Toadmaster

Surprisingly there is not really that much out there on BP ballistics. I have a couple of out of print books which I have used, but they give estimates (ratio of powder to bullet weight should give this velocity). Depending on what period you are looking for I might be able to help from what I've got (civil war through 1900), I did find these two sites, poking about the links may help you. http://www.emf-company.com/default.htm http://pages.sssnet.com/go2erie/muzzle.htm

Well since nobody else has done one and I know many are waiting to hear opinions of TUV I thought I'd toss out mine. It's great, it is about as opposite of GURPS vehicles as you can get, it is based around finding the effects you want the vehicle to have and then helps write them up in HERO terms. As a plus for those who really wanted a GURPS vehicles for HERO I see no reason you couldn't build a vehicle with a crunchy system like GURPS vehicles or BTRC's VDS and then convert it to HERO. The book is divided into 9 chapters Chapter one deals with rules that apply to all vehicles, the effect of various characteristics including PRE and COM, built in skills, talents, powers etc. Chap 2 deals with ground vehilces and has write ups for common forms of power and propulsion, and special rules for ground vehicles, it also includes several sample ground vehicles. Chapter 3-6 follow Chap 2's format but Chap 3 is water vehicles Chap 4 is aircraft Chap 5 is space vehicles and chap 6 is Mecha Chap 7 is vehicle equipment including special rules, weapons, defenses, movement, perssel, power, sensors/communications and misc equipment. Lots of examples and ideas fr handling these topics. Chap 8 is vehicle combat and adventuring which covers about 50 pages. Chap 9 is vehicles as characters. I bought it Saturday and skimmed through it quickly, I have now made it about 1/4 of the way through with a more careful read and am very happy so far. Lots of examples of how to use the system to build various vehicle systems from headlights to antimatter reactors. I have not made it through vehicle combat yet but it looks to be a big improvement over the system in Fred. There are also some guidelines on using real world stats to build a vehicle in HERO terms. Overall I felt it was worth the money and I already have lots of plans for it. If you have StarHero or the Beastiary I would compare TUV with them in quality.

There wouldn't be anything illeagal about it in the US but I think it probably violates a few laws of nature As far as ammo, I think most people reload their own for .50 cal Browning. The ammo for the machineguns is not loaded to extreme tolerances since it is to be used in a machinegun. For target work a higher quality of ammo is desirable. You can easily buy the components through mail order gun supply shops. Its not cheap and few reloading presses can handle a round that size which is an extra cost since you need to buy a large press for it. Also I think the Barrett is up to $6,000 or so, it was $3,000 in the eighties before the rash of gun grabber policies under the Clinton administration.

The old Beastiary was hardly worth the money, the 5th beastiary is a great resource and I'd say is mandatory if you have any plans on using creatures normal or fantastic. UMA is very well done, but I never had the old one so I can't compare. I have the old Ninja HERO and the new one has much more material, I'm not a huge fan of the genre but I like what I've seen of the 5th NH so far. StarHero is awesome, if the 5th Fantasy HERO compares it will make the old FH seem like trash and I thought the old FH was very well done. I have just bought the Ultimate Vehicle and from what I've seen I am very happy. Something else I've noticed is that when DOJ puts out a 5th Edition product it is not only very well done, it is all new material, not just an edited version of the 4th ed stuff, this is nice becasue it is all new and because it does not make the 4th ed stuff completely obsolete.

Probably because HERO is not primarily a superhero game anymore. Sure Champions claims the lions share of fans but I don't use it for supers at all, I primarily play post-apacalyse, modern, fantasy and sci-fi. Yes you can do "Gun, 1 ea", but some of us like a little more detail and despite comments to the contrary HERO does just fine with a fairly fine amount of detail. Besides I think some of us just like an excuse to talk about guns. Gewing I haven't seen any info on the 6.8mm SOCOM if I do, I'll let you know.

Ran across this site today, looks like it might be what you are looking for, it includes several methods of "measuring" cartridge effectiveness and the pros and cons of using them. Be warned it is mostly showing the problems of many including the TKO but it explains why and offers some solutions. http://www.mindspring.com/~ulfhere/ballistics/wounding.html Hope you find it useful.

