TheDarkness

Disarm is another maneuver that has come up that would be tricky, I think. I also have a weird question. Should grabs be effect wise mimicking sticky, or vice versa? It seems to me that if it is the former, almost any situation using STR except blows would require buying a limited form of sticky.

So that the superhuman thrower might go with change environment, but the more modest Dark Champion might be using just added STR for KB/KD only.

Actually, a thought. Would it be more effective for trips and throws, in short, things where the target falls, to do something with added STR for knockback only? And use knockdown only for throws that are not distance throws? I will admit to not being as strong at the builds as you guys are, so sometimes, my head spins and I speak in tongues the moment I try to fathom what I am trying to build. It just seems strange to me to use a power for something like falling down, which basically has a rule in place already.

Where I disagree is in the fact that that would be better than a counterstrike. That would be the perfect counterstrike, as no roll to hit is necessary. That would be a superhuman counterstriker, but an ordinary one, I favor a strike. My issue with the counterstrike rules is that they simply are not a counterstrike. A counterstrike lands at the end moment of the strike it's a counter for, and takes advantage of that moment and positioning. I can think of no single exception. As it stands, the current rules for counterstrike have an effect more like offensive footwork, and so relating it to a strike seems unnecessary. It seems like we all agree that a counterstrike is pretty much a triggered thing. For some reason, I was under the impression that change environment was the way target falls was done, but I haven't looked closely at that power yet. Many of the maneuvers are fairly simple. CSLs, not much else to them. Some are not. Grabs, for instance, and throws. Haymakers as well, though maybe I'm overthinking that. The bulk of maneuvers can mostly be done with a certain amount of CSLs one can shift around. I'm in full agreement on the comment regarding frameworks, that seems necessary. Thanks for starting the thread, Lucius! Or was it one or the other ends of the palindromedary that did it? Both?!!

This reasoning never works with my wife. Despite the numerous times that my alternate Earth self has reorganized the can goods into my preferred order(in short, real order, versus "lima beans and tomato products DO NOT BELONG IN THE SAME ROWS, DAMNIT!) She will never know what a hero he is on his world. I am lucky he is looking out for me, but until we are seen in the same place at the same time, she doubts my word.

I'm pretty sure he says they have no way at all to get there. Much as I enjoy the show, that episode had some big writing problems. If he thought it wasn't a reliable way, but he had been to other earths by running, he absolutely puts no effort into getting help working out a way to do it. But really, the entire tone of the episode was that he thought he couldn't get there at all. The Supergirl crossover is like a nonexistent blip. We assume that's where he was, but his insistence that without the portals, there's no way to get to Earth-2 are a bit at odds with our knowledge that he was probably just on another Earth. That said, if writing problems could kill the Flash, the comic book would have died years ago.

I totally agree with this. I might start a thread just to pick people's brains on how they would build martial arts if there was no preexisting patch. It just seems like martial arts is an area where all the flexibility of Hero goes out the window, and so discussions of it fall back on RAW in a way that often results in "you're trying to do things that the system does not work for" when, in almost every other aspect of the game, this is not as much a problem, as so much is possible. Frankly, if things were reduced to skills as powers, so much more flexibility would be possible. Certain rules would remain, and the free maneuvers should likely remain free, but it would allow so much more. As it stands, certain things become almost nonsensical(counterstrikes come to mind, the way counterstrikes play out are so out of tune with what counterstrikes are, it's almost painful to me). And so discussion sometimes turns to "well, you're trying to use the system for something that it isn't designed for" when, in fact, the patch is not designed for it, but the system is perfectly capable of producing it, were the patch not in the way. Cost, I suspect, would be the determining factor. However, and this is mere speculation, using counterstrike as an example, the cost of making a trigger that would make it useful might mitigate the purchase of this ability to counter attacks, as a substantial cost means that it is more likely to be a build that someone wishing their character to be a hth expert over other character types might be the only one willing to buy it, and the higher damage it is, the higher the cost, so for many, it might be a fairly weak attack if it isn't their specialty. The topic of triggered damage shields came up, and it's an interesting problem, as it does pose a substantial problem, though, if the shield itself is strong, that's going to be a huge cost. If your opponent's know your biggest power requires them to physically attack you, they are definitely going to find other ways to attack you so that they can make that big purchase useless. A lot of problem or munchkiny builds can be solved by making long-term opponents have brains, imo. Triggered teleport is a whole different issue. Interesting conundrum. On the flip side, someone with a triggered teleport could be repeatedly made to be anywhere but where they wanted to be. I'll have to think about that issue, but that seems like a really expensive build that might make a character who is not able to do much else.

