Bolon

Re: DEA and local police It reads clear. You are assuming that Mongrel is known in his other identity. Armondo was released by a governor's pardon as a method to get the minority vote. Mongrel is an identity yet to be cracked. The Pack is known on the streets but not the power as Mongrel has been waging a war on drug dealers. In this case, he is in the same boat as the vigilantes and they are unknown. I don't think they are aware of Mongrel working with the Pack from the jails. I would also assume that Armondo was questioned about his connection with Duffene but was able to keep his new life secret as Mongrel. Sgt. Duffene was discharged from the military so did his crimes as a civilian or was tried in civilian courts. If he was still in the military, he wouldn't have been discharged and be in a military prison but it seems the crimes were handled in civilian courts since after the discharge or after release from the military. You are probably looking at a supermax prison for all of them. None are in for minor crimes. The government might know of a group of vigilantes called the "Pack" or something like that. It might make the connection to the group from the prison but remember Armondo was released and is now a law abiding citizen. They would probably overlook him for even questioning. There is no link yet of Mongrel to Armondo except a prison slang term which is common for any crossbreed. The crimes are not against racists so why would they even suspect Armondo? His modus operati is different now with all the crime training. His target are also different. There is no reason to make the connection.

Re: DEA and local police As an ex-cop, you are looking at who has initial jurisdiction. If you have a character who has primary jurisdiction from Hudson City, he will be activating the HCPD SWAT team. This will be in addition to a number of uniforms to seal the area and reduce civilian targets and access. Then it all depends on the command structure and their willingness to involve other agencies. If you are running Shadows of the City, factor in the number of encounters the police have had with the suspected group. If you know there are these criminal masterminds with unconventional weaponry with numbers, it is not likely the police will try to handle this alone. I can easily see contacting the DEA, FBI, Coast Guard, US Customs and ATF. If by chance any of these agencies have an agent on this, they will send in their own forces and SWAT to scoop up the credit and jurisdiction for funding and budget benefits plus to protect their undercover agents or assets. HCPD doesn't want to shoot up other cops from other agencies. Remember this as a delay will occur that your vigilantes can use to get out if the shit hits the fan. Everyone of the Pack has hunteds and those hunted might be watching and therefore get attention of other agencies. There are a couple of hunted by police and a lot of hunted by drug lords. Roll any of those and then roll their hunteds to see who else shows up. There are also strange hunteds like Nazis and Wolf Cult which could result in military, CIA, FBI or even Secret Service getting a lead and getting involved. If you get a roll and a group will get involved, remember that might just mean they are actively looking that night and will come in when they hear the explosions, radio calls or sirens. It doesn't mean they know where things are happening and will not be there to start at all. The Pack has hunteds but they are not suicidal either. They may follow the Pack or the vigilantes away from the hot zone before they act. If following the vigilantes, you might have a kidnapping and interrogation scene where they want information if they feel they might have some. They could even come in a scoop your capture/ prisoner if they feel they can get away with it. That might be deadly especially if the characters are wounded and less capable due to their fight with the Pack. The Pack seems to run as fighting racists and being on an FBI national watch list as a group. Hate crimes are FBI territory. They don't seem to be terrorists against the States but big time bank robbers or radicals level. If they are being hunted by drug lords, the DEA might be watching them and cleaning up the leftovers. The rivalry with the drug lords would put the DEA on their scent just to help them identify drug lords and weakness in the drug trade. I don't see anything on trading weapons so ATF would be less likely. If you see their actions as crossing international borders with contraband, US Customs and Coast Guard would be watching. Based on each agency's previous encounters with them, they would have more resources available to catch them. There are few hunteds at that level so I would say they are new and flying below the big agencies' radar until now. As GM, it is your call but those are my thoughts.

Re: Is Speed underpriced? This might be unpopular but what happened to a GM who actually had some balls and set the rules. Why are people relying on the rules? If the GM doesn't want high speeds, why does he accept them? Make the call. I am actually tired of GM who cater to the players to such a level that the game goes amok and the GM's favourites rule-rape to have characters that make all others just "sidekicks". The only reason I play in some games is just to hang with friends since the game has no interest for me. If you have someone buying higher speeds, why not limit it or just add a speed to every bad guy no matter what he/she is? This will make the players realize that game balance is important when one of them throws it off? If everyone buys a high speed, you can easily make it more expensive by throwing in the villain with a speed drain. Drain one or 2 points and the speed drops instantly. It is so nasty for so little. There are combative ways to make speed expensive or there is just being assertive, stand up and state the limits. Either way, it is a game that is a shared pleasure for the GM and players. When one of them is not happy, the game just dies.