The SSK site showed 325 gr bullet at 2000 fps, which works out as 2886 ft/lbs, the S&W site shows 2600 ft/lbs but considering the loss of 1.5" of barrel compared to the T/C pistol that would explain the loss in energy. Either way it is far more powerful than the .44 Mag which has about 1200 ft/lbs or the .50 AE at around 1400 ft/lbs. Gewing do you have any other sources for this cartridge, so far I have seen the SSK site with a 325 Grain bullet and CorBon with 275, 400 and 440 grain bullets. BTW here is a link to the S&W site with a shot of the revolver for anyone interested. http://www.smith-wesson.com/products/firearms/m500.htm

While I would gladly get into a debate on just about any gun topic, I will refrain, I was just trying to point out there is little agreement among real world gun nuts so there is little likelyhood of finding it among make believe gun nuts. I was very into the idea of using momentium based formulas for gaming at one point but found I had more issues with them compared to energy based ones (pistols tended to be more efficient than rifles), that doesn't mean the momentium ones are wrong, its just they don't fit my view of "reality". HERO actually works better for guns than many games since it has stun, I equate damage to penetration and stun for mass (or knockdown power) which seems to keep me happy. Understanding ballistics is the best book I've found to understand how bullets work, and I have enough gun books to choke an Arracian sand worm. It has lots of examples, covers a number of popular "effectiveness" formulas used over the years and talks about some of the statistical studies that have been done such as the one the FBI used to pick the 10mm. If you have any complaints it will be that there is too much information, but it is divided up into handy chapters so it is easy to take what you like and ignore the rest. Guns, Guns, Guns is a really good resource, like I said my only complaint was it favors small caliber bullets because I don't think they considered that a bigger hole in a living object should be factored in. If it had factored in Stun (it doesn't do anything with Stun) It probably would have satisfied me. More guns ( a sequel) has quite a bit more about building weapons in HERO and is also worth checking out. TKO is a reasonable formula to use, in fact any formula is better than just tossing out stats with no rhyme or reason.

Ok, first of all I find many see .50 cal and start thinking of the M2HB .50 machinegun. If you look at the picture at the bottom of the page of the link you will see that the bullet alone from the machinegun is larger than the entire .500 S&W cartridge. The .500 S&W is listed as a 325 grain bullet at 2000fps, this computes as 2886 Ft/lbs of muzzle energy. This compares to the power of a .30-06 rifle or several of the large magnum handguns like the .454 Casull. It is much more powerful than the .44 magnum which has about 1200 ft/lbs of energy. The .50 cal M2HB machinegun on the other hand has in the neighborhood of 13,000 ft/lbs. Off the top of my head I'd say 2d6+1 with a +2 stun mod sounds about right (a 325 grain bullet is heavy, almost 50% heavier than the bullet of the .44 magnum) Strmin 14 or 15 seems fair, there currently is no method more scientific than taking a SWAG at this time. It is probably a very heavy revolver so could be fired one handed but I wouldn't try it, 1 1/2 handed does not seem unreasonable. As to other .50's The Desert Eagle .50AE is probably the most available since it is regular production. Not a .50 but the .454 Casull revolver is in the same power range and is also a production weapon. The rest are semi-custom and would be more difficult to get. .500 Linebaugh and .475 Linebaugh (the .475 is actually the more powerful of the two) Century's "The mother load" in .50-70 is probably the most powerful of the .50's (about 3000 ft/lbs) although I heard they were working on an even larger revolver in .50-110. The .50-70 version has a 10" barrel and weighs 6 lbs, I've seen a picture of this revolver being fired and lets just say it look odd and completely out of proportion to the shooter. Thanks for the link, I hadn't heard of the .500 S&W yet, seems like there is a new cartridge coming out each month lately.

Re: Just asking for a few references... I've used Guns, guns, guns, overall I like it but one thing I found is the formula is based on penetration, works great for non-living things as the formula assumes a smaller caliber of equal power will penetrate better, but as far as living targets however it takes no consideration of the fact that a larger hole in a living body will cause more damage than a smaller hole. As far as books there is a very good book called Understanding Ballistics, it assumes a low knowledge base but gets into lots of detail on accuracy, range, terminal effects etc. Here is a link to a review http://www.realguns.com/books/review8.htm I have found it quite useful for gun rules in RPG's, it gets into alot of the whys and has a number of formulas for finding energy, momentium and some theoretical formulas for estimating effectiveness.

I use muzzle energy myself and have found I get results very close to those in the earlier published HERO products. IIRC my table goes something like this 109J > DC1 110-219 DC2 220-439 DC3 etc Momentium is also an option as mentioned above, I don't like it as much as ME because I find it favors pistols compared to rifles. Momentium favors heavy bullets, which in turn favors pistols over rifles as pistols tend to have heavier bullets. However this is argued with real guns as well so it is a matter of finding which formula gives you the results you prefer.