He includes himself in that assessment. If I recall correctly, he says we.

Add to that the confusion of the fact that, in the same episode that we assume he went to her world, he later says they have no way to get to other Earths. I'm still enjoying the show, though.

Another example from my game is a helmet that contains the spirit of a crazy Spartan. The person donning it gains The Spartan's skills. Dr. Fate's helmet conveys knowledge of many things. I have a character who wears the manacles of Houdini, which allows escape artist skills. There's a slew of skills as powers in the game. I sometimes think the martial arts system simplifies things, but almost requires use of powers to customize your martial artist, give them a flavor in the game.

I have been playing with this a bit(not in game, playing with builds). I'm thinking, as others stated, that it should be done with maneuvers built through powers, as the maneuvers, as far as I can tell, are discounted, so it seems a bit cheesy to me to apply cost modifiers to alter them. That way, the cost goes up pretty quickly, and so it becomes cost inefficient to abuse. That's my theory, anyway. I'm actually thinking of messing around with just designing the maneuvers through like everything else, through powers, and not using the maneuvers table at all, aside from the freebies everyone has.

While role play mostly, for me, might be a bonus, but not expected(because not all players are actors/actresses AND screenplay writers, circumstance is of major influence. A character in my game who is a bit like a Spiderman character, but who is not infamous or famous, tried a presence attack on some thugs. He is not large, not well known, and had not shown great powers to them yet. And they were at range, and two had guns. Big penalty to his role, and one of them, their leader, used his presence, paired with shooting into the air, to mobilize his people. Presence attacks should make sense, imo.

I believe in you! You can do it!

A lot of this, imo, sprouts from people walking around with ideas of what other people are 'supposed' to socially bequest them. 'Supposed' takes away any social give and take, it misses the point of social interaction entirely. Geeks who play into this crazy, comments section level approach to their lives, invariably blame society for things other people are not having huge problems with. And then, when they do have some ability to bully, they head right for it, like, it was horrible when it happened to them, but it is their birthright now. Never mind the endless screaming about 'women say they want nice guys, but then they go with bad boys." Is there anyone alive who doesn't want a nice person to utterly seduce them, and what is so terribly difficult about being nice and totally seducing someone you care about as well? So much more fun than stalking people online because you believe having a male character act dumb on par with what the internet has proven is the given frequency of human stupidity is destroying your manhood. It's not nice guys and bad boys, those are stereotypes, not people. There has always been one cottage industry or other dependent on having these guys around. And it certainly doesn't help that, basically, everyone is left to learn some huge portions of relationships from random people. Can't learn it at school, and unless you were in a crazy family like mine(where puberty meant books randomly appearing in your bookshelves that were simultaneously humorous and horrifying-trauma nurse for a mother sometimes means you have seen pictures of blisters where you never really wanted to), people don't learn it at home. If a huge part of people's gripes is 'can't make a SO happy', I'm gonna lean towards a lack of education on that topic over some image in the media made them feel weak, and so, due to not being 'strong', no love.

As for large henchmen groups, or combats that involve a lot of riff raff, I would probably simply go with the speed chart for such people.

Actually, this just occurred to me. Someone may have said it before. But, if you use cards, and discard every turn, you WILL get exactly your speed rating in phases every turn.

