Farkling

It does change the odds slightly...but I do enjoy the fluctuation it gives. And you can't knock the speed increase...one quick roll versus "how many dice tdo I get for STR? And I count the total? Just the BODY? But what about the STUN, shouldn't it count?." I can't show you the statistical reason for the variance, but I know it's in there...

Was I not specific enough? FIELD related... Yon nuclear physicist cannot roll on an "Archaeology" problem with his Nuclear Physics skill, unless he is attempting to decipher the remains of a SIVA generator or Stargate inside the pyramid. He certainly wouldn't get much relevant information that way either...there's time...and lack of knowledge of PHYSICAL decay...

We've always felt that the skill chosen by the player (in knowledges and sciences especially) defined the field it applied to. If the character wishes to roll in a field that is plausibly related, the GM applies a penalty to the roll for being "outside" his general education. EX: SC: Quantum Physics (14-) could roll on a Nuclear Physics question at -3 to -5 for outside of field. Subatomic Physics might get -1 to -3.... but we are very , um, comics oriented in our interpretation. I think White Wolf suggested this in the Mage system...and it follows the "similarity" rule HERO set up in the language charts...a truly intrepid chart oriented person could make a whole chart of their own up like the language one...duplicating the system I vaguely remember from Traveller (buy this skill, get all these skills at -3)

By no intermediate skills do you mean that there are no "marginally trained abilities?" To me, an untrained skill is no roll. A familiarity with the skill yields an (8-) roll (for 1 pt) Trained usage of the skill now becomes (11-) (2 or 3 pts) (like a Bachelor's Degree) My gamers picture this as intermediate... A PhD level of skill is around (14-) (3-9 pts) Supreme Knowledge (best in the west!) would be upwards of (14-), maybe in range of (18-, 21-)...using the -10 rule that's about 25%-50% to complete the impoossible... Where precisely does the missing intermediate level of skill exist? At about 9 or 10 ? Between 11 and 14 ? What is your requirement for intermediate? Your system would make ALL high DEX characters competent at any DEX skill, unless you artificially inflate your penalties, and a high INT character will be good at EVERY Knowledge and Science Skill...unless like the White Wolf Craft/Science systems you require them to obey different rules. It does look like you want all the skills to be possible to everyone...and are forcing bonuses to be bought to gain the free skill usage.

to each his own. I think the only published stuff I use from the Champions universe is some of the names of the organizations...I prefer homebrewed supervillains...that way I can tailor some of them, and make others generic. Come to think of it...the conversion to house rules would be a contributing factor to why I prefer my own...some Universe sourcebooks break their own rules, some are campy, and some are just odd... I also dislike having another source of print available that some lawyer can use to say "but the game creators did it this way". Ah, I do miss the days of "but it isn't like that in the Enemies book!", and I will always fondly remember the character who found Sue Ellen McCormick's NPC writeup and panicked when he saw "Evil Shapeshifting Mutant from Another Dimension" written under "Character Type" ... he tried to do some horrible things to her, and to expose her for almost a year in game time.... heh heh heh.

Dispel and Damage Shield? ...no...that would be full effect from anything overloading your defenses. I don't know....ramped defenses against a whole special effect SHOULD be expensive.... Hmmm....you could cheat...seriously! If the GM allows it, check the sidebar on pg 95 "Magic Resistance" 30 pts 50% Magical Damage Reduction (affects Resistant Energy/Physical/Mental) Damage Reduction purchased in that manner would give 50% Reduction versus ANY Magical Attack in the Physical, Energy, Mental categories...you'll still need to shop for your Flash and Power defense though. So, if the GM says NO.... 10pts 50% Resistant Physical Damage Reduction (Magic Only, -2) (30 AP) 10pts 50% Resistant Energy Damage Reduction (Magic Only, -2) (30 AP) 10pts 50% Resistant Mental Damagel Reduction (Magic Only, -2) (30 AP) **Mental Reduction must be bought resistant. (same cost because of the -2, if a lower limitation, it will , of course, be more expensive...and more useful) Now, according to the fine print, Resistant Damage Reduction applies to AVLD, NND, STUN/BODY Drains, and any other powers the GM allows. Magic affects you, but you take half damage after your normal defenses are applied. You are magic resistant, and take half damage from magical attacks... Except for Flash and Power Effects, so 5 pts Flash Defense (Sight): 15 (vs Magical Attacks only) 10 pts Power Defense: 30 (vs. Magical Attacks Only) 45 pts for magic resistance....though this has some holes...you can still have your hearing/smell/touch messed with. You are very difficult to magically blind and almost a dead zone to power affects...which should be a nifty effect for a magic proof character...possibly the blood of a god? A gypsy curse granting you an extra soul? and remember the comic adage..."Invulnerable" only means "ain't been injured by nothin' yet"

