

55m+50m+45m+40m+35m+30m+25m+20m+15m+10m+5m+0m = 305m

305m x 6s = 1830m

 

Of course if the character Aborts to activate their power just after they begin falling, or the power Triggers automatically, they never reach Terminal Velocity (or gain any uncontrolled velocity at all), and therefore the limitation on Deceleration per Phase would be irrelevant to them.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Hm yeah there's kind of a gap in the rules right now.  You can get up to full speed basically instantly with a modifier, but slowing down is always keyed to your movement speed as well.  In other words, you have to buy gargantuan movement just to slow down from high speeds.  The acel/decel modifiers probably ought to read differently: instead of decelerate based on your movement power, it should be more absolute.

 

+1/4 to decel based on movement, +1 to decel to 0.

[Cantriped]

But then you'd get people buying:

Safe!: Flight 1m, Decelerate To Zero (+1) (2 APs). Total Cost:  2 points.

And then either Holding Action or Aborting to activate it immediately before impact. Gaining all of the (tentative) benefits of falling at up to 60m/segment, while suffering none of the penalties for only 2 CP.

 

Of course the following is also a legal option:

Safe! (Cheesy But Legal Edition): ​Flight 1m (1 APs) plus​ Teleport 1m, No Relative Velocity (11 APs); Linked (Flight; -1/4). Total Cost:  10 points (1+9).

[Christopher R Taylor]

Frankly I don't think its much of an exploit to not go splat.

[Cantriped]

That depends on why you would have gone splat... Being able to avoid taking 30d6 Falling damage at will should probably cost more than 10 points.

[dsatow]

That depends on why you would have gone splat... Being able to avoid taking 30d6 Falling damage at will should probably cost more than 10 points.

Why do you think its worth more?  ( and I am really curious here not just to make an argument)

 

Here's why I think it isn't an issue:

 

First off, while the damage is great, think about how many times you were in a situation where your character could take 30d6 falling damage in all your Hero games.  OK, now think how many times you have actually were in real peril of taking that damage.  My characters have fought in planes, in space, and on top of buildings and I would guess less than 1% of the games were in these locales.  Now I think about how many times I have been gassed and Life Support Need Not Breath being 10 points.  I would say the times I got gassed (effective or not) is way more than falling to my death.

[Ninja-Bear]

Cantriped your talking terminal velocity which takes 7 phases of unteripted falling. Flight would stop any additional acceleration based on falling. I.e if I fell 2 phases thats 20m velocity based on falling, if I activate flight on my third phase I'll go with you and have 20m of velocity but not a total of 30m.

 

You can make an extrodinary skill roll at -10. Breakfall from terminal velocity is an example for NO samage-hence the 28-

 

However for the super cheese: 2m t-port plus no relative velocity plus must move thru real space and 0 end. Sory didn't due math but its around 20ish ACT.

 

Oh one more point-pg 7 FHC "You can change anything!".

[Christopher R Taylor]

First off, while the damage is great, think about how many times you were in a situation where your character could take 30d6 falling damage in all your Hero games.  OK, now think how many times you have actually were in real peril of taking that damage. 

 

 

Well yeah, as a GM I want the risk to be there as a dramatic issue, not a genuine threat.  I don't want a character to actually be street pizza; then he's dead and the fun is out of the game for that player. And its not even a heroic, dramatic death, its just gravity and a sudden stop.

 

But really its not even about the damage.  Its about movement.  This power wouldn't stop a fist or an energy blast, its not defenses.

[Cantriped]

Cantriped your talking terminal velocity which takes 7 phases of unteripted falling.

Segments... not Phases. A SPD 2 Character who begins falling at the end of Segment 12 reaches Terminal Velocity at the end of segment 6 after having fallen 210m and gotten only 1 Phase.

 

Flight would stop any additional acceleration based on falling. I.e if I fell 2 phases thats 20m velocity based on falling, if I activate flight on my third phase I'll go with you and have 20m of velocity but not a total of 30m.

Or you could just Abort to activate 1m of Flight immediately as you start falling, and have at most 10m/s of velocity. 1m of flight will allow you to decelerate by 5m the first phase (the one you aborted), and then another 5m your next phase (6 segments and 30m fallen later if you only have 2 SPD). 

 

You can make an extrodinary skill roll at -10. Breakfall from terminal velocity is an example for NO samage-hence the 28-

Extraordinary Results Rolls actually are an optional rule, and require that you accept an additional -10 penalty. The standard penalty for making a Breakfall roll for Half-Damage at Terminal Velocity would be -15 (-1 per 4m velocity). Therefore an extraordinary Breakfall Roll for Zero-Damage at Terminal Velocity is -25 to the Roll... meaning your 28- only gives you a 3- roll... or about half-a-percent chance of success... good luck with that.