Re: Training/Workout Facilities for a Base That is a very good usage of labs as a place to have the equipment those certain skills require just to be able to get a roll. It will require the character to return to base first though.

Re: Training/Workout Facilities for a Base The true point is that it is a game and needs to stay as a game and fun. The spirit of the game is that wealth, money and all the extras are not suppose to weigh the game fun down unless you choose high realism with superheroes (?????) so don't let it. GM can change the rules but this is co-operative storytelling and adults enjoying fun and time together. There is a point when it becomes more than a game and becomes no fun at all.

Re: Training/Workout Facilities for a Base Our group uses simple rules that there must be a reasonable time for the character to learn the new skill. Therefore players preplan and spend downtime working on skills they plan to buy. That working on skills requires them to actually do things but it can take them out of the action or can place them into a situation to advance the gameplay. ie. A character is taking a class in forensics at the local university and meets the villain or creates a love interest who will later be threatened versus the character who takes an online course and never interacts with anyone. If it results in only taking them out of the action, the GM is wasting time and most players want to play and not just do paperwork. We got into a game of Harn where the party ran the equivalent of a strip mall but stopped the game as the party ended up just doing paperwork and not adventuring. Gaming is for the fun and adventure. If it adds to the game, do it. If it ruins the fun, you should skip it.

Re: Training/Workout Facilities for a Base Originally posted by Ninja Bear "if your shooting indoors, you should buy up the walls DEF though." I wouldn't need to buy up DEF if my indoor range is in my underground base and I am shooting into rock. It is a safety aspect in the real world. I might actually place a false wall before the rock wall to catch the bullets rather than allow richoche? (spelling). This is a design aspect. Why would I buy DEF if there is no game effect? I have seen people who equate practise regularly to maintaining a skill or being extra ready to use it. Isn't that why your heroes are constantly patrolling and engaging in adventures suppose to do? A real SRU team is constantly training but that keeps them familiar and ready. Giving someone a bonus for having a gym is an insurance company thing and only translates if there is a driving force to do it. In gaming, saying "my character works out" is lame at best. The idea of a character working out all the time means that the character also needs to have another source of investigation and interaction into society or you have this character working out until he feels the large explosions, earthquake or get wet from the flood, too late to save anyone including himself. It is cool to have the characters interacting and growing with roleplaying and training times for new skills but it is a game. If your hero team is a rapid response unit, you can train all the time and just wait to hear the bells ring but it is more fun to have the characters roleplay and find the adventures. Don't overthink things.

Re: Training/Workout Facilities for a Base The first question to ask would be: will this danger room have game effects? If it is just a training area and an excuse to improve the characters, then points should be minimized by the GM or given free. If it will affect game play, then you do need to spend on them. Would you need to spend points for the player to get a gym membership or take a class in a university. If no, it shouldn't cost if in a base but a GM might want to define it with purchase of a skill as a lab if it can be used to improve your rolls. Labs are designed as complimentary rolls to character skills and not as training areas so I don't see them as needing to be paid for, personally or IMHO. If you plan to have a playing session focused on the Danger Room being taken over, it is the GM who would want details to build it but should consider it a follower or a villain and players don't play for their villains. Characters should be involved if they built it but I would only calculate point values for space of base and for usage when battling it. If they want to make teamwork rolls with the room, it should have the skill. If they want make a skill roll WITH the room, it should be bought as a lab with a skill to use as complimentary. Would I have to buy the old sandpit that I target shoot in as a lab for firearms? Would I need to buy my shower as a lab for personal hygiene? Would I have to buy my phone as a lab for communication? Would I need to buy my bedroom as a lab for resting and relaxing? I would have to buy the size in the base. I might buy furniture but unless I was going to add gadgets and special defenses to them, it wouldn't cost me points.