Which one of my so-called friends told you I was unreasonable Hugh? It's time to re-evaluate his character sheet....

i've gone through all the math before...it's one of the reasons I dislike multiple frameworks on a character... this was off the top of my head, and the old school example is numbers from a long running game...it's CLOSE to how he built his powers...he spent a lot of time with a calculator figuring the best cost break for what he wanted...

heh heh heh....my evil plan to inflate Hugh's ego is proceeding well.... oh wait...was that my outside voice?

As a footnote, Zorn said I will forewarn you that overall it saves more points on PCs, especially if the EC is set high enough, you end up with lots of those smaller powers that now are half-priced. But you probably know this already. From a POWERS ONLY standpoint The old style rules twisters would buy a 76 point power, a 60 point (30) power, and a 6 of 50 pointers (25 each)....that saves a great amount of points...256 points. Under the current EC rules:: 25 = EC Reserve (50 point powers) 150 = 6 50 pointers 35 = 1 60 pointer 51 = 1 76 pointer 261 points Now extending this.... A new 70 point power costs your player 35 points, and a "by the book" FREd player 45 points. It adds up for powers fast...let alone the half price on the minor abilities also. Additionally...power limitations are more effective on more points...so there is yet more abuse available. Let's put OAF on the whole EC now... Old Style 76/2 (38) + 30/2 (15) + 6 @ 25/2 (12) = 125 FREd Style 25/2 + 150/2 + 35/2 + 51/2 = 129 And adding the new power costs Old Style : 17 FREd Style: 22 Extend this out for 5 or 6 new powers, and the EC character is even cheaper your way... that's it....I just figured someone should see numbers to back up Zorn's declaration... And just think...people are STILL complaining about how underpriced Elemental Controls are...

That's the way Champions modelled EC's back when they published the rules chipped onto those Stone Tablets...it's not a new idea... As a GM you are within your rights to mandate that characters MUST take the 1/4 limitation on unified powers so they are "affected by Drains to EC" as GM you can apply it as a -0 limitation. Of course...with the low-end powers it doesn't matter so much whether they are drained or not...and the +2 Drain/Suppress will hit them anyway. in the comics the small powers are usually the last to go...or get missed. So for dramatic effect, I would think that some should NOT be part of the EC "suite" With all due respect to the publishers of the gaming books, and characters excepting the stated rules, the publishers stated that you can change the rules you don't like, and they do for the Champions Multiverse. IMHO, a Multipower (of attack/movement powers) and an Elemental Control on the same character are typically all the same special effects. Any other designation just may be cleverly disguised munchkin applications... Dramatically though, it would imply that the character has much greater control over the powers in the Multipower. (and I HATE these constructs! I personally am annoyed by EC's containing Movement and Defense powers, while the 5 attack slots are in a seperate Multipower. I see munchkins!!!) Now, IF I let a character following the EC/Mpower construct into a game....I will advise them to take the 1/4 limitation on the MPower unless they can justify a reason NOT to. Also, the +2 advantage for "all special effects of X" will drain the Multipower reserve and the slots and the EC...the "two powers" will drain the EC and the MPower reserve, regardless of the target. but EC's do grant such large savings. All but one character in my current game were designed and turned in with EC's. I thought it was for the point savings, but it was because the GM that taught them to play HERO rebuilt EVERY PC using MPower (attacks) and EC's (defenses and movement) on the beginning characters. My six new players thought that all characters had to have EC's and it was the only way to get enough powers per point spent... So, after going over the characters with everyone...there is ONE EC left (for a variant of Storm)...two EC's converted very easily to Multipowers (one is very Prfessor X, one is a REAL Archangel..."Wheels" saved much better points as a Multipower...and dropped a PILE of point mongering limitations. whatever rules you use are your own preference. I dislike multiple power frameworks in most cases...but I remember the old days, and do NOT like the old style EC rules...characters would frequently buy a whole suite of enhanced senses and trivial powers that may/may not fit character concept (without pretzel application), simply because the powers were CHEAP. I also do not prefer the old style Martial Arts rules...but the new ones didn't quite fix it for me...I seek a middle alternative. A discussion for another thread.

