How to make a Useful Ghost?

[Cygnia]

So, looking to join a street level DC game elsewhere. 300 points with up to 60 points of complications. Active Points: 50 - 60 with an average of 20 PD/ED Defenses are the guidelines.  My concept is some sort of ghost/revenant who got murdered last year and "came back".  And she's torqued that the cops and media don't seem to care she's dead or have done anything to solve who killed her and why.  She was a burgeoning podcaster before her murder, so I'd like some minor sonic power as a connection (NOT a banshee!). I was looking at things like Sonic Discomfiture and Voice Negation from Champions Powers, maybe also the Kitty Pryde schtick of shorting out electronics.  But the big thing is, how to build her?  Desolid? Life support with total immunity? Can this be done with this sort of point buy to make a viable PC?

[Christopher R Taylor]

300 points is going to leave you not much room to be anything but a ghost, but it should be possible to get it done.  This is the basic block you will want to consider for a ghost:

 

Life Support (vs breathing, eating, sleeping, aging, disease, poison at least)

Desolidification

Takes No Stun (does not lose abilities)

Does Not Bleed

that's all around 150 points just to be a ghost

 

You won't need enormous defenses, because in a Champions Campaign its rarely lethal and you only have to worry about body damage.  You'll want to be scary, because you're a ghost, so high presence.  You will probably want flight, so you can float around through things.  You should have defenses like power defense because you're a ghost so a lot of attacks that are built around adjustment powers ought not work on you, or at least as well.  You'll want some kind of extra defenses to see in the dark or inside enclosed spaces you float through.

 

Whether you want END cost or not is up to you.  You could treat the END cost as "ectoplasm" or something, you have only x amount and have to build it back up to do things.  If you are desolid all the time, you'll need 0 END Cost on it at least.

 

The zap electronics thing is going to be pretty expensive because it ignores defenses and affects solid so you have a pretty hefty advantage stack right up front (at least +3).

 

[Lord Liaden]

An alternative would be to make a revenant character that's corporeal by default, which would eliminate dealing with a lot of Affects Solid World Advantage. Most of the folklore surrounding revenants depicts them as reanimated corpses possessed by spirits of the deceased, either the body's original owner or another vengeful spirit. If you want to keep an intangible spirit form, perhaps the possessing spirit could leave its body temporarily, as the special effect of Desolid or Clairsentience which Leaves Body Behind.

 

The late great Scott Bennie took a different approach for a character in his Champions Of The North. That was also explicitly a revenant, one which had materialized a tangible form for itself, presumably by an act of will. In that case it would be easy to justify the character reverting back to an intangible spectral state, deliberately and/or accidentally.

[DShomshak]

I prefer to write up ghosts in a way that is... possibly not that useful to other GMs. I treat them as usually existing on the Astral Plane. From the POV of creatures on Earth, that makes their default state invisible and desolid; they can see and hear things on Earth, but need Powers to affect anything. Intangible manifestation is a Transdimensional Image. Any ghostly attacks require Transdimensional as well (and don't forget the Indirect to enable the Transdimensional, except for TK "poltergeist" effects since TK is Indirect already). Extra PRE for ghost;ly terror doesn't need XDim because PRE attacks only require that targets perceive you in some way. EDM to materialize on Earth, which might enable stronger attacks but also makes it possible for other people to hit you.

 

I used this method for a Generic Minor Ghost that will see publication eventually, I hope, if Jason ever gets back to me with test reader feedback to The Sylvestri Family Reunion.

 

GMs might not want this writeup because it's kind of hacky. It also means making the Astral Plane part of the campaign. Other things dwell on the Astral Plane, not just other ghosts. It can pull a campaign in a more mystical direction than a Street HERO GM may want to go. So you and your GM may prefer Chris Taylor's approach.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Grailknight]

I'd go with this.

 

Ghostly Forms:  Multipower, 60-point reserve

 6f-Incorporeal Form:  Desolidification , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points)

 2f-Semi-solid Form:  Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points), Costs END only to Activate

 2f-Semi-Solid form:  Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points), Costs END only to Activate

 

Flight 15m, x4 Noncombat, Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+1/4) (25 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Only when in Incorporeal form; -1/4)

 

This way the character can interact with the regular world but is Desolid as a default. The Semi-Solid forms should be considered a Combined Power (Sorry, I had already closed HD).

 

 

 

[Gauntlet]

If the ghost cannot do anything other than look for things for the main character you could just do it as clairsentience with a lot of limitations.

