Beast

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #6: Defense Powers

For me handing out partial information is the best way for others to take what is shown the wrong way(how can they know better)

what should have been done ,was 1 total item should have been shown(Barriers,area effects,a new power or a radically changed one)

Like the character sheet(with the costs of each stat

the whole writeup of 1 power

with that you can have an informed discussion

it is kinda moot now as the PDF will be on sale at the Con in 10 days

or it could have gone

you'll see it when we have it ready for sale

It isn't "we know stuff we're not telling you" it is "we know stuff we are not allowed to tell you".

 

 

 

Well, as far is it applies to SETAC members, we can't answer any of the questions. Steve gets to reveal exactly as much and as little as he wants in these Showcases. We aren't allowed to reveal any more than he does.

 

As it applies to Hero, Steve has decided how much he is willing to share about each thing that he is sharing. Had he any interest in giving further details he would have.

 

 

 

And that basic response was also given. Given in fact before Dan posted his reply.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #6: Defense Powers

for me it is a question of cost.

Force wall was an ok build so long as active point caps where not involved

62 points to get a 12/12 to get a dome to place over you and cover 1 hex

and that was all you could do with it

unless you paid more points so you could alter it

now we are getting Barrier

a crunchy force wall ,cool

but what are the costs of the various pieces

for 60 points I feel you should be able to have a barrier that can take a 12d6 hit and cover say a 6m diameter area(2 hex radius covers 7 hexes)from both pd and ed attacks

or it could make a 7"long bridge

Re: Create Familiar Spell

for me buying it as a follower is the spell

if some other mage tries to dispel it they can go up against the base points x5 you paid for it

if it got hacked to pieces in a fight or in a trap

once you got to your lab/stronghold you could recast the spell(1 of those GM fiat on how long it takes)

otherwise you could go with summon and make it slavishly loyal to you and pay so you can replace it if you want another quickly

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #6: Defense Powers

since the cost comes out the same

you can make all of your PD,ED,MD, PowD resistant not just the extra you buy

it also gives 3 options on defining vs NND

• Resistant (+1/2): excellent.
  
• Resistant Protection (3/2): a why power. It's always either the same cost or more expensive than PD(resistant)+ED(resistant), so unless there's some reason I can't just buy PD and ED as powers, I'd do so.
  
• Barrier: excellent.
  
• Microscopic: I've had some issues with this advantage because it can be hard to figure out its game effects, but I don't have a big problem with the price.
  
• Penetrative: Good (I hated the way 5e did senses), though I'm unclear why 'partially penetrative' is listed, as opposed to just buying Penetrative (Only Through X), which allows varying the cost depending on how common the substance is.
  

Re: Passing through small gaps

I would have you at the string level ;-p

Actually, that would be me. (8^D)

Sean does not even come close in that regard. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

Re: Passing through small gaps

Desolid at 40 points is I see as what it takes to negate just about all entangles that are not hardened or affect desolid

I use it as a base point since it is what we have already

may not pass through solid objects(-1/2)if is not water/air tight you can get through it

shape shift (25 pts any shape)gets you to about the same place with a bit more vesatility in other areas

you do have to pay for the power and the power give the payer that ability

you seem to want to break tool kit down to the subatomic level instead of keeping it at the nuts and bots level

those same 3 levels you give are the same as the discussion about arrow/bullet/laser on missile defection

I take the limitation not all englobing sieve level

that just makes it so you have to take deform to sieve level

I got the limitation and you had to spend to the sieve level

if my entagle is say based on totally incasing you in wood,vines ,and leaves

and you cannot t-port out of it

how could you teleport out of your house made of wood or underground

hardened should not be free for the first level

teleport and desolid by discription allow you to pass through objects unless the object is your bane(desolid cannot pass through)or hardened against it

you would in effect have desolid cost 60 pt and teleport 3pts per inch

If you look at the OP then you will see that 5 points gets you the ability to squeeze through bars but not a mesh unless the holes are bigger than chain link. 10 points gets you the ability to squeeze through chicken wire and 20 gets the the ability to squeeze through a sieve. So I don't think you are right in suggesting 5 points negates non-englobing entangles, even if the GM allows it.