 

Why do you think its worth more?

Because similar powers that would prevent you from dying in that circumstances are all much more expensive. but really it just comes down the personal opinion. The 10 point power I presented above is perfectly legal and does the job just fine.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Or you could just Abort to activate 1m of Flight immediately as you start falling, and have at most 10m/s of velocity.

 

 

While its a sort of defensive move, its not really a defense, and I'm pretty certain that you can't use movement powers with an aborted phase.  Dive for Cover is an exception to this rule.

[Cantriped]

While its a sort of defensive move, its not really a defense, and I'm pretty certain that you can't use movement powers with an aborted phase.  Dive for Cover is an exception to this rule.

The list of "Defensive Actions" which may be Aborted to includes "Decelerating or turning while moving, operating a vehicle, or riding a mount" (CC 138).

[Ninja-Bear]

Cantriped i did mean segments not phases. You are correct.

 

Still accounting for terminal velocity I say is overkill. I understand you want to go with the letter of the law but I rather stick with the intent. Btw do you know where it talks about leaping is only 1/2 value when doing a veritical leap in FHC? I can't seem to find it though I know its a rule however I was surprised to find flight is 2m per 1m vertical movement.

[Doc Democracy]

Is the answer to this to make a difference between combat deceleration/acceleration and non-combat? It seems unfair that gravity is accelerating you every phase and, despite you firing your boots continuously, they only have an impact twice every six seconds (for a SPD 2 character).

 

In combat, you can move to phased movement, which might mean a fall kills you quicker but you are being distracted by other things....

[Cantriped]

Is the answer to this to make a difference between combat deceleration/acceleration and non-combat? It seems unfair that gravity is accelerating you every phase and, despite you firing your boots continuously, they only have an impact twice every six seconds (for a SPD 2 character).

 

In combat, you can move to phased movement, which might mean a fall kills you quicker but you are being distracted by other things....

Segment... Gravity accelerates you every Segment.

Once you turn on the Movement Power gravity stops accelerating you, but you keep any remaining velocity after deceleration your movement power couldn't negate... That seems entirely fair to me. Its not like it is all that expensive to negate velocity, even Terminal Velocity. 

[Doc Democracy]

i was SO sure I had written segment! :-)

 

I think you have gotten things slightly wrong though. I was going to make fun of immediately losing gravitic acceleration down and immediately beginning to accelerate upwards as breaking the deceleration rules....then I read the rules again. I am going to resent being forced to do that so often....

 

Anyway. Our SPD 2 character acts, gets knocked out the airplane his next action is on segment 6. By that time his velocity is 60m. I am presuming 12m flight and on segment 6 he begins to accelerate upwards. If I presume initial acceleration to be 0, we are at terminal velocity, first metre of flight reduces downward velocity to 55, next to 50. By the time he has flown 12m the downward velocity is 0. Stationary in the air. He will have fallen 240m, I allowed 30m down for the segment in which he accelerates upward.

 

So, not as terrible as I thought. Deceleration of 5m per metre travelled. Not 5m per phase. Your example is only true if the spd2 character only had 1m of flight.

 

Doc

[Cantriped]

Anyway. Our SPD 2 character acts, gets knocked out the airplane his next action is on segment 6. By that time his velocity is 60m. I am presuming 12m flight and on segment 6 he begins to accelerate upwards. If I presume initial acceleration to be 0, we are at terminal velocity, first metre of flight reduces downward velocity to 55, next to 50. By the time he has flown 12m the downward velocity is 0. Stationary in the air. He will have fallen 240m, I allowed 30m down for the segment in which he accelerates upward.

Not quite.

First, you don't "accelerate upwards" to cancel your downward velocity, you simply "decelerate".

Second, the maximum you can accelerate or decelerate per phase is equal to your meters of movement (which is why it generally takes at least 2 phases to reach maximum noncombat velocity). So in the above example (a SPD 2 Character with 12m of Flight) you can only decelerate 12m each phase.

[Doc Democracy]

Good point, I need to keep reading when I go to the manual! So I go back to my original gripe, why is acceleration/deceleration broken in that the first turning on of a power gains 10m acceleration in automatically reversing gravitic acceleration? It is what the rules say but does not make sense. Acceleration and deceleration are effectively the same thing.

 

I maintain it is unfair that the environment gets to apply a constant acceleration, segment by segment but non-combat flight does not. It is equally as inconsistent as gravity based acceleration disappearing the second a flight power is switched on...

[Doc Democracy]

I guess desperation means I push my five metres of flight and use it non-combat, so get 20m of deceleration in the first phase. Don't even need to push in the second phase...

