Griffonheart Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Dr. Strange. He has beaten everyone the Marvel Universe has thrown at him through wit and even by the occasional application of brute force. He's not Sorcerer Supreme for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Dr. Strange. My evidence? Well, in the 1980s Strange took on the Molten Men from Marvel's ill-conceived Crystar series, and took 'em out suffering only the indignity of having to replace some hallway rugs. yeah, it's kinda a joke. But when someone mentioned comic trivia, the lightbulb went on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by Speedball Dr. Strange. My evidence? Well, in the 1980s Strange took on the Molten Men from Marvel's ill-conceived Crystar series, and took 'em out suffering only the indignity of having to replace some hallway rugs. yeah, it's kinda a joke. But when someone mentioned comic trivia, the lightbulb went on. He also defeated an interplanetary class martial artist, Mantis, using only his Kung Fu! How's that for trivia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Strange trivia? Strange is so powerful that when a group of villains defeated the Defenders (you know, the most fearsome superhuman non-team ever), including Strange himself, he transfered a fraction of his power to another and that one wiped the floor witrh the villains. So what? That other was Howard the Duck!!! Fate is in serious trouble here . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by ZootSoot Strange trivia? Strange is so powerful that when a group of villains defeated the Defenders (you know, the most fearsome superhuman non-team ever), including Strange himself, he transfered a fraction of his power to another and that one wiped the floor witrh the villains. So what? That other was Howard the Duck!!! Fate is in serious trouble here . . . Yep, I don't see how anybody can beat Strange when he can call on Howard the Duck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyendasky80 Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by Kevin Dr. Strange would ultimately defeat Dr. Fate. Fate operates on a belief system and a magic system of absolute black and white. Strange sees all the shades of grey. All Fate has backing him up are the Lords of Order. Actually, it was revealed in a recent arc of JSA that Hector Hall's (Doctor Fate) current body is the biological son of Hawk and Dove, agents of balance. Hawk was pure chaos and Dove was order making Hector a perfect mix of the two. He can wield Chaos magic as well as Order. Originally posted by Kevin Strange has been pitted against Gods and won. He has defeated planets and avatars of whole universes. [/b] Hector is relatively new and hasn't met any Gods yet. But he's defeated Mordru single-handedly twice after Mordru took out the entire JSA (both times). Mordru also killed his predecessor. I mentioned before, the second time he defeated Mordru, Mordru had Fates helmet. I think Strange has a more impressive past of course, but Hector Hall isn't a pushover even with his inexperience. Originally posted by Kevin Plus, Fate is not very SKILLED with magic. Even Nabu isn't very skilled. They were granted the use of magical powers by the Lords of Order. Dr. Strange is VERY VERY SKILLED at the use of magic in many forms and from many sources. He calls on many other dimensional powers, any one set of which would be a match for the Lords of Order, as well as his own personal magical abilities. [/b] Hector is the perfect vessal for magical energies, he wasn't granted anything, he was born with it. It was his destiny since his birth. Nabu is not a factor in Hector's abilities and Hector has no connection, other than historical, to the Lords of Order. He isn't even categorized as an agent of Order anymore. The mantle of Fate has taken on an identity of its own. I believe, in power, Fate and Strange are peers if not equals. Originally posted by Kevin Dr. Strange would win. He could probably convince the Lords of Order that Dr. Fate wasn't serving their needs properly and get his powers stripped! Or he could cause such a conflcit between the Lords of Order and the Lords of Chaos that they had to withdraw their patronage from Dr. Fate to protect themselves on a direct front! Fate would be toast. [/b] Since the Lords of Order no longer control Fate's power, Strange's tactic of convincing them to strip Fate of his magic would be a waste of time. However, I think Strange has just as good a chance of defeating Fate as Fate does defeating Strange. I just throw it to Fate because, obviously, I'm a fan. IMHO they're powers are so similar it becomes too close to call. Hector Hall is also unique in the history of Fate in that he has broken away from constricting polarities of Order and can access Chaos as well. With access to both sides of the fundamental forces of existance, he becomes a unique and new Fate. Any previous encounters between Strange and Fate have little or no bearing on any new encounters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by Eyendasky80 Actually, it was revealed in a recent arc of JSA that Hector Hall's (Doctor Fate) current body is the biological son of Hawk and Dove, agents of balance. Hawk was pure chaos and Dove was order making Hector a perfect mix of the two. He can wield Chaos magic as well as Order. Hector is relatively new and hasn't met any Gods yet. But he's defeated Mordru single-handedly twice after Mordru took out the entire