I think one thing brought up, that in the heat of a group combat, the speed chart AS IS tends to feel random enough, where people get certain set actions, but predicting whether a haymaker will be completed is sometimes impossible, is a totally fair statement. But the closer one gets to one on one fights, this utterly breaks down. By the end of the first six phases, everyone's speed rating is obvious, and the tactics are often then based around the table, not around the feel. Tactics presume risk, knowing exactly how the speed chart works, in some combats, rewards gaming the system at the cost of creating a dynamic combat where the risks involved make success that much more meaningful. I would not argue that randomizing is simpler. BUT, if done with cards, for instance, everyone is getting what they paid for(you are not paying for specific phases, you are paying for six phases a turn, and, statistically, you WILL average out to this) and no one has the ability to game the system, everything has a higher level of risk, and the play, AS LONG AS the loss of simplicity does not dog things down too much, can have a higher level of dynamism, at least as far as the narrative. I'm not particularly in favor for making the speed the same for everyone, unless there is a story reason for it. But, if one does, then it is a round by round system, and DEX is not replacing speed, since it has no bearing on who has attacks, but merely deciding the order of attack. But, since most round by round RPGs(as opposed to wargames and unit tactics based games like Mordheim) randomize order with the more dexterous characters going first, which allows the lower DEX people to sometimes luck out, while still giving the higher DEX characters the advantage most of the time. I think where I disagree with some of what's being said is in the idea that uncertainty negates tactics. Sometimes, it does. In reality. Sometimes, having their first plan fail, players end up improvising a winning solution. I think there is room for this. To be clear, I am not saying other people need to do this; if someone wants to use the speed chart as is, they should. I'm just explaining my view.

Ooh, smart! I'll have to get me some.

Oh, definitely. I've just had a couple players, in the past, whose bad luck streak in rolling went well past how many hero points could reasonably be given out. It's the worst when someone has a character whose whole existence is marked by the most atrocious rolls.

Thanks! In fairness, reading the forum here has definitely informed my understanding of the system and some of the pitfalls that can arise. In gameplay, I could totally see there being a circumstance where I allowed it, more out of "yeah, this would be kind of the perfect dramatic moment for this, and this poor player has rolled terribly today, I'm giving the guy a break." I hate when a good player has a streak of games where all their good ideas fail solely due to a horrible streak of bad luck.

Yeah, I should make clear that I like the combat system, I just like the randomization of phases, as long as its reflective of points spent, because I feel it could add a dynamic flavor and a further element of risk.

Gloqkngronspreegendresdle

Are we facebook friends?

As a guy trained by pro fighters, I would like to say that 'looking for an opening' against anyone worth their salt never means being guaranteed that opening, but willing to risk it when odds are in one's favor. The static speed chart reflects this less than one with randomization based on speed and Dex in some way, which, of course, must seek to make the odds of action appropriately reflective of the Speed and Dex, and so the skew of some of the methods brought up must be mitigated. Generally, the opening that one is guaranteed to be able to exploit comes against an inferior opponent(or who has some aspect of their fighting which is outclassed by their opponent, even if other aspects are superior) or one who is fatigued or dazed. Tactics exist alongside chance. Set phases, which are fine if one is okay with this, do not reflect this well, because even great fighters sometimes fail to act at an opening. Not miss, but fail to act. I favor the every phase approach, and, after reading this thread, definitely favor using cards, 1-12, to do it in order to get rid of the skewing factor of dice. And I would definitely keep the combat starting in phase 12, as that reflects the flurry of the combat's opening well, and favors no one, but would put a strong emphasis on choosing how one opens well. As for lower speed characters, it is not skew that they have less attacks, it is what they paid for. Those points not spent must have gone somewhere, and they must have considered their options when faced with a faster opponent. Some characters are not meant to be good against higher speed characters. They may have teammates whose job that is.

I think a better example. If we accept disarm as a defensive action(in short, taking away the points of the focus to prevent the attack without it being a held or triggered action), then logically, a drain against someone trying to energy blast you is also a defensive action, since it is essentially the same thing in terms of how it affects the other person. Except it's weaker, because the drain will go away on its own, but the disarmed person absolutely will not get the points of their focus back except by physically being reunited with it. So there would be NO fair argument for not allowing the drain as a defensive action, if one allows disarm as one.