What would your character do? #44 (May be disturbing to some)

[McCoy]

Originally posted by ZootSoot

Physical trauma can prevent short term memory from dumping into long term. Repression would require that you go from at one point remembering something to at another point having no recollection of it or awareness of having lost that memory through an act of will.

Exactly. Physical, and to a lesser extent emotional, trama can prevent long term memories from coding. It is not that unusual for an abused child (sexual abuse or otherwise) to remember, for example, lying in bed crying after the abuse, but be somewhat hazy on the details of the abuse itself. This is where some investigators make the mistake of trying to "recover" the memories, and end up with very tainted witnesses.

[ZootSoot]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

ORIGINAL SOLUTION (my post):

 

(SNIP)

 

 

If photos of his images violate laws, so do his images, which would mean he does have a problem. (SNIP)

 

That's simply not true. For example, it is not illegal for a person to have sex with an adult with the appearance of a child, nor is it illegal for that adult to "role-play" childhood, but if this activity is filmed or photographed without disclaimers or documentation of the age of the adults involved and is then distributed the photographer and distributor can (and usually would be) in violation of child pornography laws.

[ZootSoot]

Originally posted by McCoy

Exactly. Physical, and to a lesser extent emotional, trama can prevent long term memories from coding. It is not that unusual for an abused child (sexual abuse or otherwise) to remember, for example, lying in bed crying after the abuse, but be somewhat hazy on the details of the abuse itself. This is where some investigators make the mistake of trying to "recover" the memories, and end up with very tainted witnesses.

 

Not at all the same thing. One's short term memory covers about the last fifteen minutes one'slife experience. Commonly, losing consciousness means loss of those last fifteen minutes because they never followed the normal transition from short term to long term memory.. This is not repressing memory. In the post you quoted I explained what memory repression would consist of but you did not address that. It doesn't happen. Spotty memories of an event which does not include that loss of consciousness correspond to spotty perceptions at the time of the event not to willful suppression of the event.

[lemming]

Originally posted by ZootSoot

In the post you quoted I explained what memory repression would consist of but you did not address that. It doesn't happen. Spotty memories of an event which does not include that loss of consciousness correspond to spotty perceptions at the time of the event not to willful suppression of the event.

I actually agree with you in regards to the losing consiousness angle. (having done that a few times as well...)

 

Back on repression vs forgetting. Two different animals in my book. I have memories I've shut down on purpose. Sometimes a trigger will remind me and the full force of those events come back. So don't tell me that repressed memories are bogus. These aren't spotty recollections, they're memories I choose not to deal with.

I think you're confusing them with recovered memories. Which are often more to do with the person doing the recovering process than the person doing the "remembering"

[McCoy]

Originally posted by ZootSoot

Not at all the same thing. One's short term memory covers about the last fifteen minutes one'slife experience. Commonly, losing consciousness means loss of those last fifteen minutes because they never followed the normal transition from short term to long term memory.. This is not repressing memory. In the post you quoted I explained what memory repression would consist of but you did not address that. It doesn't happen. Spotty memories of an event which does not include that loss of consciousness correspond to spotty perceptions at the time of the event not to willful suppression of the event.

Again, no. A concussion almost always causes a lacona in the memory even when one does not loose consciousness. While it is relatively rarer for trama other than concussion, it does happen. (The accident I described I did not hit my head or loose consciousness, but the memory didn't code.)

[lemming]

Originally posted by McCoy

Again, no. A concussion almost always causes a lacona in the memory even when one does not loose consciousness. While it is relatively rarer for trama other than concussion, it does happen. (The accident I described I did not hit my head or loose consciousness, but the memory didn't code.)

Hmm. Info I was unaware of. I'd hadn't lost any memories due to trauma that wasn't a concussion.

In one I didn't remember most of the day leading up to the accident.

Another, I remember most everything leading up to the impact, and then for 2 hours just a hazy recollection as I wandered Santa Cruz with a bleeding scalp.

