Nadrakas

The d20 3e Core Rules are fine as far as they go. It's when you start adding in all of the other plethora of books that things get little out of control, and ultimately lead to Unintended Consequences. Even with the "Official" books, there are Feat (and class) combinations that can be overpowering. Same goes for d20 4e. It's hard to balance things in an RPG. Shoot...you know what...I've changed my mind. Let's all just switch over to RIFTS®, where there is no attempt to balance things, and we can all play the "Biggest and Baddest thing that just came out in the Newest Book" - "You want 1,000 MegaDamage? Sure, go ahead, because Joe over there has 10,000 MegaDamage because he just bought the Newest Book!" (Actually...I like "most" of the setting. Just not the Rules. And I'm kidding about switching. ). ~ N

That's what has to be decided. Do we do a "Fantasy Complete" or a series of stand alone Adventures first? This is what I would go for (In-order...more or less). Presenting the Hero System: Short Intro to the Hero System. Has a Complete Fantasy Adventure with everything self-contained, including several (6 ?) pregen characters, spells, normal items/magic items, NPCs, and monsters. Everything self contained. Hero Streamlined/Fantasy Complete (?): Basically what we've been talking about. A quick "down & dirty" character creation system. Perhaps a setting (Maybe...see Setting below) with adventures. Toolkitting in the back. Adventures (Basic): Self-contained adventures for new players. All self-contained with fully created pregen characters. All straight forward and ready to go with minimal set-up. Make it as easy as possible on everyone involved. Not "dumb"...just quick and fun. Adventures (Advanced): More robust adventures. Pregen characters with more options. Of course players can bring their own characters into the adventure. Toolkitting in the back to explain how to modify the adventure (People who have been playing the Basic Adventures may pick these up...and might need some guidance afterall). A Setting Book: Somewhere in the above (With the adventures) I'd like a setting book. This is only if Hero's won't allow for us to plug into any of the existing Hero Setting (Talking Copyright infringement here). (Note: Fantasy is looking like the way we'll go...but let's not "lock" ourselves into this. We might want a CyberFantasy, SteamFantasy, or even a straight forward Space Setting here. Let's keep thing open for now. We don't fully know where this is going...yet. ) Again, I want to keep things as straight forward as possible. Over explaining things, "extreme math" complexity (is there such a thing??), too much complexity in general, and just not explaining things well will turn people off and just drive people away. (In reality many other systems are just as -- if not more -- "math intensive" as Hero's. It's just that Hero's does all the math at the beginning.) I think that a few of the goals should be to make things easy and fun for new players, while at the same time easing any concerns they may have heard about the Hero System. Peace. ~ N

Ah, thought so. I think that the above is on target with what's been discussed. I'd like to see some stand alone" adventures that have everything inside (pregen characters, the complete adventure itself, antagonists - NPCs/Monsters, "Powers" written up/expained, combat explained, etc -- basically a "how-to" for new players). One of the things that I want to do is to make things as friendly and straight forward as possible. The full blown Hero System can be intimidate, but honestly, for a lot of people d20 (3.0/3.5, 4.0), GURPS, Palladium, and most other systems can too, if you've never played them (I've even had people say that VtM was "complicated"...). ~ N

"Keep on the Border Land" -- Classic On the others ("Against the Slave Lords" or "Against the Giants") there are Pregens and they (for the most part) take place in the same place (for the most part...). ~ N (Ok...in "Against the Giants" you go into a Wooden Keep, then Underground, then into a Fiery place, then eventually to a Cloud Castle...then eventually you fight Drow...but that's all ok...not necessarily the "same"...but still fun!!!)

Yep..."Sigh" ~ M

Ok... If a Adventure is put out for play, with pregenerated characters...and the pregenerated characters are not designed for and have nothing to do with the Adventure then why are the premade characters in the book in the first place? Maybe we're talking about two different things here. This is the way I understood it...maybe I'm wrong: Setting Book(s): Characters as you have described -- Step by Step, with simplified explanations & some tool-kitting (as has been discussed previously). Adventure(s): Pregen Characters, replete with everything ready to go so that minimal prep has to be accomplished on the players part. (Very basic explanations. Toolkitting kept to a minimum). Again, maybe I'm wrong here... ~ M

Sounds Reasonable. Sort of like the "Against the Slave Lords" or "Against the Giants" series of adventures. ~ M

I like my copy. I prefer hard-copies when I can have them. Just glad I was able to get mine now. ~ N