Re: Honorable gangsters? With honourable gangsters, you might want to make them mafia and your bad guys be terrorists or the meaner Columbian or other brutal gangs. The Italian, Irish and other original mafia from the 1920's have strong codes and have protected neighbourhoods and cities from other groups. These mafias were known during WWII to actually prevent espionage by foreign nationals due to their strong love of their host nation. This might be another way to go with these anti-heroes. I don't know how it might fly. There is also the idea that they might actually protect those who they get protection money from or whom they work as a second justice system for. Remember the scene where the merchant goes to the mafia boss for a favour or justice because someone has wronged his family or honour. The local bosses were almost magistrates but in a crueler fashion.

Re: Tricky Garrote Maneuver? Game wise, I think the mechanics are sound. As a single chance to be out before that extra segment and damage with strength versus STR or even an acrobatics / escape roll, works for me. I do think that the attacker would then be required to hold it until it resolves. People do survive garroting due to the carotid artery reflex and it is removed early but not without scarring. If you are running high realism, you might want to add a choke aspect with an NND to simulate this. The defense would be hard neck armour. This should only be stun and therefore would take a subject out quicker. It would leave a scar. I think you might want to discuss that with your GM. Linking them on a successful skill roll or triggering it would simulate this but how far do you want to go?

Re: Tricky Garrote Maneuver? If you can't see my points, try this. A blocked garrote attack does the damage to the hand and not the throat, much lower damage. You always see a garrote attack coming since you need to swing the garrote through the field of vision of anyone but the unconscious and blind. A garrote attack is cutting off the airway. A person can survive a while without air so it is not instant. With a block, you are also not getting the caroroid? nerve and the effect it has. When against a guard or sentry as in diagram, you should expect a degree of awareness versus used against an assassination target who is unaware of any danger. The standard way a garrote is used, includes a second person to ensure that nobody else gets involved since the attacker is fully committed to his attack for the duration of the struggle. The length of the struggle can vary based on health, defenses and the counter. If the counter used prevents the damage, it becomes a choking scene which can last a long time. My point is that it is impractical and there are many ways for it to screw up. My answer to your questions is that it is impractical and a high risk maneuver compared to other attacks. There was a comment on why so many views and only 3 comments. In my case, I saw how impractical this was from real experience and knowledge so I didn't respond until goated. I am sorry but your picture shows a rifle barrel that could be used to block. I am pointing out the disadvantages and restrictions that make other attacks preferable. Knives are issued and trained with for special forces. Garrotes are more difficult to use effectively and therefore are not standard issue. What will happen in the few moments that someone is being killed? It can be a lot and can even result in major complications for the attacker, if not the attacker's death. I would prefer the silenced shot to the head from a thousand meters but you still have the body falling down and making noise. Nothing is perfect and nothing is without complications, disadvantages and restrictions. Media has the garrote as an assassin's weapon and requiring a high degree of stealth. Game stats place it at a -12 for a suspecting target in combat plus his DCV. If you get surprise, that would be a great and only be a -7 versus a 0 DCV. Realistically, how often do you get a party to all get surprise and make a stealth roll? If you don't get surprise, you have both hands committed to the close range weapon and your opponent has no restrictions. I don't see it as a good weapon to rely on but I do see it as weapon.

Re: Tricky Garrote Maneuver? Looking at your technique diagram, the one hand grab chin, knee in back or behind knee to break down opponent and cut throat with other would be more effective. That is the standard commando technique. Why would you want to be without options? Garrote is a bad guy spy weapon and needs a lot of stealth and opportunity to be effective. I don't want to "rain on your parade" but it is rather ineffective without the perfect opportunity and perfect execution. Gamewise, it would be easier to give complimentary for stealth, situation and other factors to an attack to counter the massive minus for a called shot to the throat. It would end up in the end to just be a decision by your GM anyways.