[Christopher R Taylor]

There was a TV show in the 80s, it was a filler for a canceled other show.  It involved a detective who had a ghost friend (possibly his old partner, i can't remember) who helped him solve cases.  I always liked that concept, it could make someone seem incredibly brilliant.  They'd still have to build a case -- the information the ghost got wouldn't be admissible, of course, but it would basically be clairsentience with a bunch of limitations like physical manifestation of a sort, and time delay, etc.

 

Of course on the show every single episode there was some psychic or exorcist or someone who could sense and block or endanger the ghost, which struck me as bizarrely coincidental.

[Gauntlet]

On 4/6/2024 at 4:22 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

Of course on the show every single episode there was some psychic or exorcist or someone who could sense and block or endanger the ghost, which struck me as bizarrely coincidental.

 

Of course that was standard in 80s TV.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah, its easier than writing actual challenging mysteries and clever stories.  Compare that kind of thing to Columbo or Rockford or even Miami Vice.  Heck even Simon & Simon.  The better writer would create limitations of a ghost and use those (run out of ectoplasm?  Cannot enter holy ground?  Only can act at night? etc).  They would show how no matter how much the detective learns who is guilty, they still have to build a case: trap the villain, or find a way to gather the evidence he knows is lying in a certain room he cannot enter without a warrant (well your honor, my spectral ex-partner saw it there...).  They would have the ghost have his own agenda, what he is trying to accomplish other that a set of eyeballs that can walk through walls.

 

But instead we got an endless array of psychics and ghost busters.

[Cygnia]

Well, I've designed her if anyone wants to give her a peek or so...

 

Spoiler

CHARACTERISTICS Val Char Base Points Total Roll Notes 5 STR 10 -5 5 10- HTH Damage 1d6 END [1] 20 DEX 10 20 20 13-   20 CON 10 10 20 13-   20 BODY 10 10 20     18 INT 10 8 18 13- PER Roll 13- 18 EGO 10 8 18 13-   30 PRE 10 20 50 19- PRE Attack: 10d6                             20 PD 2 18 20   20 PD (0 rPD) 20 ED 2 18 20   20 ED (0 rED) 4 SPD 2.0 20 4   Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12 10 REC 4 6 10     30 END 20 2 30     30 STUN 20 5 30     10" Running 12 -2 10m     0" Swimming 4 -2 0m     4" Leaping 4 0 4m 185 Total Characteristics Points CHARACTER IMAGE   EXPERIENCE POINTS Total earned: 0 Spent: 60 Unspent: 0 Base Points: 300 Disad Points: 60 Total Points: 360 MOVEMENT Type Total Run (12) 10m [20m NC] Swim (4) 0m [ NC] H. Leap (4m) 4m V. Leap (2m) 2m Flight 10m [40m NC] DEFENSES Type Amount Physical Defense 20 Res. Phys. Defense 0 Energy Defense 20 Res. Energy Defense 0 Mental Defense 5 Power Defense 5

COMBAT INFORMATION OCV: 7 DCV: 7   Combat Skill Levels: COMBAT MANEUVERS Maneuver Phase OCV DCV Effect Block 1/2 +0 +0 Block, abort Brace 0 +2 1/2 +2 vs. Range Mod. Disarm 1/2 -2 +0 Can disarm Dodge 1/2 -- +3 Abort, vs. all attacks Grab 1/2 -1 -2 Grab two limbs Grab By 1/2 -3 -4 Move and Grab Haymaker 1/2* +0 -5 +4 DC attack damage Move By 1/2 -2 -2 STR/2 + v/5 Move Through 1/2 -v/5 -3 STR + v/3 Set 1 +1 +0 Ranged Attacks only Strike 1/2 +0 +0 STR or weapon COMBAT MODIFIERS Range 0-4 5-8 9-16 17-32 33-64 65-128 RMOD 0 -2 -4 -6 -8 -10 Targeting shot OCV Hit Location Head shot (Head to Shoulders) -4 1d6+3 High shot (Head to Vitals) -2 2d6+1 Body shot (Hands to Legs) -1 2d6+4 Low shot (Shoulders to Feet) -2 2d6+7 Leg shot (Vitals to Feet) -4 1d6+12

 