When it comes to the Introduction Adventures, I'd suggest that instead of a dozen or two Pregens, that we offer a small selection of characters. We could potentially give an option to customize them. For example: with the "Fighter-type" there could be a Hand-to-Hand Package and a Bow-and-Arrow Package. With the "Wizard Type" there could be a Combat Master Package and the Mind Bender Package. Each would cost the same when compared to each other (HTH vs B&A; CM vs MB) so as to keep things balanced, and would allow for the player to have some choice without overwhelming them with the entirety of the Rules. As for Adventures targeted to established players. Not sure that Pregens would be needed. If Pregens are provided...maybe more than a handful, but I wouldn't go hog-wild: No more than 8 or so. Enough to give options for the players to pick from without slowing things down in the selection process. I'd keep the "customization" process above. ~ N

(Nod) Keep it familiar. Keep it simple. Keep it on target. What you posted is pretty much on target with what BlueCloud2k2 & I've discussed. Peace. ~ N

But...I like Dwarves. I like Elves too...preferably cooked and roasted. But in all seriousness, I can go either way on this. ~ N

If I may. Perhaps, at first, a quick Adventure (to get our feet wet) that contains everything that the players need: Pregen PCs, Plot, NPCs, Monsters, etc. Things would have to be explained a bit more in-depth than normal when it comes to how the system works, but not to the point that it would take the place of the Core System (We're not trying to replace Hero...just attract new players afterall). I know this is kind of counter-intuitive nowadays, but it would be a starting point. It doesn't have to be long, indeed a somewhat short adventure that is focused and stays on target would probably be best (as much as adventures can do that with player's involved ). After that, move on to bigger projects, such as a Setting. ~ N

Font's are always an issue, even between the same platform. I'd say keep it to a basic Font for review, and allow the person(s) who are doing the Layout & Design hash out the Layout & Design worry about the Fonts. Agreed on the Duties. Agreed on e-mail & dropbox. Question: Is there a "dropbox" that has a post/forum/on-site message for collaboration purposes? All logical. ~ N

Question: How do we go about this? Do we do the work here, via e-mail, or via another web-site? ~ N

(Nod...) If it is anywhere else, it should be minimal...but I'm more for a Part X/Appendix section. ~ N

Gather together. Then, as for "Setting," decide on exactly what we want to do. I wouldn't go willy-nilly/hog-wild. We need to be on the same sheet-of-music, otherwise we'll be spinning our wheels. I work on a PC, but nowadays's that isn't as much of an issue as far as cross-platform comparability goes. ~ N

Agreed. Count me in. I suspect that we'll have people filling many different "Jobs." I can do Creative Writing, Layout/Design, Typesetting, PDF Creation, Graphics (To an extent - I have issues w/hand art due to physical disabilities ) For software I have Adobe CS2/InDesign2 & Corel6. For word processing I use LiberOffice. We can decide on exactly what the first project should be as we get a team together: Specific Genre, Established Setting (Legality with Hero Games??), What Exactly (Full Setting, Adventure, etc), and more. For now, I'd suggest getting a team together and perhaps keeping our ambitions realistic -- start small at first, then work on a larger project(s) as we grow/get comfortable doing this sort of thing. Peace. ~ N

In concept, yes. I had forgotten about this. Thanks for mentioning it Chris. ~ N

Perhaps in a Sidebar? -- but then the Tool Kitting would be short by necessity. I wouldn't want to scare away people with the "math" here. That is one of the biggest complaints that people tend to have with Hero's -- it's Math Intensive (Though there are plenty of Math Intensive systems out there...Hero's just Front Loads the Math, as opposed to spreading things out...). Along with being "overly complex & wordy." (I don't have a problem with either...but I'm olde and cantankerous ). Again, this would be focused toward the New Players, not toward the Established Players. We can make products for the Established Players that is is like the Regular Products, just the "Hero Basic" products would be streamlined. Don't know if I'm explaining this well... ~ N