 

If you do have a problem there, allow people buying entangles to take a limitation (non-englobing -1/4) to reduce the cost of an entangle that can not hold certain targets.

 

In any event, how is that any more 'sfx driven' than shrinking negating such entangles - you are not paying more for the ability? You have no problem with that but the principle is the same.

 

You also get the ability to escape many such entangles with touch shapeshift - and pay nothing more for it.

 

I'd (were I writing the game and taking into account the limtied utility of entangle anyway) say that entangle can not be escaped by teleport unless the TP is AP.

 

Putting this in a seperate ability allows you to consistently pay for this. I'm not sure why that is a bad thing.

Re: Passing through small gaps

and you have for 5 pts negate any non fully englobing sfx

when contortionist at 3 points only adds 1 dc to escape by per point made by

the rules have that you can harden vs t-port

shrinking I have no problem with

I see you as just trying to make a new power when the tools already exist for the effect you want to create

and your balance vs those other tools is off by loads

also most entangles ,like attack powers are in a multipower so the limitation value is minimal

I say you are wrong

 

First off being able to cancel entangles and (by your build) ignore all damage from attacks is worth 27 points.

 

Second, the deformation power specifically doesn't cancel entangle unless the GM allows it based on sfx AND (and this was not there, I accept, but...) the sort of sfx that I have in mind should be reflected in the build: an escapable entangle might be one where you get wrapped up in something with bits sticking out. That is worth a limitation.

 

Anyway, the system acknowledges that various power can affect entangles: shrinking, growth, stretching, whatever. That's rubbish too: build the damn thing properly. Entangle should be considered, by default, englobing and power proof (including teleport). If it isn't, you get a limitation.

 

So basic deformation is worth 5 points...IMO.

Re: Telepathic race with no other sensory organs

They could that the disadvantages of blind and deaf(25+25 pts)

so no need to buy flash def

so long as the plant buys it's telepathic sense targeting if it to attack or defend itself

it will still need to make a perception roll to sense targets that are using stealth

it will need n-ray to see through objects

targets using stealth should need to be aware of the plants capability

but then if the stealthing character is trying to sneak up on or away from a telepathic plant most likely knows already

Since they probably aren't Limited by not having eyes/ears... just state they can't be affected by Sight/Hearing Flashes and purchase all the pertinent Senses as a replacement. There's no real way to "sell back" Site and Hearing so they go away.

Re: Passing through small gaps

your 5 pt power in effect allows the character to get out of entangles because of special effect

contortionist as a 3 point skill only allows +1 dc per pt made by vs entangles and this is more in line with Hero

Your 5 pt power is the is in effect the reverse of the the missile deflection discussion

you are able to deny a power by special effect

desolid is able to do this at a cost of 40 points and needing something that can hit you with out being having to have affects desolid

I'm not sure what the cost should be but it would need to be nearer to 40 points than 5

Desolidification (40 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2)

is 27 active

maybe not able to pass through a 2x2 inch(real) might be worth -3/4 to -1

those 2 give us 23 to 20 points which I see as more in line as the cost

I've been thinking about shapeshifting and stretching and such and there are a number of things that 'logically' they should let you do. However' date=' such potential abilities either have to come with the power (and then you apply limits tot eh power if they are not present) or have to be paid for separately. I'm in favour of the latter approach. So...deformation...[/size']

Deformation

Body Affecting/Movement Power

Costs END

This is the power to move through obstacles that would normally prevent such movement. This causes no damage to the obstacles you circumvent.

For 5 points you can squeeze into small spaces as if your bones were made of rubber. This will allow you to slip many bonds and squeeze through the bars of a cage, but not a mesh (basically anything much bigger than a chain link fence and you can pass straight through). Each 1m of ‘obstacle’ (or part thereof) that you pass through slows your movement by 1m. You can also fold your body into spaces: you can turn yourself into a sphere or cube. GMs should consider a situational bonus to any concealment roll if there is somewhere you can hide that a normal person of your .

