Thia Halmades

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System I think an EC works as follows: - Buy EC. All powers within the EC must have an Active Point value equal to or greater than the pool of the EC. The EC stacks with all powers within the EC, adding to their total effective value in terms of Active Points for purposes of determining effects. However, these points are not figured into the build of the power itself. - For example. I have an EC worth 15 points (vanilla). If I buy a 15 point EB (3d6 normal damage, vanilla) it now becomes a 30 point EB (6d6 normal damage) because it stacks with the EC. - I can have a 30 point EB, and it would be worth 45 within the EC. - I cannot have a 10 point EB, because it is less than the point value of the EC. If I'm right, my concern is a matter of points in terms of spells & real cost for the PC. I still want them to have access to a decent array of spells, and that's difficult to do in an EC, and that's what I'm talking about in general.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System So you just used a standard EC, and then charge them in RP straight up for any powers taken within the EC, yeah? No cost break for powers, just the final Real Cost? I was thinking of using the RC/3 rule to make gaining powers reasonable instead of breaking the PC bank. Thoughts?

Re: Things you do to acheive immersion If I could draw, my games would be better served. I do the basics: - Draft maps and put them on the hex board for ease of movement, change lighting, etc. - I give lengthy, detailed descriptions. For a while I was concerned I was boring everyone, but they're in high demand, so that's good news. That alone actually does a great deal. - I do a lot of research on ships, costuming, weapons, blazons, and what have you. I've found that taking an idea and expanding on it, rather than trying a half dozen ideas, is usually a good plan. Heraldry is a major part of my campaign, as is well-enough constructed ships to pass fantasy muster, without trying to rewrite Master & Commander. - I try to make sure I have my Monster Manual on hand with creature images as necessary. I've considered what mayapuppies did, but that's a bit more work on 'look & feel' than I was willing to put in, when I could be spending that time drafting new plot lines and concocting NPCs. - I strive to make every single NPC different; even the mooks have minor variances in my head, then aren't just cannon fodder, and villains aren't just villains; they generally have motivations, and RPing their reactions based on how they think makes them unique, understandable, and very, very hatable. - Taking a nod from Quentin Tarantino, I also try to match music with environment, that isn't the LOTR soundtrack. For example, when in Aelvish lands I'll play Medieval Babes, because they sing in so many different languages. When in a dockside town, I prefer Great Big Sea or a similar feel, such as Father, Son & Friends for the appropriate setting. - For doing things such as handing out leaflets and what not, I'll usually douse the paper in coffee, then hang it to dry. While you get slightly coffee smelling paper, the effect is perfect. Yellowed, a little crinkled, and with a few tears, comes out exactly as you'd imagine. I drafted an entire document (took me a good three hours) of one man's insanity, using looping circles for his writing. From afar it looked like a series of twisted, flowing lines, similar to the pattern seen in a Van Gogh painting, but when you started reading it, you had to twist your head, twist the paper, and see how far gone dude was. That I got mad props for. And I bust my butt making sure I know everything in advance; each MOBs basic stats, the plot, the names of necessary NPCs and the flow and pacing of the story. Once I've done all that, I do more as necessary. But that's my basic prep.

Re: 31 Days of Spells These are great points of reference for teh n00baz, like myself, as well as being very groovy constructions, Super Squirrel. Could you possibly explain real quick the whole "Power PLUS Some More Stuff" concept? I've seen it, but can't seem to choke an adequate explanation out of FREd. Thanks!

Re: Social Class name help Groovy! I'll have to hold onto that link. Somewhere.

Re: Social Class name help *points to McCoy & Captain Obvious* Yeah, that, but with a pre-built Tolkien translation. Geez, you guys, always so "nyah, nyah!" Hmph! I'm going to go over here with my meticulous research and scratch my butt with my pen.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System All things being equal, Killer Shrike, I think you've gone well above & beyond any concerns I may have had about your humility in general. Between your dedicated (although sometimes too advanced for my primitive world) assistance and dogged determination, I've got a magic system that works and, more importantly, that I understand. Finally. I still want to do Sorcery as an EC, but that would involve hand waving to make the powers themselves accessible, and that isn't what an EC is for, which is sad, because it fits my view of what sorcery should be perfectly. However, if I push down the cap too far, the powers either become too common or, not enough, wholly inaccessible. Yeargh.