JSA (both times). Mordru also killed his predecessor. I mentioned before, the second time he defeated Mordru, Mordru had Fates helmet. I think Strange has a more impressive past of course, but Hector Hall isn't a pushover even with his inexperience. Hector is the perfect vessal for magical energies, he wasn't granted anything, he was born with it. It was his destiny since his birth. Nabu is not a factor in Hector's abilities and Hector has no connection, other than historical, to the Lords of Order. He isn't even categorized as an agent of Order anymore. The mantle of Fate has taken on an identity of its own. I believe, in power, Fate and Strange are peers if not equals. Since the Lords of Order no longer control Fate's power, Strange's tactic of convincing them to strip Fate of his magic would be a waste of time. However, I think Strange has just as good a chance of defeating Fate as Fate does defeating Strange. I just throw it to Fate because, obviously, I'm a fan. IMHO they're powers are so similar it becomes too close to call. Hector Hall is also unique in the history of Fate in that he has broken away from constricting polarities of Order and can access Chaos as well. With access to both sides of the fundamental forces of existance, he becomes a unique and new Fate. Any previous encounters between Strange and Fate have little or no bearing on any new encounters. Hawk and Dove, Order and Chaos? Whew! That's some bad writing. Sounds to me from some of the info received on this board, that DC is vainly trying to take Fate more seriously by following in the path of Dr. Strange's writers except they have to do things like taint him with Hawk and Dove, blech! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyendasky80 Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 That could very well be correct. Here's the breakdown on how it happened: Originally: Hector Hall is Carter Hall's (Hawkman) son born without a soul. He has an unimpressive heroic career as the Nth metal powered Scarab and then the dream walking Sandman. He dies. 1st: Mordru goes on a killing spree, taking out all the agents of Order and Chaos he can find. This leads to a "Fate Child" being born. Three possibles are detected and the JSA seeks them out. One is born to a comatose woman in Asia somewhere who turns out to be the right baby AND Hector Hall reincarnated. He is magically aged to adult hood when Mordru tries to break his mystic bond to the vestments of Fate. 2nd: The lady in the coma turns out to be Hector's own wife Lyta (Fury who used to be Wonder Woman's daughter pre-crisis). 3rd: Hector, driven to cure his wife, discovers that Mordru knows how to help her. He goes to where he imprisoned Mordru and demands to know how to wake her up. After some convincing, Mordru complies. 4th: Hector performs the spell which reveals that the woman in the coma wasn't Lyta at all, but Dove. And his biological father was Hawk. The spell also had a hidden enchantment piggy-backed to it that frees Mordru who quickly takes Hector out and steals his stuff. Massive multi issue battle later: Hector is bad ass, new agent of Chaos and Order, more powerful than any previous incarnation of Fate. It does sound like a bad soap opera, but damn it if I didn't buy it. Geoff Johns could sell contact lenses to the blind. I think anyone who likes team books would agree, despite how awful I make it sound, JSA is a great book. The sales reflect that such efforts are hardly in vain. Fate even has a new book out. Johns is known for resurrecting characters with rich histories that have become mired by continuity without giving up the good parts. Johns cuts out the fluff, I don't think he was imitating anything. He looked at the character, said "This sucks," and proceeded to cut away the dead weight and emphasize the best parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 They are counterparts of their respective universes and, as such, they are similar in relation to powers. Although I prefer Stephen as a character and, therefore, rather prefer to read his stories, I'm pretty sure that Dr. Fate wouldn't find difficult to defeat Dr. Strange hands down. However, unless the new Dr. Fate is really different from his previous incarnations, Stephen is much smarter and could use it as an advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I think... Dr. Strange was beaten by a copy of Dr. Fate called Dr. Strangefate. It wasn't any of the regular AE under the helmet, but Charles Xavier. We talked about this in the JLA Avengers thread. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted December 12, 2003 Report Share Posted December 12, 2003 Re: I think... Originally posted by csyphrett Dr. Strange was beaten by a copy of Dr. Fate called Dr. Strangefate. It wasn't any of the regular AE under the helmet, but Charles Xavier. We talked about this in the JLA Avengers thread. CES Wouldn't Dr. Strangefate be a combination of the three? I'm not sure that's more of a copy of Dr. Fate than all three together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted December 12, 2003 Report Share Posted December 12, 2003 Hugo Strange, hands down...Just kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted December 12, 2003 Report Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by Enforcer84 Hugo Strange, hands down...Just kidding. Doc Savage would probably agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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