Re: Tricky Garrote Maneuver? My problem is that it should have an element of entangle. The initial grab is straight forward but the damage comes from being able to maintain it over time. If you make it one combat move doing all its damage and is over, that will negate every fight scene in every movie where someone has battled out of a garrote. How about the throat block as a defense for any choking attack? That is the single or double hands put up as armour and therefore negating the ability of the hold to apply force to the throat and cut off the air supply. For the same matter, how about hard neck armour like the piece every Canadian hockey player wears for games in the minor divisions now for protection from skate blades? The maneuver is a grab with a crushing aspect afterwards. You need to hold on and the victim needs to get you off. There should be additional DCV for the attacker versus the victim for being more successful application. If the attacker is on the back, the victim is at a higher disadvantage to counter and get released versus a side or front. The attacker is relying on this DCV to maintain the hold. Even in the example where the attacker bends the victim over their back, it does take time for the attack to be effective and end the life. There needs to be some kind of strength roll at disadvantage based on how well it is applied. Then more strength damage is applied plus the garrote damage. Piano wire cuts more than rope, etc. How about a degree of panic? If you have no training as a victim, you would be easy target as you wouldn't know how to break it. How about the special forces guy who has a hand block, draws his knife and cuts it or kills his attacker instead? How about the gymnastics roll or acrobatics to flip out or flip to the front and therefore take away all advantage beyond strength? How about forcing the attacker into walls or sharp objects for concussion damage? Finally, what if the victim was aware, placed a knife blade up as a block, cut the garrote and the attacker is standing there turning his back to the victim, with just 2 rings and broke garrote as a weapon? Wouldn't the victim now have a massive advantage to use that blade on an unarmed, unprepared target? That is why special forces have a knife mounted on their webbing in that position almost. A grab with knife attack to the throat is quicker and more effective. I am an ex-cop and ex-soldier and know instantly to hand block and drop my weight countering that move drastically and simply. There is no question I would risk cutting up my hand over my throat and had been trained to do that daily in my hand to hand training with the hand block for the chokes too. I would then take out the legs of my attacker to force it to the ground via knife to hamstrings. It would then be roll over and put the knife in the belly to the heart, killing the attacker and any strength or cutting the tendons and muscles of the attacker's arms to disable the attack. Finally I would cut the garrote, sit up on the attacker and just finish the attack. Less experienced person might break the kneecap or cut open the thigh muscle. Ideally, going into the groin to counter would disable the opponent fast and possibly expose a kill shot of an artery. I could do this with or without a blade. I am sorry but I would as a GM prefer a bit less realism and a bit more flow. Giving it a finality that it wouldn't necessarily have, makes it rather deadly especially when you consider the rule that whatever the players can use on the NPCs can be used against the players. As a GM, I would make a call on henchmen to finish them not based on damage but on set-up and opportunity versus damage. If the target is unprepared and the attack is flawless, then it might be a simple task. If not, an alarm might be raised or the attacker might be taking damage. Flawless is a superior stealth role on a careless victim who is on guard duty without a partner and the attacker hasn't had to move more than 5 ft to get to his target from cover. Remember the attacker needs both hands on the garrote and therefore isn't able to knock defenses out of the way or even do something else as a distraction to over his real intent.

Re: Master of Crime Check out "Person of Interest". The "super computer" is a program that uses a large defense computer to analyze surveillance video, street camera video, cell phone taps, open communication or public communication of any kind looking for defense threats as part of homeland security. The inventor put in a secondary program that puts out street level crime information. In the series, it is limited by giving the Social Security number of someone involved and the characters need to figure out if they are victim or villain. The idea would be Master of Crime would use the information to build his database and connections to create his "kingpin empire" first as an ally and then take over as he plays parts against others to maintain control. My scenario is looking at his arrival on the scene and involvement as a major player as he develops his power and contacts. He would be available and connected to all major villains and give them their tailored or signature assistance. It would become known that these villain didn't develop the henchmen talent but a third party. The computer program would become available to give clues to a party member and help in the destruction of Master of Crime's power over the computer program.

Re: Recorded Paranormal Abilities - Dark Champion Powers Those are imaginary. I am thinking of maybe getting a list of those abilities that have been found as real. It is the same power level but I saw a guy who ran in snow, one with electricity running through them, human calculator, contortionists, lack of fear, phenomenal strength for size. Alphas are created but do fit in the idea. I was looking for real or recorded examples of extreme abilities beyond normal.

Re: Master of Crime I am thinking of creating a scenario with him as the big bad and the villains from Predators as the rogue gallery of weekly battles until it is figured out that they are connected through a kingpin. Did something like that before but the players were not getting the fact that the "flunkies" didn't know the major villain and were hired by someone else. Part of Master of Crime is his crime school and thought he might supply henchmen sort as an apprenticeship program, LOL WEG. The Master of Crime would have actually been involved in the super computer and surveillance program and used it to milk the data to gain his position. One of the characters has connections to the dead programmer and make it a vendetta situation. Any ideas?