Re: Chronicles of Gor Captain Obvious: These are not the choke collars and leather straps that you're looking for. Move along. Move along.

Re: Quickie CSL question. I think when I have more time and a little more grep on the rules, I'm going to go whole-hog and make a Giant Fighting Martial Art. Too Big For You Fu. Then. Maybe. I'll get back to 'serious' design principles.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System I did read it, but it only seems to halve the DCV of the caster while in the process of casting. Out of curiosity, other than a Held Action, can someone abort to nail a caster in mid incant, or is that part & parcel of a subset of Concentration (-1/4)? I was actually blending my comprehension of the default structure (cough up anything) with the limitation "only known spells" thus keeping the PC from "coughing up anything." I actually think I get this, although no where near the clarity that you do, I'm at least on the boat. In the back. In the luggage compartment. Where for no apparant reason I'm having more fun than the people with a googleplex of money on deck. But I'm on the ship. No iceberg! No iceberg! I actually get this, but my ability to confer my understanding is still off because my skill with the lexicon is only decent, and not yet "good." I know that the PC in general will do everything possible to push down their cost for their Control Pool. Now that I grasp more of the interplay of mechanics, all of your math is making more sense every day. I'll likely use your strata to save myself confusion, if you don't mind. I went with: * Only Change Spells With Spell Book & Study Time (-1/2) which is a much more realistic guage of how much the Spell Book / prep time limits a caster of this sort. This is a non-Lim. Charges already do this. Charges = doi. Mea culpa. As Archon said at one point (or possibly The Fool) this is going zoom still, but partly because you're using your own lingo from your own constructions. I think so far I've struck on the whole "don't charge them for spells" concept and we're all on board with that. That's good! I are pleased. I think I get this, but won't try to reiterate. I'll just soak my brain in it a bit. I'll return to this later. Yes, this. This is about the most important thing you've covered so far (for me and what I'm doing), and I think it's the exact same thing I'm on my way to doing; why 17.5? And (pardon) how does it cost a 1/2 point? I do grasp the tiered concept, but what's the end result? Or do you just have 6 points of lims on the Control Cost so 15 points generated a 2.5 spend on the Control Cost? This appears to be exactly what I intended on doing; slotting in the Real Cost of the spell into the VPP Active Points and calling it 'prepared.' I also noticed that you changed up charges to account for longer duration spells; each has one charge, but not all charges are 'instants.' That was pretty awesome, by the way. Just that pool of 40 spells alone is astonishingly varied and gives plenty of reason to have multiple spells available. Is there a cut-off point I should be aware of in a Sword & Sorcery campaign to keep them from getting out of hand? I'd like to avoid "very dangerous" and anything past "very dangerous." This includes "mighty dangerous," "a little too dangerous," and "oh dear God what is that thing" dangerous. Elsewhere in this thread is a post by AmadanNaBriona (aka The Fool, as I refer to him) which states: instead of building one and having the cost go into the other, you build both separately, and allow the Control Costs (Active Points * 2) to determine the most powerful spell you can cast. That was the plan, and I thought it made the Control Cost something other than just a tax. It was actually pretty easy to wrap my head around, but I can also concede the argument of saving it for later. Got this. Understood. Wow. This just really, really clarified a lot of what I was already thinking of doing. I think that does it; and astonishingly, it wound up looking almost exactly as how you did it originally. Just took me a lot longer to get there, because I had to understand it for myself before I could employ it. Fantastic. Thank you. Next: Sorcery. Mua ha ha.

Re: What Are You Listening To Right Now? Lord Mhoram - always awesome to come across someone who knows Lehrer. Repped. I'm being very conservative today, just listening to some DMB. Soothing. Might go home early.

Re: Social Class name help From a Tolkien Dictionary, a collection of two words: La, meaning 'not' and Dúnhere being a fortified place, this being Elvish can me different things for different people (protection, "house", "home & hearth" "acceptance" etc.). Hence, your outcasts could become: Ladunhere, and I'd put the emphasis on the first syllable LADunhere or on the last syllable, ladunHERE, with 'here' pronounced 'hare-ay.' So, la-dun-hare-ay. Sounds fancy, comes from Tolkien, draws on actual Gaelic roots. Let me know if that helps. I'd've posted sooner, but it took me a bit to get you a decent answer.

