Mindblade

[unclevlad]

13 minutes ago, dmjalund said:

Not Persistent? does this means it disappears when he goes unconscious?

 

Yep.

3 hours ago, GDShore said:

Okay, I haven't done D&D since late '79. But "Hero's" is not D&D" . I do not copy D&D I try to create NEW. I do not use D&D monsters or concepts. When we left D&D we turned to E.P.T. and C&S, (until FH arrived) I still occasionally do C&S.  I don't use psionics just never did. Thus if I were to create such one of the things I would consider is, persistence. If not persistent then it would not look like the real thing. The question on armor was, if weapon - also armor. [extrapolating further] Maybe D&D does'nt  use material components, Hero's magic for the most part does. If not persistent, then it is energy, energy that has to be maintained or else it dissipates. All of that is world building. Whenever you intrduce a new concept or item to a game it affects it's world build. {you have a campaign set in a medieval world, with a feudal society, the introduction of an AK47 will have serious consequence} It needs to fit whatever ruleset you have determined for your world build. 

 

No, but the power he's basing it on, IS from D&D.

If Fantasy Hero bothers with material components, it's likely because D&D used them...most of the time.  Even then:  does FH *always* require components for *every* effect?  This is psionic, not magical.  

 

The choice to require material components here or not...whether the power extends to forming armor or not...does not imply that it holds anywhere else.  So, no, it doesn't affect world building materially.

[GDShore]

Maybe so, but this is FH, take the concept and build it "Hero style" not a copy, it can be better than the origional.

[Duke Bushido]

I don't know of it helps,  but I have a fantasy campaign (on and off) in which many barbarian tribes use a type of magic referred to as "body magic."  One of the spells is Blood Sword" (or Blood Axe or Blood Spear).  Essentially it is HKA, physical manifestation, and requires a cutting arm wound dekivered by an opponent (all things to make it difficult to use, get the price down, and prevent someone from being unarmed while not relying on it as a primary weapon)  with the side effect that it costs 1 Body to,activate and reduces REC by 1 while it is active. 

 

Again- don't know if it helps, but the shoet version is the build doesnt have to be any more complicated than you want it to be.

 

 

[GDShore]

FH third ed. had magic Items, scar sword - IIRC - you had to rub and invoke the spell and you had a magic sword. My original group ran with the idea, not only the sword, but a shield too. One of them went all the way to a scar suit of armor, the scar on the chest. 

Magic Items was/is a book detailing magic items and rules for making same.

[Ermenegildo]

On 11/21/2023 at 10:51 AM, Doc Democracy said:

 

Not sure you were following either my point or Vlad's.  The summon spell is the magic part, we were talking about the costs of getting there and what is easiest. A crunchy system should not mean you always go for a complex or difficult approach, it means you can, if you need, tinker with the small details of how it all works and rely less on the meta-game narrative.

 

So, if you can get a cost to use in a spell simply, then you should go for it....

I agree with you that having a simple way to price things is good especially if it provides a more balanced cost to the power compared to the more complex methods.

If I follow your suggestion and use only HKA/RHA, how can I implement the different abilities in creating the weapon?

There are 3 axes that summarize the proficiency in the mindblade creation:

- Time required (Extra time limitation) from zero-phase to full-phase

- Endurance consumed to create the blade

- Activation roll for creating the blade

A novice at the beginning of their training may also have Concentration to create the blade and Endurance to use the blade.

 

If I were just building a single character I'd probably follow your suggestion but I would like to create a set of various versions of this power to help potential users of this material to choose the right level of competency.

 

I was interested in organizing chronicles that span over several years where there are different downtime activities that players can use to improve their characters. Characters should probably start during their adolescence (around 12-16 years old for humans) and grow during the chronicles.

 

[Doc Democracy]

2 hours ago, Ermenegildo said:

There are 3 axes that summarize the proficiency in the mindblade creation:

- Time required (Extra time limitation) from zero-phase to full-phase

- Endurance consumed to create the blade

- Activation roll for creating the blade

A novice at the beginning of their training may also have Concentration to create the blade and Endurance to use the blade.