Um, we have something to simulate the "chipping away effect" on defenses in the rules...see Ablative under Defense Powers on page 77. It requires no more GM permission than the Entangle...actually, since it's old style Ablation, GM approval would likely be easier to get. Figure out the amount of DEF you want. Buy that Defense as Force Field, "only costs END to activate", "cannot be used without Ablative field" Now, you need to purchase the Ablative Force Field at the same size as follows:: Abalative Force Field (the -5 AP version at the END), with "Only costs END to activate", and for the usual Elemental Control, link the powers together. For the point monger or a different power feel or munchkin NND proofing, you can make the base power (DEF) Armor instead of Force Field... This gives a one shot version playing to DEF (power) + BOD (ablative field) like an Entangle...now, as to putting it back up again... 1) A lenient GM will let it just be "recreated" after it falls. For balance in this case, besides the "only costs END to activate" the power should have extra time and/or gestures for start up. Extra Time is a good way to represent "unrestrainable" gestures or incantations in a SuperHero environment. 2) A seperate Aid or Heal could be bought to restore the Ablated section of the field...devoting the "attack action" necessary to rebuild the failing dark matter shield...In which case, for balance, I would highly recommend the Aid/Heal be bought with "self only, costs End, Extra Time" The advantage of THIS construct over the Entangle is that this one works against NND attacks and AVLD's...the Entangle version won't even see them...and this one uses existing Defense Power rules. You couldn't abort to erecting the Entangle with a "by the book" GM.

That isn't a hero rule? Uh-Oh....how could my old group have missed not-finding that in the book? Will they come a-hunting me now? Hmmm...thay don't actually know where I live anymore... Actually, I instated that rule years ago after reading the Amber system...I thought it was only fair to the guy that spent the extra points...

oh, and Hugh...I think I found a cheaper power for the eyes...what if it Cheshire's gaze applied negative skill levels to the target? There was a reference to that somewhere... The riveting gaze is a PRE attack, and should normally cause the half phase hesitation the player is looking for, then if there are nefative skill level that apply to the person (can people really simultaneously meet his gaze?) meeting Cheshire's gaze. Repeated PRE attacks decrease in effect, so eventually the "fascination effect" of the delay and the negative levels will wear off... how's the logic on that? Hugh? Shrike? any of the masters out there?