Re: Chronicles of Gor Oh for the love of... Why don't we go read Wizard's First Rule - at least then the mistresses of pain and their Agiel's are painted as pitiable, and not the stern masters who give us our freedom by enslaving us to their way of thinking. I swear, everytime I think about that I get sick. I saw an episode of House about a guy who enjoyed getting choked out by his mistress, and it was all about "being free by giving someone else control." Screw you, lady, I'll keep control, thanks very much.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System Evidently I miss a lot when I'm actually at a game it seems. Good morning! Of the many things that caught my eye, this was a major one: I was actually mulling over this myself, because despite having to pay to improve it, in a sense it's almost like a backwards Charge; a Charge is a pendulum mechanic that begins as a disad (only one Charge) and improves to an Advantage (+64 charges, to use FREd's example of the supervillain Lazer, f'rinstance). What I actually want to do is split the difference; I want to have my casters (at least my Wizards) prepping their spells in advance and, as Killer Shrike said, making those tactical decisions. I think I've finally wrapped my head around the pure concept of VPP, to the point where I see its inherent differences compared to both EC and MP. With that said, my current model looks like this: Skill Requirement: All Wizards, either through training or self-teaching, have learned how to wield magick as a tool. Like any tool, it can serve multiple purposes, but magick itself is a science, and a Wizard is a scientist. They are required to have Craft: Arcane as a skill; it governs their ability to learn new spells, understand scrolls, and so on. Skill note two: This magick system makes an assumption; that a wizard is casting in ideal circumstances. Hence, no skill roll is required just to cast the spell. However, the moment those circumstances turn sour (anyone with a held action hits the caster, there's a stiff wind, God sneezes) a skill roll is required to avoid fizzling. That skill is Concentration. When a Concentration roll is made, it's modified by 1/10 the Active Cost of the spell, and any circumstanial modifiers (total BODY taken, etc.) Magic is built on a VPP model; that model breaks from the 'norm' in a number of by-the-book ways. First, it's my understanding that there is normally no limit on what a PC can do with a VPP; they simply consider an effect and bam, it happens. So, first, Only Known Spells may be cast from the VPP (-1). Second, the PC must slot spells into the framework in the morning in terms of Real Points against their available Active Points, and they must sit down with Honkin' Big Book o' Spells (-1/2) in order to change any prepared spells. Also, the magic 'fuel' they have only replenishes after a night's rest (-1/2). Lastly, all spells Must Have One Charge (-1/2), to simulate the ability to memorize and cast multiple instances of the spell, rather than simply slot in "Lightning Bolt" and cast it repeatedly because it's been placed in the framework that morning. Because under a normal VPP there's no limit to the types of spells that a PC can cast, charging them CP for spells is actually redundant under RAW unless I'm being an absolute git; they already 'paid' for the magic, and the pool limits the casting they can do. Ergo, any spell they research (skill roll) or attempt to copy from a scroll (skill roll) or read off someone's tattoo (skill roll) costs no CP; it's simply an extension of the points they paid for the VPP originally. Third. As The Fool had pointed out before, you can divorce the cost between the Active Pool and the Control Pool. Under RAW, the Control Cost * 2 = Active Pool = Most Powerful Spell Known. These are being separated; the PC can improve the Control Pool and learn more powerful magic, or they can improve the VPP and cast more often. Any points spent on the VPP to improve it may be spent (* 3) to purchase new spells. I need to draft something like research rules to cover the mage's ability to create new spells. I think that's everything so far; I think. I may be missing something in my initial breakdown, but it looks normal. Insofar as to what Killer Shrike was saying in terms of HERO being an MPG (Math Playing Game) that the DM (moi) has a hair up his **** about, yeah, the one person who'll get the magic system has been resistant because he has great stats in d20 and those will either go away or have to be paid for; I'm comfortable with that. He's not, but I am. One of the things I was also concerned about was how many spells he had in d20, but that isn't as much of a concern in HERO. I'm considering giving him his (Active Pool * 2) in Real Points for memorization purposes, to come fairly close to simulating a d20 pool, but I haven't settled on that yet. I've been able to sell just about everyone on the idea simply by advent of pointing out that most of them are distressed with d20 because they have to contort things to get what they want, whereas HERO and its floating math system allow all sorts of insanity because you have access to the Source Code that wrote the game in the first place. That's the major advantage, really. Thoughts? Good morning!