 

You have laid out the progress itself

 

Obviously the core power is the one used by masters of the art.  It depends on how many steps you want but you add in, or increase more limitations as you get to the novice level.

 

A master has HKA, with possibly no limitations at all.  The SFX are that a sword appears in the masters hand, slashing or stabbing.  If the blade is parried or disarmed, it flickers out of existence and back in again, completing the attack unhindered.

 

Those less gifted need to spend END to bring the blade into existence, they may not always be successful and, if disarmed or restrained, need to make that effort again. Some even take seconds to form the blade, possibly even only when they can concentrate sufficiently to do so.

 

As characters progress, they buy off limitations on the HKA until, when all limitations are gone, they become masters of the MindBlade.

 

😁

[Rich McGee]

On 11/24/2023 at 5:16 PM, Duke Bushido said:

I don't know of it helps,  but I have a fantasy campaign (on and off) in which many barbarian tribes use a type of magic referred to as "body magic."  One of the spells is Blood Sword" (or Blood Axe or Blood Spear).  Essentially it is HKA, physical manifestation, and requires a cutting arm wound dekivered by an opponent (all things to make it difficult to use, get the price down, and prevent someone from being unarmed while not relying on it as a primary weapon)  with the side effect that it costs 1 Body to,activate and reduces REC by 1 while it is active. 

That's an interesting approach.  Does the "cutting arm wound by an opponent" mean BODY damage or is Stun sufficient - and if it is BODY, is that activation cost in addition to the injury?

 

Regardless, requiring an enemy to hurt you is a neat restriction that limits you ability to play sneaky tricks where you appear unarmed, scratch yourself with a sharpened fingernail, and suddenly manifest a greatsword.  I was working on a supervillain earlier (for a non-Hero game) who might very well self-harm (wile burning a reaction to negate it) to create physical duplicates if the heroes have the wrong types of damage to spawn them with attacks.  It's not OP over there, but "I'm bleeding now" tricks that allow self-triggering can be a little busted in a tighter game system.     

[Duke Bushido]

STUN is sufficient for this; we used hit locations for this campaign (from and gritty tone), and this was l, honestly, more a chance to add a bit of chance and play with the locarions chart a bit.  

 

There were no additional activation costs beyond using the spell, though Body magic in general was pre-loaded, so to speak: spell was cast in advance, END /Mana paid, etc, but it requires that blow to activate (we didn't havee "trigger" back in the day).

 

 

[Ermenegildo]

On 11/26/2023 at 9:14 PM, Doc Democracy said:

 

You have laid out the progress itself

 

Obviously the core power is the one used by masters of the art.  It depends on how many steps you want but you add in, or increase more limitations as you get to the novice level.

 

A master has HKA, with possibly no limitations at all.  The SFX are that a sword appears in the masters hand, slashing or stabbing.  If the blade is parried or disarmed, it flickers out of existence and back in again, completing the attack unhindered.

 

Those less gifted need to spend END to bring the blade into existence, they may not always be successful and, if disarmed or restrained, need to make that effort again. Some even take seconds to form the blade, possibly even only when they can concentrate sufficiently to do so.

 

As characters progress, they buy off limitations on the HKA until, when all limitations are gone, they become masters of the MindBlade.

 

😁

Ok, but how do I price an activation roll on an HKA that is rolled only when the blade is summoned and not every time that the blade is used? This is the part that I really don't understand in your proposal.

Limitations on HKA/RKA should trigger every time the power is used, right?

[Doc Democracy]

1 hour ago, Ermenegildo said:

Ok, but how do I price an activation roll on an HKA that is rolled only when the blade is summoned and not every time that the blade is used? This is the part that I really don't understand in your proposal.

Limitations on HKA/RKA should trigger every time the power is used, right?

 

You can take a lesser limitation on the activation roll, if it is only to switch on a constant power.  Will go look at the details and edit this.

 

Later...

