When is a Multipower not appropriate?

[Manic Typist]

One of my PCs wants to have a magical gauntlet that provides constant rProtection and also a MP.

 

The MP has 3-4 different kinds of attacks and one Barrier.

 

I've never used a MP, so I'm reviewing the rules, and the described intention of a MP is that a character should have to choose between powers and balance the level of points going into each slot. So if you are a wizard using a staff MP to fly, you have to consider reducing your personal force field or your amount of flight if you want to use a blast (assuming they are variable slots), or even land entirely (if they are fixed slots and therefore to free up points you need to turn one or more powers off).

 

This makes sense, both in terms of what a MP is (a common source of power divided up among different power manifestations, like an engine powering a ship if you will) and how it works - you get points savings for this limiting feature.

 

However, the way the PC the gauntlet is described, and most of the examples in the opening of the MP section, aren't consistent with this.

 

Most attacks, and certainly not the attacks the book uses or the PC would use, do not last more than a Phase. Therefore the example "lazer rifle" and gauntlet would typically only be used one way each Phase.

 

It seems like this is only limiting if the PC ever intended to regularly Sweep attack with the gauntlet.

 

Am I way off base here? Am I missing something?

[Hugh Neilson]

The "attacks multipower" is pretty common. he can choose between the attacks, but only use one at a time. If he bought them outside a MP, he could Combined Attack with all of the attacks in a single attack action. It represents, to me, having a variety of attacks that could be selected, only one at a time. The Enterprise has a tractor beam, Phasers and Photon Torpedoes. It can only fire one in each phase. Too bad - holding the other ship with a Tractor Beam while blasting it with torpedoes and phasers would be pretty devastating.

[Cantriped]

It is a fairly standard character design practice to purchase a Multipower Reserve with all (or most) of their Attack and Utility powers, and then purchase one or more Defense and Movement powers outside of the Reserve. Any maintained Attack and Utility powers are frequently bought outside the reserve as well.

There are a few tricks for maintaining multiple Reserve Slots, such using Uncontrolled or Time Limit, but they aren't very efficient.

 

The above reasons are why I don't like Magic Systems that force the character to buy everything through a Framework.

[Hyper-Man]

You may find this old post useful as well:

 

Multipower vs VPP

 

 

Multipowers, VPP's and the Variable Advantage are 3 similar tools that can be used to describe one Meta-Power of Special Effect X.

Example:

• 87 Special Effect X Attack: Energy Blast 10d6, Variable Advantage (+1/2 Advantages; Limited Group of Advantages: +3/4)
  • [87 Total Points]
  • This is the simplest to judge the effectiveness of and functions like a 3-4 ultra slot multipower with the limitation that it can't be used without SOME type of advantage.
  • Optionally, you can remove the "Limited" verbage and increase the cost to 100 Total Points
• 75 Special Effect X: Multipower, 75-point reserve
  • 7u Energy Blast 10d6, Random Advantage #1 (+1/2)
  • 7u Energy Blast 10d6, Random Advantage #2 (+1/2)
  • 7u Energy Blast 15d6
  • [96+ Total Points, or more depending on the number of different slots purchased]
  • Better than Variable Advantage option since it allows for non-advantaged attack.
• 130 Special Effect X: Variable Power Pool, 75 base + 74 control cost, Cosmic(+2) (186 Active Points); all slots Limited Class Of Powers Available Very Limited (Special Effect X: -1)
  • [130 Total Points]
  • This functions as an Unlimited # of slots Multipower.
  • It is more powerfull And Cost Effective than option 2 as soon as you have more than 7 slots.

• Special Effect X can be replaced with anything (fire, cold, electricity, etc..).
• Random Advantage can be replaced with any (+1/2) Advantage or combination of two different (+1/4) Advantages.

All 3 methods are perfectly valid ways to construct an attack that has an effective 75 active point cost and has several different ways it can be used. Each version is a balance of Cost Effectiveness VS. Usefullness.

HM

 

 

HM

[bigdamnhero]

Sounds like you want Fixed slots rather than Variable ones.

[DasBroot]

Multi-power is powerful and versatile but without it many characters archetypes just don't work or become prohibitively expensive.

 

I slap 'attack' multi powers on pretty much every character I can for another reason - to feel like I'm making real progress when spending experience (Fire Blasting Man started with a blast and a simple AoE blast in there, but after several adventures and 18 experience (and buying fixed slots) he's added a smoke screen, a wall of fire, and can extend his amazing heat protection to others).

 

Without a multi-power he'd probably still be working on the smoke screen.

 

It's almost never limiting (especially for attacks) but it's not really meant to be. It's meant to provide variety.  There isn't a character out there that can't benefit from one, either - even a martial artist could fill it with various Hand Attacks with special modifiers on them (an armor piercing punch, a double knockback kick, etc).

[Manic Typist]

Sounds like you want Fixed slots rather than Variable ones.