For 10 points you can squeeze through small spaces as if your flesh were a thick gel or bread dough, so that includes meshes, down to about 1cm squares.

For 20 points you can squeeze through small spaces as if you are made of water.

Interaction with other powers and game effects

Deformation provides no defensive abilities but it would be appropriate to link defences to deformation. Similarly Deformation gives no bonus to escaping a grab or entangle, but (although the GM may make individual exceptions depending on sfx). Although it is logical that this ‘mass shift’ would allow a form of stretching, it doesn’t – if you want to stretch, buy stretching and link.

Re: Venomous bite

no problem enjoy

Re: Venomous bite

the 1 bite/spittle has enough poison that it will take 8 phases to be absorbed

so you have your getting worse over time

your saurians can use this bite 4 times a day with my build

you are of course can mod it to what suits your needs

Re: Venomous bite

it will need to be a drain as when the charges stop so does the supress

buy the drain as continous and uncontrolled

buy the up the return rate advantage to suit how long you want it to last

use charges and clips for how many total dice a bite should be(you can now empty the clip into the victim)

use the time delay limitation if you want the poison to work a bit slower

NND if needed

link in fangs if the poison needs to get in the blood stream or just use grab to simulate getting it on the skin to be absorbed

usable with limited range if you want to spit it

paralyzing spittle: Drain STUN 2d6, 4 clips of 8 Charges (+0), Limited Range (10"; +1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Continuous (+1), NND ([standard]; poison immunity; +1) (80 Active Points); Conditional Power Power does not work in Common Circumstances (can only follow after a grab or +1 phase to spit; -1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (fully sealed enviroment is proof vs this attack; -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Incantations (it is obvious that he is going to spit or bite; -1/4)

32 real cost

Re: Mutants and Masterminds: Why did you stay/come back?

tried M&M 1e

did not like how it handled movement powers

I have gotten 2e but have not really dug into it as nobody near me plays it

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

you could but it would mean having a set percentage die roll

to survive a 30,000 foot fall

1 in a million just roll 7d10each a different color to denote order and you look for ooo,ooo,1

it would also mean how granular did you want to go with everyday life

Maybe you are. I doubt any research studies have been undertaken to determine whether someone with a sore back, or other chronic pain, can be more easily rendered unconscious through application of violence.

 

Or maybe that minor pain is insufficient to cause even 1 STUN damage, just as a minor cut, scrape or bruise does not equate to BOD damage, or even STUN damage.

 

In the interests of having a playable game, we accept some compromises. One the the quantifiability of both Stun and BOD, which does not exist in real life. Another is a vast reduction in the granularity of damage from both sources. The Hero system rules don't do a good job of simulating a world where some people fall from a plane and survive, while others slip on the sidewalk and break a hip, or even die from head trauma, or a world where some individuals manage to drive for an hour or more to a hospital while losing blood from a severe injury, while others pass out from donating blood, or even from having a blood sample taken.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

then the guy who bought up to laser level over bought vs this character

I think NOBODY should have block vs range unless they buy it

the question is should a martial artist be able to deflect a car thrown at him when he has trouble lifting it up

from what I have seen in the comics and movies is, no he cannot he has to dodge out of the way

some characters by design should not be able to block lasers

so what do you do take a limitation on what you can deflect

you could not take in a ninja hero genre game based in the 1850's as there are no lasers so it would not be a limitation

the cost difference now is only 10 pts from thrown to lasers which for me is so little as to not be worth mentioning

This defeats the purpose of the change' date=' which was to remove the SFX differentiation from Missile Deflection/Reflection. Why should anyone have an EB with the SFX "Thrown rock" when having a laser pistol instead makes the cost of deflecting it higher, so less people will be able to deflect it?[/quote']

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

that is going to depend on if he was just waiting for the shooter to shoot or he is just that tough(timing)

IMO Superman is that tough

but could have done it more as a Presence attack to just show the shooter it how useless it is to oppose Superman

I'd like to see this get back on the subject of

Should block ranged attacks be an everyman skill?