Stan Lee and Marvel had that series about people with unusual abilities beyond human norms. William Shatner suggests such things in his new series as well. I see these abilities as Dark Champions special abilities or powers. There is part of the brain that slows your body down and with a sense of purpose has allowed people to survive by sheer willpower. I am wondering if others have found such examples.

Re: Master of Crime Thought he might be interesting to use as the villain behind a sort of "Person of Interest" scenario. Thanks. Does anyone know if he has been moved forward as part of 5th or 6th Ed? Is he still valid as a DC villain?

I remember a villain called the Master of Crime. I am looking for him but unable to find him. Was he stopped in 6th Ed? Where is he from? Did he morph into the head of the Card Sharks? I sort of remember him from 4th Ed but haven't found him. Any help anyone?

Re: Conduct Codes I agree. They should come from a thought of how the character would act and not be thought of as making the character more difficult to run. The complications should be as the character would act. I do see some who see it as something to screw the character with. The codes of conduct would be as a samurai, cop, soldier or whatever would be to help define the "role". I have the EGO roll so the player knows that they are doing something against their design and once the roll is made, they are accepting the consequences. It might be a throwback to my role versus roll playing philosophy. We have a rule of not rolling the dice unless you are asked to roll to promote playing it out in role. It is like talking it out before you start shooting except we talk it out before we throw dice. The call for a dice roll makes the player think on how they might avoid it or improve it. It opens it up for discussion, complementary rolls, tactics and anything to make it clear before the bones hit the table. It is a way my groups and friends have dealt with this.

Re: disad book or HD pack Where?

Re: Conduct Codes I like the counselling idea to remove it but I also like the idea that anything the character does that would bring in the complication, they need to think twice, take a penalty, become unsure or just take on some other complication until it is considered resolved. That would include nightmares, overconfidence in combat as a death wish or punishment, lack of self preservation, whatever you can think is appropriate. Give the player that to roleplay for his bonus points and see what happens. You can always give him a reputation as a stone cold killer and all the associated complications like hunted by cops and outrage people. The GM might want to take it under consideration from the other players but it is your game and you need to keep a degree of balance. Fully telepathic thought police who make your life hell might be too much but there are more reasonable ways. After all, you describe what the character sees and hears. Too bad it might not be what the party sees and hears, WEG. Think game appropriate and secret notes. It could be really fun to work through something and could even be a plot hook. What about a hero who is being haunted by someone that they only can see and hear but is really the key to the next scenario. It would be so much fun to have a clairvoyant power that is uncontrolled that is activated via the complication. You need to right the wrong to give over this. If you fail, you need to right more to remove the curse or complication you have earned (swapped in) by failing to play your complication right. There are so many fun ways to take the story and resolve the issue. Be creative.

Re: disad book or HD pack I also thought of such an idea but it could include a bunch of villain who are fear based. I saw a wonderful episode of "Faceoff" the makeup series that included phobias and characters based on them. I would also like to see codes of conduct, and other things handled in more detail. I think that a simple players handbook would be nice instead of a full blown Ultimate book. I would also like to see some articles on psychological play or gaming to play the dark side of things with serial killers, profiling and investigating.

Re: Do you use Teamwork? This conversation seems to be about how to penalize the players for good tactics aka teamwork. IMHO it promotes a GM versus players mentality. Do your players have a reason for buying teamwork from the start or have you ruled that teamwork is a developed skill with XP? They decide to buy it and use it. Then your criminals or villains need to look at why they would buy teamwork. Are they organized enough to work as a team or are they a bunch of solos? Would they think it is a good tactic or would it be better for them to just get more henchmen or better plans? A bunch of solo villain together for a single job or crime wouldn't but a tightly grouped team of villains might. Bikers might not but an elite special forces section might. Are you buying it to make a better fight or are you buying it as part of storytelling and big better adventures? Maybe you have the villain buy it as they are a group that are very slick and precise that the heroes are not in their league without teamwork. Maybe they are greed and wouldn't spend for the training but prefer to just get more men. If it is about the story and the adventure, you will ensure the tale is well told versus the battle is long and drawn out. It sounds like maybe your gaming comes for a different place. Where do you want it to come from?

Re: Strange Background Complications If enrage or beserk is too severe, modify it to something that mechanically works the same but has a different effect, that is the point. Then work within that framework to decide rather than re-invent the wheel. THat is the point.