Dogpiling and more

[mallet]

Hi all, any help or thoughts would be welcome. 

 

First, in Hero Designer there is the Martial Arts maneuver Flying Tackle. Does anyone know where the write up for this is? I can't find it in 6th ed Vol 2 or in the 6th ed. Martial Arts book (it is also not listed in the index for either). Also, since there is a Flying Tackle, is there a normal Tackle that anyone can do (a basic combat maneuver)? I couldn't find anything for that either. 

 

Second, does anyone know if there are rules for Dogpiling on a character, like they do in Football? I would assume that it would have to take place after a Target is Tackled, or already Prone. Then the other Characters would jump on him/her. 

My thinking that to Escape from under a dogpile the GM would add the weights of all the Characters on top of the Target together, and then that would be the "combined STR" of the dogpile that the Target character would have to roll against? But then that is only using brute STR to escape, like maybe those times in comics when a bunch of characters pile on the Hulk and he stands up sending them all flying, but in say football or some movies where this happens, the Target Character finds a way to wiggle out from under the pile, often without the attackers noticing, and then running away. This might be like using Contortionist skill to escape? 

 

Third, how would you calculate damage done to the target by all the other characters jumping on to him/her? This happens in football a lot, and doesn't often seem to do any damage to the person on the bottom (but sometimes it does), but then football players are big, strong and wearing armor. What would happen (how much damage) to a normal person, not wearing armor? 

 

Any thoughts or suggestions would be great!

 

 

Thanks!

[ghost-angel]

1) interesting, no description for it. It is listed in the Maneuver list in the Martial Artist books (5E and 6E); It does what it says on the tin: Full Move Action; Everyone Falls; Velocity adds to Damage.

 

2) There aren't really. But I would imagine it might involve Grab + Teamwork to keep a target held. I would give +5 STR for each additional person in the pile to get out (adds 1D6, effectively doubling STR).

 

3) Standard Teamwork Roll to add up all the Stun damage.

[dsatow]

4 hours ago, mallet said:

Second, does anyone know if there are rules for Dogpiling on a character, like they do in Football? I would assume that it would have to take place after a Target is Tackled, or already Prone. Then the other Characters would jump on him/her. 

My thinking that to Escape from under a dogpile the GM would add the weights of all the Characters on top of the Target together, and then that would be the "combined STR" of the dogpile that the Target character would have to roll against? But then that is only using brute STR to escape, like maybe those times in comics when a bunch of characters pile on the Hulk and he stands up sending them all flying, but in say football or some movies where this happens, the Target Character finds a way to wiggle out from under the pile, often without the attackers noticing, and then running away. This might be like using Contortionist skill to escape? 

 

Third, how would you calculate damage done to the target by all the other characters jumping on to him/her? This happens in football a lot, and doesn't often seem to do any damage to the person on the bottom (but sometimes it does), but then football players are big, strong and wearing armor. What would happen (how much damage) to a normal person, not wearing armor? 

 

 

OK, the way I would proceed here is what are the players trying to do and use the rules to simulate it.  

 

1) The players (the dog pile-ers) are effectively using their weight to hold down the person.

2) The jumping on of the players might induce some damage to those below the top player.

 

To simulate #1, is simply the amount of weight being simulated as Strength.  One person equals 100kg or 10 Strength.

People   Strength

1             10

2             15

3             18

4             20

6             23

8             25

12           28

16           30

 

To simulate #2, the person directly being dropped upon would be taking a move through but using gravity (jumping up and falling on the target).  The velocity of gravity would probably add +1d6N and Strength can be substituted with weight (normal weight would be 10 strength).  The person on the bottom would take crushing damage based on the weight of every on above them, so if 8 people were dog piling on 1 person, they would take 25 Strength or 5d6 crushing damage.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Just a plain tackle is a throw where you also fall down, I'd probably give 5 STR but no velocity damage to a throw.  This reminds me of my plan on digging up the "zero cost martial arts" I built up using Ninja Hero ages ago.  Martial Arts maneuvers that cost nothing and anyone can use (you can TRY to do a legsweep, you're just terrible at it).

 

Quote

Second, does anyone know if there are rules for Dogpiling on a character, like they do in Football? I would assume that it would have to take place after a Target is Tackled, or already Prone. Then the other Characters would jump on him/her

 

Well each character past the strongest would just add 5 STR to the throw/hold in my book.

[Toxxus]

If a player of mine wants to do a Move Through and Grab I make it a Flying Tackle.  Success = Grab & both fall prone.  Failure = fall prone alone with the penalty that you can't use Breakfall to instantly pop-up to your feet next phase.

 

This makes it an exciting high-risk maneuver in a chase scene.  If you fail the fleeing party will get at least a 1/2 phase move lead as you pull yourself up and start running again.

[eepjr24]

I have always considered the Sacrifice Throw to be the "Tackle" of the martial arts world:

 

Sacrifice Throw ½ 3 +2 +1 STR Strike; You Fall, Target Falls

 

However, Tackle and Flying Tackle are used interchangeably in the Hero System Martial Arts (6e).

 

As far as a standard maneuver, Trip is about the closest you get to that (6e2,  83).

 

For DogPile, that to me would just be a grab and squeeze or slam, with +5 STR (or 1d6) for additional attackers.

 

- E

[Christopher R Taylor]

That is essentially what a tackle is, but of course Sac Throw isn't a standard combat maneuver, which is a bit of an oversight.