If so to what level thrown,slow missile(arrows,atl atl)fast missile(bullets),beam(speed of light)

IMHO

If allowed at all, only thrown stuff that the blocker could use their casual Str or less to lift can be blocked

example)Grond throws a car at Seeker(who would have to push to just lift a car)

Seeker could not block the car from hitting him with any of his weapons, so he would need to dodge out of the way

 

 

But is he "eye-blocking" the bullet?

Re: Post-apocalyptic campaign?

places with no military or great concentrations of enemy citizens will most will be spared(fallout might get them)

so long as a location does not take a near hit and is not downwind for fallout

will survive so long as they can grow food and generate power

same will go for colonies except they will also need to replace worn out parts or repair damage

space flight from earth is probably out of the question

colonies on moons or planets if they can produce fuel might be able to get around

only the largest space stations will be able to generate their own food

so smaller ones will be dismantled for parts

IMHO

I figure small arms still work, but I don't know how many people who know how to make them will still be alive. Ditto other types of technology and medicine. I'm assuming a nuclear war, so the destruction was widespread.

 

There are different types of colonies: domed cities, subterranean, and space stations. Several of them would have been destroyed during the war. Some of them could provide water and energy, but food supplies may be scarce.

 

If there were colonies outside the solar system, they may be self-sufficient enough to survive without Earth. They'd still wonder what was going on, though. But maybe a few survivors will make their way over there and fill them in.

Re: Post-apocalyptic campaign?

alot is going to depend on what weapons where used

how much over kill was there

most small arms will still work

depending on what type of ammo the weapon uses will give it a life span

colonies by definition if complete should be self sustaining

are they domed cities or space habitats?

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

you would need to be gone long enough for the blow to pass through the space you just left

also unless your t-port has invisible effect the target will know that you teleported and still be on guard

Block does not let you move from where you are, dodge implies it

t-porting in place as a dodge I have no qualms with

using your t-port to redirect an attack I can see also

the big thing I see here as wrong is that Block vs ranged attacks should be bought as Missile deflection/reflection

dodge works just fine

But what if Teleporting just in time to not get hit by the attack (especially if it is a HtH attack) puts you in close proximity to a startled and off balance target who you now have the chance to strike before they can respond? Isn’t that mechanically a Block? Or should my teleporter have to build an extremely complicated abortable Power to do what we already have a mechanic for? You insist that' date=' to you, Block’s SFX are limited to literally blocking the attack, yet there is more to the mechanic than that, so why shouldn’t there be more to the SFX than that? I guess my point is, if the Mechanic we call “Block” had been named something else in the first place you wouldn’t have an issue with a wider range of SFX. You are stuck on the name, not the actual thing that happens, with is: the PC actively, based on OCV, avoids or deflects damage with an improved chance to retaliate. Each additional attack that comes at the PC must then also be actively avoided/deflected/whatever the SFX is, individually, with a penalty. This is definitely “Active” even if defined as evasion, unlike “Dodge” which is a one time move to minimize the chance to get hit by anyone or anything, period.[/quote']

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

that just says to me

that he bought missile deflection up to bullet level

the point is that he trained to get that power effect

it should not be a standard maneuver for all heroes

This new rule is reminding me of Leroy Green from The Last Dragon.' date=' seeing as how he had a reputation for

catching bullets between his teeth, and even karate chops an arrow in half at the beginning (which, by the way, was legitimate and not movie magic)

.[/quote']

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

so if a super heroic character has been hit by a laser/bullet/ spitball that did body to them once already

then just puffing up their chest and pointing at their chin and being ready for the attack to block it with their good looks, is not a block to me(maybe bracing for knock back)

a Block is when something is interposed between the target and the attack(could be a body part more likely some kind of shield or improvised shield)

putting your hands up in the way and yelling"not in the face,not in the face for a thrown rock I can see as a block as your arms can take more shock and show more of an angle to the attack compared to your face

you want to block that laser/bullet/spitball that has already harmed you or something with near your defenses, better grab a manhole cover

using cover where you use the def and body of a nearby object and force the attack to have to blow through it first to then harm you would be a better mechanic

of course the attacker could try to either attack a part of the body not covered or bounce the attack from a direction not covered

Yeah - note the word USUALLY.