As someone else around here states... "I have my red pen ready" Hugh has enacted the Summoning of the evil Professor Farkling...heh heh heh. Actually, pardon any offense I give...it is unintended...I am just not very diplomatic on the boards (or during character creation...ask my gaming groups). My list of difficulties is as follows, and assumes a Superhero level game:: 1) Okay...nifty mind control powers, magnetic gaze or phermones or some variation, and your disads are ALL psych limits, distinctive features, and reputations... This would annoy ME in MY game. SuperAgnecies get focussed and destructive when I'm annoyed. 2) Those Distinctive Features need to be rethought...I would MAYBE give you one big one with "Gorgeous Feline Cat Person that haunts everyones fantasies"; I wouldn't let you take both those Distinctive Features...now you look like a player trying to design a character the GM is forced to psychically torture. Of course...those Reputations and Distinctive Features, properly played, would land you in jail or the hospital fairly quickly...A crazed anarchist is going to be hunted by law enforcemnt agencies whether you take the disads or not...and you will be forced to live in the sewers because of your distinctive features...until the transit workers or sanitation engineers find you. 3) I agree with Hugh...Distinctive Features at that level would mandate a Public ID in my campaign...and maybe even an "Infamous" or "Famous" Limitation....actually....look at this 40 pts Reputations 60 pts Distinctive Features 55 pts Psych Limits Mutant/Genetic/Dr. Strangelove Powers and NO metabolic representations or animalistic tendencies or weak points. A flamboyant character who gets disad points for existing. Are you simply trying to avoid the "Susceptibility/Vulnerablility" categories because you have a sadistic StoryTeller? Reputaion: Anarchist, 14- (Extreme): 20 points I actually have little problem with this... Reputation: Less than Sane, 14-: 20 points Reputation implies it is bad press or an act...if he actually IS crazed, it is a Psych Limit...not a Reputation. And it would fall in with the Anarchist reputation...Anarchists are frequently seen to be "Less than Sane"...would you like to meet one? Purple Eyes: Distinctive Features, Easily Concealed (Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction): 10 Points Feline: Distinctive Features, Not Concealable (Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction): 20 points Gorgeous: Distinctive Features, Concealable (Causes Extreem Reaction): 20 points This all belongs in ONE Distinctive Feature...Gorgeous Feline with Purple Eyes...your distribution is point mongering (no REAL offense intended...I'm a blunt fellow). If you told the cops "but I am not Cheshire...as you can see, I have RED eyes, his are purple", they MIGHT not be affected by the presence attack/mind control, but if they ARE they are going to start issuing nationwide bulletins... Psionic Projection: Distinctive Features, Not Concealable (Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable Only with Unusual Senses): 10 points This should be a Physcial Limitation OR even a Vulnerability to Mind Scan (representing "Psychic Noise" from the Projection), or MAYBE both...if it is a MINOR Physical Limitation. Self-Preservation Instinct: Enraged when near death and unable to escape (Uncommon), go 14-, recover 14-: 15 points Hmm...I don't REALLY have a problem with this, other than the phrasing...this says you are Enraged if badly wounded AND unable to escape...so, you are Enraged when unable to run away and fight another day...like most heroes who are trapped and forced to fight to the death...hmmm....again with the Disads for existence. What are the Def and RDef ratings of the character...is near death even a possibility? Overpassionate (Very Common, Strong): 20 points okay...good...and the Enraged seems psychologically contradictory...Overpassionate implies he would get caught up in the fighting...ignoring his wounds... Mischievious (Common, Moderate): 10 points Ah...have you haven't lived until you've heard a character say "I shoot that damned PC who put the jalapeno's in the ketchup"...if you're playng in a group make sure they will put up with the Psych Limit...I've seen a few Kender and Practical Jokers left to fend for themselves... Distaste for Submersion (Uncommon, Strong): 5 points Mild Hydrophobia...a metabolic/feral limitation point to you. Claustrophobia (Uncommon, Moderate): 5 points Hmmm...perhaps the Enraged should be "if trapped or confined", and maybe kick the Claustrophobia up to strong. You could have a theme happening there... Heh...if submersion causes an adverse reaction...you can buy a Susceptibility at a few points to represent HOW distracting it is to the character...These are 15 pointers if rated Common...personally I would allow at LEAST common, since throwing water on a cat person is pretty close to throwing fire at ice entangles. (2d6 STUN from Water - Drenching/Submersion, Instant, signifies shock and outrage and immediate struggle to against the water) (1d6 EGO Drain from Large Quantities of Water, every 5 minutes, EGO returns at 5 pts/hour, signifies - "Wet...i HATE wet! You rotten lousy...) This construction also dovetails nicely with the OverPassionate... I have no other ideas without a full character writeup...I like disads to represent the character's full suite of personality and powers. Guess that makes me a simulationist and a narrativist...

Munchkin enabler.... No seriously, I like it a lot better in this format than the "costs End" construction...I really do. This is the direction I would send the "HyperMode" players in for constructing the effect. The combat mechanics don't really support "SPD - costs END" because of the method of turn cycling. So the Side Effects or Susceptibilities are definitely the way to go, since they don't put a demand on the model utilized for combat.

And what's wrong with 1/2 D6 Drain with Standard Effect? Or Even 1/2 D6+1 Does tha math work right for that? The 1d6 would be 6 END/phase...right? (Power Points) So, 1/2d6 +1 would be 5 END/phase, and 1/2d6 would be 3 END/phase.... I'll do the math to keep it fair... after all, I'm messing with a munchkin effect... (grins at Hugh)

THAT format is close to my choice Mr. N And it gets around the messiness of bring forced to turn your SPD "ofF" in order to take a REC. I like it.

I let someone have an unbreakable gun. Boy, was he upset when hydro hit it with a 12d6 Double KB attack. It went through one and a half buildings, and got picked up by someone in the second building. It didn't actually hit anyone though...he was lucky. He had to post a reward to ge it back.

