Fox1

Re: Introductions and a question about jumping.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules.

Re: Vehicle DEX I didn't see it when I looked, saw a Champions 2nd Edition set. Maybe I'm clueless. Here's a ebay link to the book I'm speaking of: http://cgi.ebay.com/Champions-RPG-Champions-II-accessory_W0QQitemZ3181769707QQcategoryZ2548QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem It really is a much improved way of building vehicles. Now that I've worked out the basics of damage I may go back to using it.

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers The only note about negative modifiers I recall from the 5th edition (revised) is on page 483. There it notes that RMod bonuses are brought as a 3 point when positive and as a minor Side Effect (-1/2) when negative. Same with OCV on page 482 except bonuses are brought at 5 points per. Sucks if you ask me. The old way was better.

Re: Vehicle DEX

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers Penalty Skill Levels are used as postive values to offset Penalities, such as range modifiers.

Re: New Option for Vehicle Combat

Re: Vehicle DEX They used to be. And they can be made so again. This 'problem' already exists. How do you currently move 60 mph with a SPD 4 character in HERO? The answer is that you don't, you move a rounded number of inches in each of the 4 phases that's somewhat close to 60 mph. This is in no significant way different. Call it close, round it off, and call it good. You're vastly overthinking this and causing yourself problems. The old rules allowed you to adjust your speed by a given acceleration/deacceleration value every segment as the driver wished. The game used to work this way. It was only a mistaken desire to force vehicles to function exactly as characters that changed it.

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers They used to be used all the time for just this sort of thing. Now there's no mention of them and limits are used instead.

Re: Vehicle DEX That's what turn modes are for. There a number of ways of handling this. The simple method is just to have the driver declare both his combat action and entire course until his next segment, i.e. exactly what happens now if you've purchused the vehicles movement to match the character's SPD to produced a desired mph velocity. Only instead of moving the entire distance in one segment you move at the vehicles declared movement rate each segment. Another simple method is just to allow the player free movement control on those segments he doesn't go in- but no other action or change of action unless he aborts, i.e. the way the game used to work. That's what Turn Modes are for.

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers I just use negative skill levels and call it good. Pity those were removed from the system.

Re: Vehicle DEX

Re: Vehicle DEX

Re: Vehicle DEX All in all this is easy and important 'fix' for vehicles.

Re: New Option for Vehicle Combat Here's a link for a number of frontal armor values: http://members.tripod.com/collinsj/protect.htm Flank/rear/top/bottom values are much harder to come by and I don't have a good online source. I based the conversions on my site off an old copy of Tractics (old style wargame minis system) I had and some guesswork. Due to the Exponential nature of HERO (and as a result the conversion chart), small differences are generally lost. So close works here just as it does in hand grenades.

Re: New Option for Vehicle Combat

Re: New Option for Vehicle Combat Thanks. As the Barrier Defense rules noted, such defenses do typically buy one level of hardened armor. It was needed to avoid the common firearm based piercing effects that my house rules have. I've updated the ammunitions page on my website to reflect the change, with AP ammo now doing 3 points of Resistant Piercing + 1 point resistant Piercing with Armor Piercing (+1/4). It now matches the Heavy Weapon and Armor Rules modeling various AP ammon coming into service now. Example: A .308 (2d6+1K) would have a Penetration value of 7 points. If it was using AP ammo that would increase by 1 to 8 points due to the single point of Piercing with the AP advantage that such ammo comes with. This is way the same rules can be used to more realistically model today's body armor. Class III armor can be pointed to stop exactly the weapons it's rated in real life to stop, but not the next weapon up from there.