They are. My main hangup was that it doesn't seem very limiting and the book was stressing that; however it appears that a Multipower is only intended to be slightly limiting. Which is fine.

[Manic Typist]

It is a fairly standard character design practice to purchase a Multipower Reserve with all (or most) of their Attack and Utility powers, and then purchase one or more Defense and Movement powers outside of the Reserve. Any maintained Attack and Utility powers are frequently bought outside the reserve as well.

There are a few tricks for maintaining multiple Reserve Slots, such using Uncontrolled or Time Limit, but they aren't very efficient.

 

The above reasons are why I don't like Magic Systems that force the character to buy everything through a Framework.

 

Aren't the reasons you describe situations in which the character wasn't forced to buy everything through a Framework, since they are keeping their Utility/Defense powers outside the Framework?

[dsatow]

The main disadvantage with multipowers is that the attacks can not be used in a multiple attack scenario.  Either using the maneuver or by by use of constant powers.

 

For example, a mentalist powering a mind control in a multipower can not continue to power that mind control and fire a telepathy at the same time.

 

A person with a armament multipower like many writeups of Iron man, can not fire all his attacks against a target at one time (repulsors, unibeam, antitank missile, etc.).

[Hyper-Man]

The main disadvantage with multipowers is that the attacks can not be used in a multiple attack scenario.  Either using the maneuver or by by use of constant powers.

 

For example, a mentalist powering a mind control in a multipower can not continue to power that mind control and fire a telepathy at the same time.

 

A person with a armament multipower like many writeups of Iron man, can not fire all his attacks against a target at one time (repulsors, unibeam, antitank missile, etc.).

 

That is only true IF the Multipower has only enough Reserve to only use 1 Slot at at time.  It is possible to create a Multipower (as well as a VPP) with Fixed Slots where 2 can be used simultaneously and in that case 2 different 'Attack Powers' could possibly be used in a Multiple Attack Sequence.  See my rookie Superman and Flash builds (6e VPP versions on this site. 5e Multipower versions on Killershrike.com) for examples.

 

HM

[DasBroot]

If you have the reserve (say 120 points) to use two 60 AP attacks at once (vanilla them as 12d6 blasts - one vs ED, one vs PD) with a penalty for multi attacking wouldn't you be better off using a single 24d6 without penalty?

 

Enough reserve for two attacks at once only really makes sense if there's a DC limit in the game with a much higher or non-existent AP limit.  I am a fan of high reserve, low AP powers in a travel/utilty pool though - you can't run all your life supports at once, but you can run two or three, etc.

[Netzilla]

If you have the reserve (say 120 points) to use two 60 AP attacks at once (vanilla them as 12d6 blasts - one vs ED, one vs PD) with a penalty for multi attacking wouldn't you be better off using a single 24d6 without penalty?

 

That argument generally applies whether the attacks are in a Multipower or not.

 

To the original poster, yes, Multipowers are less of a restriction if you only put attack powers in them, but there is still some reduction in flexibility as mentioned by previous posters.  Theoretically, you could modify the Slot Cost for powers based on if they were Instant vs Continuous but I doubt anyone really wants to get into that level of fiddly math.

[Cantriped]

Aren't the reasons you describe situations in which the character wasn't forced to buy everything through a Framework, since they are keeping their Utility/Defense powers outside the Framework?

What I meant was that I dislike systems that force all game elements of a given special effect (like Spells) to be purchased through a specific Framework precisely because said systems run counter to the most efficient and reasonable methods for building a character. In other words, a Wizard shouldn't be forced to put ​​their Shield​ spell in a framework with their ​Magic Missile​ spell if the player's intention is to use both spells simultaneously.

[Manic Typist]

What I meant was that I dislike systems that force all game elements of a given special effect (like Spells) to be purchased through a specific Framework precisely because said systems run counter to the most efficient and reasonable methods for building a character. In other words, a Wizard shouldn't be forced to put ​​their Shield​ spell in a framework with their ​Magic Missile​ spell if the player's intention is to use both spells simultaneously.

That's fair, and if there isn't a reason for it, they shouldn't be forced to.

 

However, if the game world's magic system calls for limitations on spells such as you can only have so many on at once, then requiring a framework to represent that limit seems reasonable.

 

The mechanics you use/allow should support the narrative of the game, not drive it.

[Cantriped]

Likewise, the narrative should drive the mechanics you use to represent it.

If your world has a metaphysical law that states a spellcaster can only ever maintain a single spell at a time, than forcing all spells to be bought as fixed slots in a multipower is an appropriate restriction for its magic system.

That just isn't usually how I see spellcasters portrayed in fiction, so it isn't how I build magic systems anymore. Its quite common to see a fictional spellcaster flying around in a magic bubble and hurling bolts of magic at their spellcasting opponent (who is also flying around in a magic bubble and hurling bolts of magic back at them).