[Cantriped]

Good point, I need to keep reading when I go to the manual!

This is one of the many reasons why I prefer CC/FHC, its rules are much condensed so its easier to find relevant passages.

 

I maintain it is unfair that the environment gets to apply a constant acceleration, segment by segment but non-combat flight does not. It is equally as inconsistent as gravity based acceleration disappearing the second a flight power is switched on...

I just think of Gravity as a phenomenon with an effective SPD of 12 (so that it gets a phase every segment to accelerate you with), and something like:

Megascaled AoE (Whole Planet) UAA Flight 10m, x6 Noncombat Multiplier plus​ Blast ~24d6; Linked (Flight), Limited (Total DCs cannot exceed Velocity/2).

 

To be fair, acceleration and deceleration both use the exact same rules. CC/FHC puts it quite elegantly in that regard by saying:

 

"A character can accelerate at a rate of 5m per meter, up to his maximum normal Combat Movement in meters per Phase."

...

"A character decelerates at the same rate."

 

I guess desperation means I push my five metres of flight and use it non-combat, so get 20m of deceleration in the first phase. Don't even need to push in the second phase...

Acceleration & deceleration is based on your Combat Velocity only. Which is why unless you have Noncombat Acceleration/Deceleration (+1) it always takes a number of phases equal to your Noncombat Multiplier to reach your maximum noncombat velocity (or decelerate from your maximum noncombat velocity).

Your best bets for surviving a fall from terminal velocity are to use one of the builds I've posted above. The build in post #20 is entirely legal and also the least abusive. The second build in post #28 is the cheapest option (at only 10 points), and technically legal, but also abusive as hell (So much so I'm not sure I would allow it... and I wrote it!).

[Ninja-Bear]

Breakfall (CC 26) only halves Falling Damage, so a Terminal Velocity Fall will still cause an average of 15 BODY and 52 STUN.

 

 

I'm not taking into account any Optional Rules... I'm reading the rules exactly as they are written, and building a construct accordingly.

"Acceleration, Deceleration, and Gravity" (CC 131) isn't an optional rule, nor are Falling (CC 139), Movement Powers (CC 49), Flight (CC 69), Combat Acceleration/Deceleration (CC 101), or Noncombat Acceleration/Deceleration (CC 111).

What "Optional Rule" did you think I was "taking into account"?

Any rule can be changed to enhance the game. FHC. I say the accel/decel anf gravity rules are a hiderance, hence I don't use them. I to be all about the rules, now I'm about the game.

 

Btw did you find leap being half distance for vertical distance?

[Ninja-Bear]

But then you'd get people buying:

Safe!: Flight 1m, Decelerate To Zero (+1) (2 APs). Total Cost: 2 points.

And then either Holding Action or Aborting to activate it immediately before impact. Gaining all of the (tentative) benefits of falling at up to 60m/segment, while suffering none of the penalties for only 2 CP.

 

Of course the following is also a legal option:

Safe! (Cheesy But Legal Edition): ​Flight 1m (1 APs) plus​ Teleport 1m, No Relative Velocity (11 APs); Linked (Flight; -1/4). Total Cost: 10 points (1+9).

Why buy flight with t-port. You don't need.

[Cantriped]

Why buy flight with t-port. You don't need.

Simple... So that if you activate the compound power while you are still 300m off the ground you can hover instead of beginning to fall to your doom again. Thereafter you can float lazily back to earth at a nice, safe 1m/Phase.

 

 

[Cantriped]

Btw did you find leap being half distance for vertical distance?

Yes, it is covered by the rules for "Acceleration, Deceleration, and Gravity" (CC 131), which lists all of the movement powers which Gravity applies to.

[Ninja-Bear]

 

Simple... So that if you activate the compound power while you are still 300m off the ground you can hover instead of beginning to fall to your doom again. Thereafter you can float lazily back to earth at a nice, safe 1m/Phase.

 

 

 

Still don't need to if you are t-porting and nonrelative velocity.

[Cantriped]

Still don't need to if you are t-porting and nonrelative velocity.

You do if you want to completely avoid Falling Damage.

Using teleport to negate your existing Velocity won't prevent you from acquiring more immediately afterward. Even if you Abort to activate Safe​! (Sans Flight Edition) right before the beginning of the segment in which you would hit the ground you could still be as high as 60m from the ground, and you'll begin falling again right after you finish teleporting (resulting in you taking up to 15d6 of Falling Damage before you can Abort again). Paying just 1 extra CP for Safe! (Cheesy But Legal Edition) ​instead allows you to hover almost indefinitely, or descend at a controlled rate the remaining distance after you finish Teleporting to negate Terminal Velocity.