Re: Worldbuilding exercise It actually never occured to me to post session reports, actually. I don't think I'd know where to begin, what with the whole mess being three years old and going strong. It's something I may consider for the future, though. Right now most of my effort is going towards building everything I need in HERO while keeping up on my plot design.

Re: DUNGEON Adventures Magazine They're after me. I swear it. You have to help me. *sksshhhht* Noooo!

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System Cut & pasted and emailed to my friend so we can review it together on Saturday, but I'll respond in full in the morning. However, this may be an equitable solution. The only disad is the purchase of spells, because I want the Wizard to have access to a ton of spells without spending a ton of resources; what would you suggest as the easiest work around?

Re: Chronicles of Gor Done & done. I needed to hand out rep to someone else anyway.

Re: DUNGEON Adventures Magazine You know it's bad when he spells Palindromedary with two "l's".

Re: 17thc Sailling ship It would be cool. If I could see it. Curses.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System I think you said what I wanted to say, but way more clearly. With that, what do you think of using the Delayed Effect construction as a way of making sure that not everyone is slinging a gabillion spells a day? Or would you simply go with having them assigning their REAL point values into the pool for each instance of the spell they wish to cast and have them pick and choose?

Re: DUNGEON Adventures Magazine *blushes furiously* Let it be known that as a rule, I don't handle compliments too well, but you're very welcome. Not like I haven't been picking people's brains since I got here, so I'm happy to give back. Keep posting and as you come across questions and problems, either myself or one of the other board lords can either answer it directly (Why does a plot work? How do I build Magic Missile?) and rules questions you can ask Steve Long, or turn to us for house rules, design considerations, etc. As always, you need, you ask, we answer. We'll even try to be nice about it. They're nice to me... but I think they're considering fattening me up for Christmas dinner, as well, so that may be misleading.

Re: DUNGEON Adventures Magazine Well, I can say from experience that I tend to avoid pre-genned material, so insofar as doing a full reconstruction in terms of "this to that" I can't be of much use, but having built a whole mess of story arcs, that I can probably help with. First thing you'll want to do is disect the whole mess. Sit down with a few hours and pour through the material; get a mental handle on the flow of the adventure and where the designers intended it to go. Understand any interplay between designed combats, level structure, and quest specific items vs. random treasure drops. Said other way; go straight past the operating system and into the heart of the beast. What's making this adventure tick, and is it working? Once you've established the foundation of what the adventure is trying to do, you'll be in a pretty good position to start reconstructing it. Obviously you'll be doing a lot of conversions from d20 to HERO, which will include rebuilding MOBs of appropriate power levels, installing NPCs under point buy, etc. I can also suggest the thread I have going on building an internally consistent magic system in HERO, as one does not exist, just the tools to design one. It does require some rules creation (Steve, The Fool, Chris Goodwin, Archon, Killer Shrike and a bunch of other people have really, really gone above and beyond for me on that thread alone) so you can have a system that works for you. It's probably the single most daunting task you'll face. Class design is easy, and is a simple matter of determining how much freedom you want the PCs to have (none, some, all). I suggest going with what i3ullseye and I agree on (and Killer Shrike) and build package deals that leave the PCs with plenty of wiggle-room. You'll also want to directly import alignments for ease of use; that way when your Paladin uses Detect Evil it won't be a judgment call; you'll know the alignment. While HERO eschews absolutes, it's one of the few things that, properly handled, can actually make your life much easier. I have a nine page article I wrote on alignments in a sublime reality, but it's a bit lengthy to post. Then build the bridges that take you from one story arc to another; this is part of your pacing, which is the lifeblood of storytelling. I suggest thinking of it as a 'breathing exercise.' In "normal pacing," you're breathing easily. You can jog, walk, drink your coffee. All fine. Walk and chew gum. Down time, or long lulls are 'relaxing' - they're down time for the PCs, deep breathing/meditative states. When you use this stage, it'll be as a break. It gives them time to spend CP, build items, and ask questions. Those are the easy ones; think of it as the difference between being awake and active in game, and sleeping - doing things mentally outside of your characters interaction with the world. Your adventure should follow a standard breathing regiment: Normal, which should flow to quickened. Quickened breathing is what you experience during exercise; it represents exertion. Dice rollling, plot hooking, and minor combats are all Quickened. I suggest using a sine wave; quickened, normal, quickened, normal - and get the PCs into that pattern. Build a sense of confidence (albeit false confidence) that they know what's going on and what to expect. From this, you get your PCs to take a sharp intake of breath. Sharp Intakes are your money shots. A character takes a sharp intake when facing down a boss, about to make a do or die roll next to a lava pit; determining whether or not the trap is about to blast the party to pieces. This is the most heightened state, but if you use it too much, you'll lose the effect. If your players are talking about those moments with a sort of reserved reverence, you've done it right. I bring all of this up because when you sit down to run the game, you really want to make sure that within the confines of what you're doing the PCs have access (and the freedom, to a certain extent) to get the tools they need. The hardest thing to manage in a story is appropriate pacing while still giving the PCs freedom to move and explore. In a pre-genned story, many of their decisions have been made for them, so you have a little more freedom to do that. A well drafted pre-gen story will have this flow built in; the authors generally know their audience and how to run a good game. Once you rebuild it, you'll really want to keep an eye on it. An adventure is something like a travelogue in that sense; it only gets good once you've torn it apart and put it back together again and been through it yourself and seen those sites in your head, and determined the best way to express them to others. Hope that helps.