OK, the requires a roll limitation is +1/2 for 11 or less, you make no change to that if it is only a roll to switch on the power.

 

If that was 11 or less every time you wanted to use the power it would be a +1 limitation. P389 of 6E1.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Doc Democracy
gave a bad answer initially...

[Ermenegildo]

11 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

You can take a lesser limitation on the activation roll, if it is only to switch on a constant power.  Will go look at the details and edit this.

 

Later...

OK, the requires a roll limitation is +1/2 for 11 or less, you make no change to that if it is only a roll to switch on the power.

 

If that was 11 or less every time you wanted to use the power it would be a +1 limitation. P389 of 6E1.

Ahh ok, I can not find a similar rule in the basic book of the 5°ed.

 

Concerning Endurance limitations, there is something like applying the limitation only in uncommon/common/very common situations. However, I have some doubts about how this interacts with the reduced endurance cost.

 

For extra time I should just halve the limitation, right?

And for Concentration?

[Doc Democracy]

17 minutes ago, Ermenegildo said:

Ahh ok, I can not find a similar rule in the basic book of the 5°ed.

 

Concerning Endurance limitations, there is something like applying the limitation only in uncommon/common/very common situations. However, I have some doubts about how this interacts with the reduced endurance cost.

 

For extra time I should just halve the limitation, right?

And for Concentration?

 

Right, there were a lot of characters using this feature and it was formally written in in 6th Edition.  It is not halving the limitation, it is subtracting 1/2 from the limitation, so +1 becomes +1/2 and +1/2 becomes 0.

 

Concentration, in 5th edition, provides values where activation only is the default.  I realise that you are confusing things by considering an instant power (killing attack) like a constant power (availability of killing attack).  I think as GM I would allow you to take concentration at -1/4 the usual value.

 

Doc

 

[Ermenegildo]

Citing from page 290 of the 5th edition manual:

The Limitation values in the Extra Time Table
apply to powers that require the Extra Time each
time the character activates them. If the power has
a lengthy activation time, but the character can
use it every Phase from then on without taking
Extra Time, halve the Limitation value (minimum
value of -¼). This applies to Constant or Persistent
Powers (and some Instant Powers) that only require
Extra Time to activate, but not to use or maintain
in any Phase after that.

Emphasis mine, are you referring to more general rules?

[Doc Democracy]

I almost never use extra time so don't think I ever read that.

 

I suppose it is up to you but most of the stuff I have looked at, like charges and (in 6th edition) requires a roll, things are added and subtracted.

 

Choice is yours...

[Ermenegildo]

Ok, to sum up:

 

Extra time is probably worth -1/2

 

Activation roll, from -1 1/2 for 8- to -1/4 for 13-. Jammed could be an interesting option for an extremely powerful mindblade or to introduce "social" drama if the mindblade is a cultural status symbol. Something along the lines of "Who sinned, his father or his mother, that he was born with a defective mindblade?".

 

Concentration possibly -1/4

 

Cost Endurace boh?

 

On 11/28/2023 at 7:52 PM, Doc Democracy said:

 

 I realise that you are confusing things by considering an instant power (killing attack) like a constant power (availability of killing attack).

 

 

I dare to say that this is a game design shortcoming. The game shows his roots in the superhero genre where "effect" and "consequences" are more important than "Source" and "How". This is a perfectly reasonable assumption if you try to emulate a genre that takes no pride in internal coherence and mechanistic explanation but, instead, focuses on the rule of cool, creativity and flexibility. In this context, the ability to damage someone and to be able to create something that damages someone is almost equal. But if you change genre then the two things become different and the ability to create something that damages others should be different from the damage itself.

 

I'm almost sure that somewhere (maybe Dark Champions) there are rules for dividing ammunition weapons between the weapon itself and the ammunition.

[animemun001]

Multipower with HKA and RKA with the Variable Special Effect advantage. While the effects and damage might not change the cause of the damage would. Novices would take the extra time and concentration Limitations on the Multipower, but once created would function in a similar manner to the Masters, except maybe damage output.

 

Hope this idea helps