how to model Unluck usable on others

[shadowcat1313]

I have a character who has a mystical based power that causes anyone who attacks him from behind to make an immediate 4D6 unluck roll.

 

currently its bought as 4D6 Unluck, usable on others as an attack with no conscious control.

 

or would it be bought as a damage shield with a trigger?

 

any ideas.

 

the character is a gypsy heritage acrobat/aerialist Martial Artist named Eight Ball

 

and yes the "Behind the Eight Ball" pun was done on purpose

[zornwil]

If I recall correctly, you're not "supposed" to make Luck usable against others, it's supposed to be a Transform, but I don't recall where I saw this - I do believe that's the "official" rule, for what that's worth.

 

But I don't like that, it is a machinegun being used against a fly, and doesn't fit well into most conceptions (what basis is there for having to affect the entire BOD worth of the target)? However, simply using "trigger" alone (no DS needed) with "usable against others" is problematic primarily in that this IS an attack (even if limited) that (to me anyway) seems to far outweigh buying a Disad and then applying modifiers and targeting it. This is a general issue with Disads; they are not representative - at all - in points as attacks. They work fine as "conditions" but they are not attacks.

 

The SFX aren't entirely clear, so a number of important questions come up:

1 - is it just "behind" him? what if someone launches an Indirect attack from far away?

2 - how does this really work? are there mystical forces looking out for the character? or is his mind reaching out and perceiving what's going on and then reacting? this isn't quite so important (at least not necessarily) in defining the power itself, but certainly necessary for the GM to understand - of course if this is a PC and if you're like a lot of players I know, you may have left this undefined so that the GM can figure it out

2b - also, how does this really strike? does the character become unbalanced in his mind or is something reaching out and "touching" him?

3 - yes, it's "unluck" but is there any specific effect in mind? or it just that vague?

 

I'd tend to go with some form of attack power, whether Mind Control or Telekinesis, with an Uncontrolled (assuming the effect varies and the PC is unaware) and Trigger. Possibly tied to an Uncontrolled Danger Sense (with some heavy limitations for that if the PC is unaware, as he should be).

[Lord Liaden]

Well, according to the description of the Luck Power, Luck can manifest as good things happening to the character, or as bad things happening to a character's opponent. The GM rolls for the character's Luck when he thinks it appropriate; it's not supposed to be used too often, but I would think that defining it as only functioning if someone attacks the character from behind would be sufficiently limiting.

 

So, if it was up to me, I'd just buy the character 4d6 of Luck, defined as only working when the character is attacked from behind (-0 Limitation), and always affecting the character's attacker (another -0).

 

YMMV.

[shadowcat1313]

we always ran it as his rear arc, and that he had to be directly targeted. and yes its that vague, considering how vague the actual disadvantage is as to its affects. its assume to be some sort of mystic force.

[CrosshairCollie]

Since you can't (or rather, aren't supposed to) buy Unluck Useable As Attack, work from the other direction ... what does the power actually *do*? Judging from what you said, it makes people miss you because something unfortunate happens to them ... sometimes. So ...

 

Defense Maneuver to get your full DCV against back-attacks, and DCV levels, activation roll, only to defend against back-attacks.

 

Or, if it must be specifically targetted, a DEX Drain that only affects CV (I'm not a big fan of Penalty Skill Levels on others, but Your Mileage May Vary).

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

IMO there are many ways you could do this but the easiest are:

 

Armor & DCV levels with the special effect of "PC got lucky"

 

Change Environment with Trigger.

[Lord Liaden]

CC and VG, these are excellent suggestions if what shadowcat1313 is looking for is simply avoidance or reduction of damage, and that that should happen predictably whenever he's targetted from the back. That might very well be his intention, but since he specified that the attacker makes "an immediate 4d6 Unluck roll," I based my previous suggestion on that mechanic. At the 4d6 level it's possible for more spectacular luck events than just not being hit: the attacker could be struck by falling debris, his gun could explode as he fires, he could realize that his target is an ex-lover, and so on.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

CC and VG, these are excellent suggestions if what shadowcat1313 is looking for is simply avoidance or reduction of damage, and that that should happen predictably whenever he's targetted from the back. That might very well be his intention, but since he specified that the attacker makes "an immediate 4d6 Unluck roll," I based my previous suggestion on that mechanic. At the 4d6 level it's possible for more spectacular luck events than just not being hit: the attacker could be struck by falling debris, his gun could explode as he fires, he could realize that his target is an ex-lover, and so on.

 

Unluck is a mechanic … and one that isn’t really designed to be useable on others. What we were suggesting is other ways to get the same effect using different mechanics.

 

IMO Change Environment defined correctly could do pretty much everything covered in your examples with the possible exception of the ex-lover. It can even give penalties to hit making it pretty much the perfect choice IMO for making others suffer bad luck.

 

The DCV levels, armor, defense maneuver, etc. can easily cover the “Your opponent starts to stab you in the back but slips on a banana peel someone dropped yesterday. He misses you but doesn’t fall.†kind of things. It’s all a matter of special effect and good descriptions by the GM.

[zornwil]

Whatever the case, I'd like to see HERO handle the application of disads "against" opponents more elegantly than it does now (I believe, as stated earlier, that the "official" direction is Transform - there needs to be a better way, that is too vague/inconsistent with other "UAO" type things).

[shadowcat1313]

I like the idea of the unluck against others, because the character has no control over what happens, he cant deliberately set somebody up, and the affects are quite variable... the player has no clue whats going to happen, if it happens at all.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by shadowcat1313

I like the idea of the unluck against others, because the character has no control over what happens, he cant deliberately set somebody up, and the affects are quite variable... the player has no clue whats going to happen, if it happens at all.

 

Yes, but just applying the Disad for its points and the Advantage doesn't effectively communicate the level of power it brings. The scale of points for Disads and attacks/powers is different, as the former is an ongoing campaign condition while the latter is a "usage" instance.

[The Monster]

Here's a couple possibilities, more lateral thinking than anything definitely useful:

 

Would a Teleport Damage Shield fit? You could make this against the attacker - teleport, say 0-1" plus position shift, to represent falling down or just missing really badly.

 

You could also make the Teleport on oneself, as sort of a automatic dive-for-cover effect which just moves the PC out of harm's way (though a fat DCV boost would cover this as well).

 

You might be able to twist a Telekinesis Damage Shield/Trigger with an Uncontrolled variant to make bad things happen (though Change Environment's probably more efficient and reasonable).

 

Get really wild, make it a Flash effect to represent the attacker getting distracted somehow (punch up the Flash with AP or Penetrating?).

 

Getting more messy, there could be two effects: one a Missile Deflection, the other a Damage Shield of some bizarre kind, since MD doesn't work against melee.

[Brandi]

Shadow-- you never said in this thread but have you looked at the Luck Powers in the USPDB (the actual book version)?

[Maccabe]

Unluck 6d6

 

There was a character (NPC) I created with this kind of power. Try: DEXTERITY (drain or suppress), CV=0 (they always miss, even stationery objects) Dex=0; they trip on their own shadow.

[Fireg0lem]

Why not just use the Inflict Negative Combat Levels listed in FREd under CSLs (at least, I think that's where it is)?