Character Name: Eleanor Wrigley Alternate Identities: Geist Player Name: RedRajah
SKILLS Cost  Name 3 Mimicry 13- 3 Oratory 19- 3 Computer Programming 13- 3 Forensic Medicine 13- 3 Criminology 13- 3 Deduction 13- 3 Streetwise 19- 3 Ventriloquism 13- 5 Cramming 3 Interrogation 19- 3 Shadowing 13- 35 Total Skills Cost PERKS Cost  Name 3 Dead Folk Get No Notice: Anonymity 3 Total Perks Cost TALENTS Cost  Name 4 Speed Reading (x10) 4 Total Talents Cost		POWERS Cost  Power END 31 Life Support (Eating: Character does not eat; Immunity All terrestrial poisons; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases; Longevity: Immortal; Self-Contained Breathing; Sleeping: Character does not sleep) Notes: This is a ghost 0 5 Power Defense (5 points) 0 5 Mental Defense (5 points total) 0 8 EctoHeal: Regeneration (1 BODY per Hour) 0 60 Ghosty Stuff!: Multipower, 60-point reserve   4f 1) It Goes RIGHT Through Me!: Desolidification (affected by Magic), Custom Adder (40 Active Points) 4 3f 2) FREEZE, MOTHER[BLEEP]ER!: Entangle 2d6, 2 PD/2 ED, Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DMCV; Mental Paralysis; +1/4), Works Against EGO, Not STR (Mental Paralysis; +1/4), Takes No Damage From Attacks All Attacks, STR only to break out (Mental Paralysis; +1) (50 Active Points); Mental Defense Adds To EGO (Mental Paralysis; -1/2) Notes: Mental Paralysis 5 2f 3) THAT WHICH MAN WAS NOT MEANT TO SEE!: Sight Group Flash 4d6 (20 Active Points); Limited Range (-1/4) 2 2f 4) Just Call Me 'John Cena'!: Invisibility to Sight Group (20 Active Points) 2 2f 5) That Oogie-Boogie Feeling: Drain CON 2d6 (20 Active Points) 2 3v 6) WHEE~!: Flight 10m, x4 Noncombat (15 Active Points) 1 2f 7) Gimmie That!: Telekinesis (10 STR), Fine Manipulation (25 Active Points) 2 4v 😎 "BOOOOOOOOOO~!": +20 PRE (20 Active Points)   2f 9) Ghost In the Machine: Dispel Electronic Devices/Computers 12d6 (36 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2) Notes: Affects only Electronic Devices/Computers 8 133 Total Powers Cost

 

Character Name: Eleanor Wrigley Alternate Identities: Geist Player Name: RedRajah
DISADVANTAGES
Cost	Disadvantage
5	Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x BODY Magic (Uncommon)
5	Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x STUN Magic (Uncommon)
10	Psychological Complication: Obsessed with finding out THE TRUTH about her murder (Uncommon; Strong) Notes: Leaving the specifics up to the GM
15	Psychological Complication: Code Versus Killing (Common; Strong)
25	Distinctive Features: Ghost (Not Concealable; Extreme Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
60	Total Disadvantages Cost

 

[Gauntlet]

Wouldn't a Ghost always be Desolid?

[Cygnia]

One, IC she's still "learning how to ghost".

 

Two, OOC it's a concession to the GM that the desolid isn't always on.

[Grailknight]

Very nice!

 

I might suggest changing the Drain from CON to PRE but that might be too effective.

[DShomshak]

Chinese and Japanese ghosts often seem solid. Until they don't. See Chinese Ghost Story or Kwaidan (both excellent movies!)

 

Dean Shomshak

[Gauntlet]

Though I would think that they would be able to naturally stay desolid and not have to pay endurance on it. Might not be a bad idea to have the desolid both 0 END and constant.

[Cygnia]

As I said earlier, GM doesn't want the Desolid always on, so that's why she can't stay Desolid 24/7...

[Cygnia]

Had to tweak and edit -- had too many CP in play 😛

 