Re: New Option for Vehicle Combat I did just that as a stop gap method since the idea first was published in Golden Age of Champions back in the day. There it was only for shape charges, but the idea works. I decide to change it because a) it's a complex build, .50 cal HMGs blow thru a suprising amount of armor and can't really be 'exploding' inside, and c) the problem with containing the random penetration range and still using a Bell curve to resolve it. Well as I noted above, A Penetration 20 attack is nothing more than a standard effect on a 90 AP attack, plus 5 point standard effect Act 12-, plus 5 points standard effect Acts 8. Edit: Or even better, look at a 20 point Barrier Defense being bought this way: Defense 18, +1 Def Acts on 9+, +2 Def Acts on 13+. All attacks are standard effect against it. All covered in the -1/4 limit: Barrier Defense The only change from the system is that its applied to everything as a default and thus explictly built out that way. Very true. The effect of Range (defining it and the impact on penetration) and rate of fire is work I still have to do. This is just the down range damage part of the question.

Re: New Option for Vehicle Combat Certainly wouldn't meet the goal I set. I wanted to represent the reality of heavy weapon penetration. If it doesn't penetration it doesn't penetrate. But if it does, there's hell to pay- i.e. full damage is done. There's no easy way to do that using the standard defense mechanics without using linked powers with complex limits and high total Active Points usage. Dark Champions or the old Champions III book. Basically for a 3 point adder you can have an attack ignore one point of resistant defense treating it as if it didn't exist. Thanks. Did that for my old firearm rules. Couldn't do handguns right without it Did it long before HERO put the Reduced Penetration limit in the game. Always wondered why they used such a clumsy and inflexible method.

Re: How much attention do you give to powers' Senses visibility rules? I use the rules as they are written in the book. Seems simple enough to me.

I don't think it should come as a suprise to know that I've always considered vehicle combat in HERO to be... well screwed up due to some of the things in HERO that make it work so well for character based combat. The highly random range of attacks for example cause inflated DEF values for vehicles in order to protected them from small arms and other weapons that they should logically be immune to. That inflation in turn drives up the damage dice of anti-tank weapons to high levels to do any BODY at all to their intended targets. BODY is then increase to represent some ability to withstand damage... and so on. The final result is almost D&D like Hit Point system as Battle Tanks chip away at each others armor instead of launching a killing blow from a weakly defended angle. Even worse is the disconnect often spoken of on these boards and Superheroes that require all sorts of cute tricks and rule overrides to overcome. So... I set out to fix all that. House Rules rock you know. I may have be successful, haven't played tested it much yet. I'm mixed on it in a way because it is in part a new resolution method for HERO and frankly I like avoid that much change. It also seems a lot for something that I've learn to avoid in my games. But in a choice of not using or using vehicles due to the current rules, a significant change can at least keep me from pulling out another game anytime someone steps into the driver's seat. So I'm mixed on my effort at this point. I'll give it a spin and see how it goes. The core idea actually is very much inspired by HERO. Forcewalls and Vehicles by their nature represent a different type of DEF, one that doesn't allow stun to pass unless it has been penetrated by BODY damage. Tagging this with the term Barrier Defense, and expanding some of my firearms work- I've put the 'beta' for the Barrier Defense, Vehicle Armor, and Heavy Weapons up on my website. While intended for vehicles, it has other applications. It would be easy to use to better represent some comic genre Force Walls IMO, and doing a far more realistic build of personal bullet proof armor would be a snap. The Key areas the website are as follows: Hero System House Rules -> Limits- New -> Barrier Defense -> Real World Conversions -> Vehicle Armor -> Real World Conversions -> Heavy Weapons Anyone interested can look it over and pass along any comments they may have.

Re: I could watch him get slapped around all day

Re: Overwhelming PRE attacks

Re: Overwhelming PRE attacks If they refuse to obey your restriction their PRE attacks (getting around it with cute builds is a refusal), do one of the following: 1. Remove PRE attacks from the game. 2. Tell them to take a flying leap.

Re: Why exponential progression doesn't work for damage Certainly. HERO's BODY stat is basically a 'broken' point. The 2x BODY = Destroyed is just a simple rule for those who need a number for some reason.