That is good news. I don't wish any health problems on anyone. ~ N

(BlueCloud2k2 and I talked about this through Messaging...not posting for him...) This wouldn't necessarily be for the experienced Hero Gamer. It would be an Introduction to New Players. Think of this as kind of like the D&D Basic to Immortal Sets: Basic Set (1st - 3rd Level), Expert Set (4th - 14th Level), Companion Set (15th - 25th Level), Master Level (26th - 36th Level) and Immortal Set (Well...Immortals). This would be an Introduction, leading into the Main Hero Rules. You'd have a very simplified character creation built through a Modified Template structure, with all "Powers" having their game effects described in the Flavor Text -- accompanied by standard Hero Rules States. Some Tool Kitting could be included in the back, with a short introduction/explanation of the Hero System (not overwhelming...), in order to attract New Players. Character Creation would be a quick "plug & play" method. Come up with a concept, choose a "Template" at each Step, write the Characteristics/Skills/Combat Values/etc and you're ready to go. (Think VtM Character Creation...) As far as a "Human Package Deal" -- Why not?? Each Race gets a Base in each Characteristic (Example: Human's get 10's. Elves get 8's or 10's in most things, while some are lower or higher. Same with the other races.). You write any "Specials" (Powers, etc) that go along with the Race. Then move on to the next Step. Keeping the Points Even at each Step allows for things to Balance at the end. Again...K.I.S.S.. I know this is Jarring to the regular Hero Player, but I'm trying to "Think Outside the Box" here. Trying to attract New Players. If we keep doing the same thing over, and over, and over...then the number of new player's that we attract will continue to diminish, and eventually we'll all be old fogies wishing for the "Good Olde Days." This doesn't mean that the System needs to be changed -- it doesn't. Just that a simpler "Plug & Play Character Creation" might -- just might -- attract a few new players, which might spread...and eventually, some of these new Player's might spend the time to learn the System, spend a little money and help expand the overall Line. A long-term strategy....not a quick fix. Note: I am not necessarily wedded to the "Human, Elves, Dwarves, etc" thing, or even a Fantasy Setting (Despite this being a Fantasy Forum). This would have to be decided by a group consensuses as to the Genre, What was being done (Full Setting, Adventure, Character/Monster/Power Book, etc), along with a great many other details. Something like this -- even small -- requires a LOT of work (One that I'm willing to commit to with help) and shouldn't be entered into lightly...though any amount of time & effort would be appreciated. Peace. ~ N

I received the HERO System Martial Arts, along with the Hero System Equipment Guide, yesterday afternoon. I've gone over them both and I am very please with the High Quality of both products. The binding is very good, and the text is very legible with no sign of smudges (I've seen this in other PODs in the past...but not from RPGNow...). Overall, I am VERY Pleased! Thank You for providing this as a POD! ~ Nadrakas

I received the Hero System Equipment Guide, along with the HERO System Martial Arts, yesterday afternoon. I've gone over them both and I am very please with the High Quality of both products. The binding is very good, and the text is very legible with no sign of smudges (I've seen this in other PODs in the past...but not from RPGNow...). Overall, I am VERY Pleased! Thank You for providing this as a POD! ~ Nadrakas

KISS -- Keep It Simple Silly ~ N

This is one of the reasons I think that Vampire the Masquerade (And the other WoD settings) did so well (and still have a following). You could open the book, follow a relatively easy to follow character creation, and in a pretty short time have a completed character. I know, comparing any WW product to Hero is like comparing Apples & Oranges, but they were "out of the box playable." So, create the writeups to be easily understood without being overly "Rules Lawyerish." Tool Kitting: I'd keep it to a minimum and away from the initial writeups -- say in the back of the book -- for when the players want to read about it. Don't force it on them...let them read it when they are ready. Prebuilds: Might I suggest using something akin to "Templates" in a step-by-step process to build characters? This would allow players to build their characters while also learning a little about the game at the same time. Examples: Step 1) What Race are You? (Human, Elf, Dwarf, Wookie, Ewok, Eldar, etc...). Step 2) What happened to You during You're Childhood? (Wonderful Education, Born into a Peasant Family, Born with a Silver Spoon in Mouth, War Orphan, Orphan, etc). Step 3) What happened to You during You're Adolescence? (Apprenticed to a Craftsman, Ran Away From Home, Kidnapped!, Street Rat, Young Noble). Step 4) What do You do as an Adult? (Soldier, Politician, Hacker, Spacer, Bum, etc). Step 5) Divide up You're Bonus Character Points. Note that each of the above Steps would be a little more involved, in that they would across the board add to the Characteristics of the Character at each Step. Also, each Step would cost the same (Step 1 costs V, Step 2, costs W, Step 3 Costs X, etc; -- and yes, would take some work to balance each of them...), in order to keep the final cost "balanced." Various Complications could/should also be included at each step for Player's to choose from. And of course, each of the Steps should include a well thought out bit of Flavor Text. I know this is taking people by the hand, but it's a teaching method. ~ N