Examples of Conditional and Constrained

[ideasmith]

Conditional and Constrained are, well, a bit vague about just what is and isn’t appropriate. So I thought it would be useful to set up a thread of possible examples for discussion. Here are some to start with:  

 

All Powers                          

Constrained/Counts Towards Pool Limit

                         

Constrained/Only Up to Amount Hit By (Before Defenses, 5 Power Points per Body)

Blast                       

Conditional/Requires Available Earth

                      

Conditional/Requires Available Fire

                      

Conditional/Requires Available Metal

Characteristic/Body  

Constrained/Only up to Body Inflicted by Specific Attack

Characteristic/Defense  

Conditional/Not vs. Kinetic Attacks

 

 - Conditional/Only vs. Cold

 

 - Conditional/Only vs. Fire

 

Conditional/Only vs. Kinetic Attacks

Entangle                 

Conditional/Requires Available Plants

Flight                      

Constrained/Needs Updraft to go Upwards

                  

Constrained/No Direction Change Must Arc and Land

               

Constrained/Only Along Surfaces

             

Constrained/Only In or On Water

                

Constrained/Requires Swing Line

Images                   

Constrained, Sounds Only

Invisibility                

Constrained/Only While Possessing Target

Mind Control            

Conditional/Only Affects Animals

          

Constrained/Only Possessed Target

       

Constrained/Only to Inflict Emotions

Shrinking                

Constrained/Only to Possess Target

Surfaces                 

Constrained/Only to Stick to Possessed Target

Telekinesis              

Constrained/Downwards Only

             

Constrained/Only to Move Water

          

Constrained/Upwards Only

Telepathy                

Conditional/Self Only

             

Constrained/Emotions Only

         

Constrained/Only Possessed Target

              

Constrained/Only Up to Surface Thoughts

               

Constrained/Only With Animals

              

Constrained/Receiving Only

          

Constrained/Sending Only

       

- Constrained/Only to Transmit Commands

Tunnelling               

Constrained/Only to Possess Target

Weaken (Ego)          

Constrained/Only Possessed Target

[Tywyll]

Thanks! This is really helpful.

 

I wish they hadn't felt the need to change the name of some limitations (limited power has been around forever, why change it's name and make it more complicated?).

[Pariah]

My (probably overly simplistic) understanding is something like this:

 

Conditional: Limits when or under what conditions a Power can be used.

 

Constrained: Limits the effectiveness of a Power when it is used.

[pawsplay]

Conditional is "only when," constrained is "only what."

 

[ideasmith]

On 5/21/2020 at 4:11 AM, Tywyll said:

Thanks! This is really helpful.

 

You are welcome. I should mention that all of these Limitations can be special effects instead.

 

On 5/21/2020 at 4:11 AM, Tywyll said:

I wish they hadn't felt the need to change the name of some limitations (limited power has been around forever, why change it's name and make it more complicated?).

 

In order to keep stuff like endurance batteries and spending points on figured characteristics from being added back in via Limited Power.

 

On 7/2/2020 at 5:38 AM, Pariah said:

My (probably overly simplistic) understanding is something like this:

 

Conditional: Limits when or under what conditions a Power can be used.

 

Constrained: Limits the effectiveness of a Power when it is used.

 

On 7/7/2020 at 1:51 PM, pawsplay said:

Conditional is "only when," constrained is "only what."

 

 

My understanding is:

 

Conditional: “only when” where the “when” is not overly influenced by the hero or his usual associates.

Constrained:

                      1)“only when” where the “when” is actions of the hero.

                      2)You don’t get all the options you would normally have for using this power.

[pawsplay]

To me "the actions of the hero" are a what, but that's just my take.

[ideasmith]

On 2/11/2021 at 1:16 AM, pawsplay said:

To me "the actions of the hero" are a what, but that's just my take.

 

To me "to follow the use of a specific attacking Power by the hero" is a when, but that's just my take.

[pawsplay]

It's less pithy, but my understanding is this:

A conditional power cannot always be used, but when it does, has any and all of its normal effects.

A constrained power can generally always be used, but the effects are only a subset of the possible effects of that power.

[ideasmith]

2 hours ago, pawsplay said:

It's less pithy, but my understanding is this:

A conditional power cannot always be used, but when it does, has any and all of its normal effects.

A constrained power can generally always be used, but the effects are only a subset of the possible effects of that power.

 

This contradicts what the rulebook says. 

 

The rulebook makes it clear that a conditional power can have reduced effect, and that a constrained power can have all it's normal effects (though not all the time). 

[pawsplay]

You're going to have to show your work. I basically paraphrased the rulebook without commentary. I seriously don't know what you mean by contradicts the rulebook.

[ideasmith]

On 2/16/2021 at 1:00 PM, pawsplay said:

You're going to have to show your work. I basically paraphrased the rulebook without commentary. I seriously don't know what you mean by contradicts the rulebook.

 

Okay, showing my work:

 

On 2/15/2021 at 8:47 PM, pawsplay said:

A conditional power cannot always be used, but when it does, has any and all of its normal effects.

 

From Conditional: “works poorly or not at all”, “will not work fully or at all”, “Reduced effect (½)".

 

These indicate that, if conditional is taken as a (1/2) Limitation, it only has some of its normal effects.

 

Example: Subscript has 6 units of Shrinking, Conditional, Reduced effect, half effect in the presence of Examplenite. In the presence of Examplenite, Subscript’s Shrinking will not have its normal effect of 6 units, being limited to a maximum of 3 units.

 

On 2/15/2021 at 8:47 PM, pawsplay said:

.A constrained power can generally always be used, but the effects are only a subset of the possible effects of that power.

 

From Constrained: “or only in a single circumstance of the hero’s other Powers’ use”, “Constrained to follow the use of”.

 

These indicate a form of constrained which can allows any and all normal effects, but only if the hero is/was using her power(s) in the specified fashion.

 

Example: Superscript has 12 dice Blast, Constrained, only if she used her Entangle power in her previous phase. When Superscript can use her Blast, she can use it at any number of dice, use it at any available target, and otherwise us it for anything she could use if for if it wasn’t Constrained. When she can’t use her Blast, she can’t use it at all.

[pawsplay]

Reduced effect is an option on Conditional, not the definition of Conditional itself.

 

Let's go back to the text.

 

 

Quote

Conditional
The Power or Characteristic works poorly or not at all under some condition or
qualities of its target, or conversely, it will not work fully or at all unless some
condition is met. The condition must be possible but not universally present in
the context of play, cannot defined by opinions, and cannot be controlled by the
hero or his or her usual associates.

Quote

 

Constrained

The Power’s effect may be used only within a subset of the mechanics listed in the
Power’s description or only in a single circumstance of the hero’s other Powers’
use. The Power does not work outside the constraint.

 

 

 

Conditional is limited by external conditions, in other words, "when."

Constrained works when the player wants it to, but only has a specific effect "what." You could also say "when" it goes with another of the other powers, but really this is a "what": the power is something that works in conjunction with another power.

 

So it might be clearer to say conditional is "when or not when" and constrained is "when used, it only does X." So conditional is "only at night" or "requires a source of open flame" but constrained might be "only tigers" or "only while flying" or "only in conjunction with Strength."

 

The reduced modifier for Conditional still works like Conditional, but instead of not working at all, you only get half. So instead of "only at night" you get "half power during the day."