A pleasure discussing these things with you. Personally, I opt for the Phase 12 activation and would require the RSR then, and on each Phase 12 afterwards...though I hate stating that without running a test sequence under live fire conditions. Judging by your points versus Steve's ruling, I can only come to one conclusion... You picture SPD as being a full Turn power, with no reservations...(thus your STR argument) I picture it is a full turn power with some reservations Steve must picture it as a phase to phase power like force field and company. I still feel you are getting something for nothing...if SPD - costs END is only paid on the extra phases you USE...you are getting a free full attack action abort, provided you pay the END on that phase. I can see requiring you to pay END evey phase as a balance issue..perhaps Steve's ruling is somehow balance related...though I can't see it clearly from here. Also...the STR argument doesn't hold up for me. I've played Hero for ages, and we've always told the new players that STR through COM statistics are roleplaying stats, and the PD through STUN are primarily combat stats...you and I can debate that somewhere else if you wish (I freely admit SPD has "out of combat" uses)...but SPD is a figured characteristic in most games, and should be analyzed as such. So, in my view it is much more fair to compare SPD to PD or ED instead of STR. If you bought PD (or ED) - costs END...could you choose to spend the END after someone hit you? Or do you spend it before? Hmmm....this logical construct seems to lean toward paying the END for the SPD every phase if I want the option of having the extra phases available. My House:: If forced to, I would prefer to charge for activation on Post Phase 12, and paying END during the extra phases. If you choose not to use one of the extra phases, then you have turned off the power. If you turn off the power, you may not reactivate until Post Phase 12. This also holds for taking a recovery...since you have to turn it off. I do agree it's wrong to charge the high SPD characters MORE END for a small boost than a low SPD character. Consider this though, this would be a particularly devastating construct in a Heroic campaign with Normal Char Maxima... Steve's ruling are usually system wide, not genre specific... I'd still prefer to go with "Susceptible to SPD usage over 4", or to put Side Effects on the extra pips of SPD. It's a construct...of course there are flaws.

Huhg, I was thinking it wopuld grab everything as a whole, foci, debris, loose items.... I'd rule Fine Manipulation would be necessary to affect an individual target within the area - ie. turn the gun on the wielder and pull the trigger

I forgot Suppress is cumulative now....you can substitute that for the Drain dice, can one keep the -20 limitation in taht case? Opinions?

That may be the crux of Steve's opinion. You have the OPTION of taking an action...you are not aborting, or dodging or diving for cover, you have the option of using a full phase normally. If you choose not ot, you do not pay END. If you choose to do so, you pay END to "activate" your extra SPD...observe...ACTIVATE. How can you have the option to use it if it isn't activated? But I also think it is a little harsh to pay END every Phase for the effect. So, alternate structures come to mind. Hypermode feels like a munchkin combat effect...I'd go with the aforementione 1/4 limitation, or define it as "+4 SPD, Side Effects - Drains x END / Phase" I don't like monkeying with SPD unless it is for restricted effects, and I wouldn't allow SPD with "Costs END" in my campaing...though my alternatives are right here for you... The only other thing I can think of is defining it as an RSR power, and call it Hypermode...then add a Susceptibility Drain applied to END....you can shift the exposure time on the Drain... Those could be use OUT of combat also...with the horrid side effects postulated...

My vision of TK with Area Effect - One Hex is that it would hit the hex as a whole....grabbing everything in it....you'd definitely need the Fine Manipulation then. If you're worried about to hit rolls you can go with Based On ECV, which makes it Mental and mostly invisible, but if you're using a DEX-based TK effect and don't want to retool your character....then put Invisible Power Effects on the TK.

The attack that doesn't do "permanent" combat damage is the xd6 STUN Drain, Recovers 5pts/minute, Coninuous, Uncontrollable - OAF Suppressor Shackles, No effect on characters with less than -20 STUN, requires external power source. Linked xd6, DEF x, Entangle - Hands/Feet Only, Does not Form Barriers. There are bigger ones for those characters with large inherent power defense:: Linked, xd6 Suppress versus Power Defense. (or just 2-4d6 extra depending on GM preference) Doesn't Genocide or Stronghold or SAT or somebody have these? Actually, Genocide might have :: 6d6 Major Transform, Mutant to Human, Gradual Effect, SFX -Genetic Retrovirus.