 

USUALLY =/= NEED.

 

Look it up, I'll wait.

 

You know what that line says to me?

 

In a Superheroic Game, you will most likely not need anything to attempt a Block - because you're a Superhero.

 

In a Pulp Game you can use unlikely items to try and block things (Lucky I had my cigarette case on me. . . .)

 

In a "realistic" game, you're going to need something "believable"

 

I see no wording AT ALL that says "and you're going to need an appropriate Focus of opportunity to use this Manuever" ANYWHERE.

 

And seriously - it bugs me to absolutely no end when things like this manage to get interpreted in such a jack-booted fashion for no bloody reason at all.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

yes I missed 1 thing about it being an every man skill and needing a focus

IMO it should be a power only

But going with it as an everyman skill ,unless the focus for the most part is a shield or similar device

and the focus should be able to withstand 75% of the body generated on average of the attack and then be destroyed or made useless by the attack

Otherwise you could have Joe Q Public pull out a penny and block an attack from Dr Destroyer(granted I have a character who does just that,but the penny is just a trademark defense and a SFX

from my 24 yrs of playing Champions/Hero System

Very few buy missile defection and even fewer buy reflection

So to remove in effect Deflection(unless you are going to do it at range to pre-detonate area attacks or save others) the whole thing should be a power

I didn't read it that way.

 

As I understood it:

• Anyone can attempt to Block a ranged attack aimed at themselves -- this usually requires something to block with. It is not a focus, because this Block is not a Power, it's just a good idea.
  
• Deflection is a Power that may or may not have the Focus Limitation applied to it -- just like any other Power.
  
• Reflection is a separate Power that also may or may not have a Focus.
  

 

Anyway, that's how I read it.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

My sentiments exactly

Range based on base points. I Like

needing a focus to perform a deflection/ reflection. I do not like

as a side note using suppress to get the effect of partial or fully negating attack would be 1 way to go

As it gives you points to base how good the power is

a 10d6 suppress might be good vs small arms but have limited effect vs tank cannons

I like the idea of utilizing Base Points for Range.

 

I wonder what the cost of Deflection/Reflection will be.

 

I am not sure about the imposed limitation placed upon Deflection though, but then again I do not have the whole story yet.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

I find that having to use NND does body vs FF as a bad build

as another light saber would have a FF to control the energy in the light saber

so you have an example of a small FF generator that could be worn(even at 4 times the size it would be a small back pack)

so it could have been in in Vader's armor or any storm trooper's

IMHO it would be just a 4d6 energy KA maybe adding MA maneuvers and CSLs

Maybe his suit had enough ED to negate the blast or it was a Force power that allowed him to do that. As for the lightsaber cutting off his hand, most lightsaber builds that I have seen use NND (force fields) so any ED his suit might have had would have been useless against the lightsaber attack.

 

At least that's how I would see the builds to simulate that.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #4: Deflection, Reflection, And Range

Darth Vader did not seem to have a problem deflecting Han's blaster bolt when they meet for the first time in The Empire Strikes Back

yet lost his hand to Luke in Return of the Jedi when fighting with light sabers

Deflection, Reflection, And Range

 

After a whole lot of thinking, tinkering, and draft-writing, I finally came to the conclusion that I could make Deflection and Reflection both have unique functionality that’s worth paying Character Points for by making one change to the combat rules: allow characters to Block Ranged attacks made against them. So, now characters can do that, though usually it requires a shield or some other implement (as the rules note, trying to Block laser beams with your bare hands tends to be a Very Bad Idea ).