Character Name: Eleanor Wrigley Alternate Identities: Geist Player Name: RedRajah
CHARACTERISTICS Val Char Base Points Total Roll Notes 5 STR 10 -5 5 10- HTH Damage 1d6 END [1] 15 DEX 10 10 15 12-   18 CON 10 8 18 13-   16 BODY 10 6 16     18 INT 10 8 18 13- PER Roll 13- 18 EGO 10 8 18 13-   18 PRE 10 8 38 17- PRE Attack: 7 1/2d6                             20 PD 2 18 20   20 PD (0 rPD) 20 ED 2 18 20   20 ED (0 rED) 4 SPD 2.0 20 4   Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12 10 REC 4 6 10     30 END 20 2 30     20 STUN 20 0 20     10" Running 12 -2 10m     0" Swimming 4 -2 0m     2" Leaping 4 -1 2m 142 Total Characteristics Points CHARACTER IMAGE   EXPERIENCE POINTS Total earned: 0 Spent: 0 Unspent: 0 Base Points: 300 Disad Points: 60 Total Points: 300 MOVEMENT Type Total Run (12) 10m [20m NC] Swim (4) 0m [ NC] H. Leap (4m) 2m V. Leap (2m) 1m Flight 10m [40m NC] DEFENSES Type Amount Physical Defense 20 Res. Phys. Defense 0 Energy Defense 20 Res. Energy Defense 0 Mental Defense 3 Power Defense 3			COMBAT INFORMATION OCV: 7 DCV: 7   Combat Skill Levels: COMBAT MANEUVERS Maneuver Phase OCV DCV Effect Block 1/2 +0 +0 Block, abort Brace 0 +2 1/2 +2 vs. Range Mod. Disarm 1/2 -2 +0 Can disarm Dodge 1/2 -- +3 Abort, vs. all attacks Grab 1/2 -1 -2 Grab two limbs Grab By 1/2 -3 -4 Move and Grab Haymaker 1/2* +0 -5 +4 DC attack damage Move By 1/2 -2 -2 STR/2 + v/5 Move Through 1/2 -v/5 -3 STR + v/3 Set 1 +1 +0 Ranged Attacks only Strike 1/2 +0 +0 STR or weapon COMBAT MODIFIERS Range 0-4 5-8 9-16 17-32 33-64 65-128 RMOD 0 -2 -4 -6 -8 -10 Targeting shot OCV Hit Location Head shot (Head to Shoulders) -4 1d6+3 High shot (Head to Vitals) -2 2d6+1 Body shot (Hands to Legs) -1 2d6+4 Low shot (Shoulders to Feet) -2 2d6+7 Leg shot (Vitals to Feet) -4 1d6+12

 

Character Name: Eleanor Wrigley Alternate Identities: Geist Player Name: RedRajah
SKILLS Cost  Name 3 Mimicry 13- 3 Oratory 17- 3 Computer Programming 13- 3 Forensic Medicine 13- 3 Criminology 13- 3 Streetwise 17- 3 Ventriloquism 13- 5 Cramming 3 Interrogation 17- 3 Shadowing 13- 32 Total Skills Cost PERKS Cost  Name 3 Dead Folk Get No Notice: Anonymity 3 Total Perks Cost TALENTS Cost  Name 4 Speed Reading (x10) 4 Total Talents Cost		POWERS Cost  Power END 31 Life Support (Eating: Character does not eat; Immunity All terrestrial poisons; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases; Longevity: Immortal; Self-Contained Breathing; Sleeping: Character does not sleep) Notes: This is a ghost 0 3 Power Defense (3 points) 0 3 Mental Defense (3 points total) 0 8 EctoHeal: Regeneration (1 BODY per Hour) 0 50 Ghosty Stuff!: Multipower, 50-point reserve   4f 1) It Goes RIGHT Through Me!: Desolidification (affected by Magic), Custom Adder (40 Active Points) 4 3f 2) FREEZE, MOTHER[BLEEP]ER!: Entangle 2d6, 2 PD/2 ED, Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DMCV; Mental Paralysis; +1/4), Works Against EGO, Not STR (Mental Paralysis; +1/4), Takes No Damage From Attacks All Attacks, STR only to break out (Mental Paralysis; +1) (50 Active Points); Mental Defense Adds To EGO (Mental Paralysis; -1/2) Notes: Mental Paralysis 5 2f 3) THAT WHICH MAN WAS NOT MEANT TO SEE!: Sight Group Flash 4d6 (20 Active Points); Limited Range (-1/4) 2 2f 4) Just Call Me 'John Cena'!: Invisibility to Sight Group (20 Active Points) 2 2f 5) That Oogie-Boogie Feeling: Drain CON 2d6 (20 Active Points) 2 3v 6) WHEE~!: Flight 10m, x4 Noncombat (15 Active Points) 1 2f 7) Gimmie That!: Telekinesis (10 STR), Fine Manipulation (25 Active Points) 2 4v 😎 "BOOOOOOOOOO~!": +20 PRE (20 Active Points)   2f 9) Ghost In the Machine: Dispel Electronic Devices/Computers 12d6 (36 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2) Notes: Affects only Electronic Devices/Computers 8 119 Total Powers Cost

 

Character Name: Eleanor Wrigley Alternate Identities: Geist Player Name: RedRajah
DISADVANTAGES
Cost	Disadvantage
5	Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x BODY Magic (Uncommon)
5	Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x STUN Magic (Uncommon)
10	Psychological Complication: Obsessed with finding out THE TRUTH about her murder (Uncommon; Strong) Notes: Leaving the specifics up to the GM
15	Psychological Complication: Code Versus Killing (Common; Strong)
25	Distinctive Features: Ghost (Not Concealable; Extreme Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
60	Total Disadvantages Cost