Strike Force (original) Translating Powers to Current HERO

[Cloppy Clip]

On 6/4/2023 at 9:45 PM, Hugh Neilson said:

The issues with Transfer started in prior editions.  A Transfer is a Drain with a linked Aid, self only, costs END.  When we started getting rulings like the Drain part would fail if the Aid part was maxed out, or the Drain had to be divided among the targets within an AoE rather than affecting them all, or needing to buy delayed recovery or expanded effect twice if you wanted it to affect both parts...well, let's just say my thinking was not complimentary.

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but why would you need to buy those modifiers twice if treating Transfer as one power? Delayed Recovery (+1) on Drain 1d6 and Aid 1d6 gives you 20 + 12 = 32 Active Points, the same as if you applied the modifier to a combined Transfer that cost 16 points for 1d6. The same applies to Expanded Effect, and other modifiers. Was the intention for you to be able to buy different levels, or was it just a way of making the power more expensive?

[Hugh Neilson]

Whatever you're missing is also what I was missing, as I found the "buy it once for each element" model problematic at best.  The philosophy behind that ruling was unfathomable to me.

 

Under "transfer as a single power", I would go with the complex Advantage of Delayed Recovery (+1) (say, on 30 AP, so a cost of 30) Limited to only delay the Aid Recovery (for this example), so call that a -1 limitation on the Advantage.  Cost 30 + [30/2 =] 15 for a 45 point power.   But that assumes the Aid and Drain components have equal value.

[Christopher R Taylor]

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Whatever you're missing is also what I was missing, as I found the "buy it once for each element" model problematic at best.  The philosophy behind that ruling was unfathomable to me.

 

I get what they were thinking: "what if you want a different fade rate on your drain than on your aid?" but to me  there could be other ways of handling it, such as an average of the two rates (1 hour and 5 minutes = 20 minutes average for the advantage cost, round up).  I just do not like breaking up stuff like Transfer, it was such a clear, easy-to-use power as it was.  I think they should have left it as-is, then let people do the Drain/Aid shuffle if they wanted really different modifiers on each power.

[greypaladin_01]

Yeah I am pretty much in the same camp.   Yes they had their reasons, but most of those reasons felt very fringe and complication for sake of complication to me.   Now that is probably just my experience in 4e... we did not make super detailed or edge case builds at the time.

[Hugh Neilson]

I suspect that, if Hero had started with Aid and Drain and no Transfer, a Link construct would have evolved.  Issues like "oh, Aid is maxed out; Drain stops working" would be resolved, and the AoE issue would not arise as there's no point putting AoE on an Aid, Self Only, so you get everyone in the area with the Drain and you get one Aid.

 

I would, however, think that a Transfer as a "Talent" type build (the full construction behind the scenes; here's your cost per 1d6 Transfer; pick the stat it drains from the target and the stat it increases for you; it affects one target at standard range; your gains cap out like Aid and they keep losing stats even if you are already at capacity.

 

And make a second one where the power heals, rather than Aids, the character.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Hugh Neilson

[Jason Reid]

On 6/4/2023 at 3:45 PM, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

You left out the part where in order to use this, you have to actually violate the Transform rule into which it was unnecessarily shoved:

 

Transform cannot be used on self.

 

 

I'm pretty sure the rework of IC specifically targets the character's clothing, not the character itself.

[Duke Bushido]

So you can no longer instant change to werewolf form?

[Christopher R Taylor]

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So you can no longer instant change to werewolf form?

 

Usually done with multiform, or shapeshift.

[Ninja-Bear]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:45 AM, greypaladin_01 said:

 

Very much the case.  Each edition seems to change costing on various things, I am sure as an attempt at balance, but then also tends to give big increases to the Character Points provided to characters... so I'm not sure if there really is a net change in the end.

I’ve just caught Powers themselves have changed too. I just updated Brick from (I think 1st because he’s on the pamphlet of Viper’s Nest) to 4th and things like DI and Growth have extra benefits that 4th doesn’t provide. Growth adds to running for free. Also DI adds to Con although the extra STR from DI doesn’t add to leap. 

[Hugh Neilson]

7 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I’ve just caught Powers themselves have changed too. I just updated Brick from (I think 1st because he’s on the pamphlet of Viper’s Nest) to 4th and things like DI and Growth have extra benefits that 4th doesn’t provide. Growth adds to running for free. Also DI adds to Con although the extra STR from DI doesn’t add to leap. 

 

4th curtailed the benefits of growth and DI - as I recall, DI was 10 points per level pre-4e.