I like the idea of including the basics for a number of magic systems instead of just one, I do agree that sometime needs to be spent explaining how to make magic feel like magic and not just a power. Also how to make wizards feel differant from priests and psionic differant from both. Specifically I would like to see examples of A "D&D" clone magic system (spellbook, limited number of spells per day etc) same goes for the diety based "d&d" magic as many are going to be using d20 as a starting point, make sure to include a "magic missile" clone as that seems to be asked every couple of months. A Runequests style "rune" based magic for a very differant style. A "mana" based system such as GURPS (endurance battery?) Magic with required prequisites (you need this to even have the potential to use magic or to cast a specific spell) and finally a sort of silly or wild magic system such as the spell singer series, you have an idea of what will happen but no idea of exactly how it will occur. Caster shouts "Die" and points a finger and a flock of geese appears flying into the target knocking him off balance resulting in a fall from the cliff or sings the Who's "bucket T" and summons a riding snail. Some discussion of weapon design, not neccessarily a list of weapons but more a list of effects for example bashing weapons might use penetrating, sharply pointed weapons could be AP, how to include manuevers into weapons such as hooks for unhorsing riders, balanced weapons recieve +1 OCV etc. I realize this might take some historical research but if you don't connect these to specific weapons but mearly include them for ideas the research shouldn't have to be to detailed. Also cost and production considerations for differant types of weapons (swords being all metal are more difficult to make and thus cost more than a wooden club and a composite weapon such as an axe or mace are in between). Some description of historical societies, there have been a few examples on the boards, nothing super detailed but enough to allow a somewhat historical society to be built, along with this a discussion of the effects various fantasy elements might have (magic, fantastic beasts, roaming bands of goblins etc) Justice systems and the effect magic might have. The effects magic might have on society and economics, magical fire would improve the quality of metal working, magical travel could reduce the costs associated with shipping materials or would they, the benefits might be overtaken by monopolies of mages guilds. Etc These last three could fill books but even a few pages of these kinds of considerations would be really useful for developing believable societies. Thats all I can think of for now.

Re: Modern & "Realistic" DI was my favorite, ok maybe a tie with Justice Inc but I count "modern realistic" games as my favorite, followed closely by fantasy. I've noticed the same thing "modern realistic" to many equals why play a game go to work theres your realistic game. I used DI, JI and 4th Ed. to play Morrow Project, Aftermath, twilight 2000 (I kinda like Post Apacalypse games), a short merc campaign, a counter terrorist campaign, a couple of espionage games, Call of Cthulhu, Stalking the night fantastic (horror) and a brief multi-dimensional game. I've been working on some WW2 material and was hoping to run a one shot Normandy game at the Dundracon (a starter for a campaign) but haven't progressed far enough yet to do it this year. HERO works quite well for "modern realistic", I also used the Armory which offered many extra nasty weapons, never had that much trouble with killing players, and I used most of the optional rules, HERO characters are pretty tough, sure one dies here and there but for the most part I didn't find HERO to deadly for modern games, GURPS was much worse for death tolls. Personnally I find HERO works very well for these games. Its not just these boards, i've found many gamers have a snobbery against these types of games as unworthy of being RPG's and many on these boards will argue that HERO is terrible for them, don't believe it.

This is the closest I've seen to an APHE round as used in cannon. These are AP shells with a small explosive charge so that when the armor is penetrated instead of just having a large shell pass through the tank there is an effect of a small explosion to hopefully (from the shooters perspective) incapacitate the crew which otherwise might get off pretty easy. So an AP attack with extra damage linked seems to fit the best to me although it may not be the easiest way to build it.

The thing I kept thinking was, if you are going to slam a game, it might be a good idea to know what you are talking about, and if the post was typical of the poster (which from some of the replies I get the feeling they are) it seems like they just might read the rules just to find holes, of course doing so would prove fruitless and they might just find they liked the game, then where would they direct all that negativity. Something else I found odd were the number of people who chimed in agreeing with the pointlessness of Comeliness, I don't see how the GURPS solution of really ugly, kinda ugly, average, good looking and WOW is any better than HEROs stat which provides basically the same thing without the complexity, its just a stat instead of an advantage. I don't have a problem with the way GURPS handled it either but I don't see a problem with the way HERO did it.