Re: The First Hurdle: Creating a *gulp* Magic System Actually, the plan was to have the limitation All Spells Must Have One Charge (-2) and then assign each spell as one charge (as Killer Shrike did). Then you would slot in each instance of the spell into the VPP as assigned Real Points against a total cap of the VPP x 2 or x 3. Hence, a 60 pt. VPP would allow 180 Real Points of spells to be placed in it (again, using Killer Shrike's model, in combination with a few other bits & pieces). This generates a memorization model, where each "real" slot is One Charge. Because of the nature of the VPP, and there's no limit to what you can do with it (i.e., you can know any number of spells, because technically you can use it however you like) this removes the requirement for END and creates a natural slot system. Using a Delayed Advantage model allows a similar flexibility, but it gets expensive, so it would make more sense as a feature, rather than a build structure for a 150 pt. HERO, unless there's something in the math I'm not catching, or y'all would suggest not charging the caster for his spells - i.e., he can learn any new spells as part of his VPP at no limit. archon - we're modifying the VPP model slightly, rather than capping out the number of abilities you could have, we're capping the number of abilities you can have 'active' at any one time. This is because it's a bit of a royal pain to 'simulate' a structured magic style, and the whole exercise may eventually become moot, but I've learned more in this one discussion about Power Frameworks than I could have hoped to achieve on my own in time to prepare all this material for my game. Using the Charge model, and assuming Verbal (.25)/Somatic (.25)/Material (~1.25) with the charge attached (-2.00) it comes out to roughly -4.75 on every spell, which makes them all extremely cheap, and going on a Real Cost model would make them fit very neatly into the allocable "real points" of the VPP pool itself. I'm not requiring RSR because I'm making an exception for this game; d20 (to reference material I know for a second) does, in fact, use an RSR model; but it only comes into play when conditions become unfavorable. For example, when someone looks at you funny, you make a Concentration check. You get hit? Concentration. Ship moving beneath your fit? Concentration. Mother in law visiting? Concentration. So I'm going to use the exact same mechanics for RSR; you aren't required to toss dice to confirm fizzle unless you are in less than ideal conditions, then all modifiers apply. Next game (hopefully my Urban Fantasy setting) I'll go full blown RSR. I'm also going to test it out on Summon Spells and the like. And, as the post says, this is the first hurdle. I also need to read up on how people are handling magic item creation, because I can't have people running around and burning points to cough up an item they have no business making. Rogues making Wands of Fireballs? No. No, I don't think so.

Re: Quickie CSL question. I actually hadn't thought about that, but the pricing doesn't match out; a +1 OCV with a weapon is worth 2; that doesn't cost out correctly, and I wanted a more... finesse over power approach, I suppose is what I'd want to say in that regard. I'm all for making adjustments to powers as necessary, but I figured there was an easier way that existed in the framework, rather than modify a different rule. However! You have an excellent point for how to stack in any additional damage abilities they may have, which is exactly the sort of thing that Talent is for. Thanks for the reminder, outsider!