The Skiing concussion, not much was lost. I remember going down and then waking up while sliding to a stop. (about 500 yards later downslope)

The latest one, I lost just a couple bits as well.

-----

I still consider physical trauma and repressing memories two different areas.

 

We should probably move this area of the conversation to NGD.

[ZootSoot]

Originally posted by lemming

I actually agree with you in regards to the losing consiousness angle. (having done that a few times as well...)

 

Back on repression vs forgetting. Two different animals in my book. I have memories I've shut down on purpose. Sometimes a trigger will remind me and the full force of those events come back. So don't tell me that repressed memories are bogus. These aren't spotty recollections, they're memories I choose not to deal with.

I think you're confusing them with recovered memories. Which are often more to do with the person doing the recovering process than the person doing the "remembering"

 

I don't think that simply denying an event and avoiding thinking about it can be considered repression either. You have those memories, you choose not to deal with them but they are always there ready for you to access should you decide you want to or if something forcibly reminds you of them. You don't ever sincerely believe that you have no memories of those events, do you?

[Chuckg]

Baron von Darien -- rip his spinal cord out and hang him from the light fixture with it.

 

Starguard -- throw up. Then get very angry. Then strip the man of his powers /and/ throw his kiddie porn butt to the police.

 

Doctor Pain -- assuming the mutt survives the first STR 60 rage-induced punch, he'll calm down and hand the case over to the local Silver Avenger, as he's not a vigilante killer and "deep thought" issues like this one make his brain hurt.

[Lord Mhoram]

Originally posted by ZootSoot

Why not just kill him? Your method seems a little baroque for the same effect . . .

 

Sorry for the late responce, didn't glance in at this thread for a while.

 

That was the "psychic surgery" curing the pedophilia. But if for some reason this cure breaks (and with a 60 pt cosmic pool mental transform, it shouldn't) he put in the other as a safeguard. Remember Ballistic is an ex-cop and have that kind of responce, because he's seen things like that before (in non superpowered versions). From what he saw on the streets, crims of sex and power always escalate (whetehr they do or not, that would be his opinion), and he figures at some point that the copies would be not enough (too much like self "abuse" )and he would go after the real thing, so he would put an end to it- one way (fixing him) or another (the failsafe).

[Farkling]

FlameJet:: Jet should know better, and contact a lawyer... but who am I kidding? He'd lose his temper completely in the face of "there's no crime" and incinerate the bastard AND the apartment.

 

Lightning:: Lightnin' knows a mentalist, and would initially consult with her to find out if HE is imagining things. Provided SHE doesn't take liberties with the old man's dreaming, or reprogram him...Lightnin' would consult the appropriate law books. Lightnin' would be VERY upset, as he acts as a patron to the local orphanages in his secret ID, putting on magic shows with his superspeed. If there is no actual law being broken, he would either

 

A) Use his prior contacts, disguise, and computer hacking to lock the guy up in the Stronghold psych ward. ("Yeah, he'll go on and on about how he didn't do anything, but he's a psycho, he did it, and blocked the reprehensible actions out. Just keep the meds and suppressors on, and have the treatment monitored. He's dangerous")

 

Follow the Count's lead. Frame him for actual pedophilia. Lightnin' would be sickened by the need for these actions, but he has learned that doing things that are unpleasant is part of the lot of the Hero. he might have trouble sleeping, but what the old man is doing is WRONG. Even with COPIES of kids. Especially if they are SENTIENT copies!

 

C) If it is impossible to bring justice to the villain, Lightnin' would undertake to drive him out of the country through harassment and psuedo-hauntings. Searching his apartment. Tampering with bank accounts. Eviction. etc etc. Exporting him to a country where his actions are more legally acceptable would do if it was the only choice.

[Vigil]

I haven't read all the responses but I think the consesnus is pretty clear.

 

As for my team, Worldwatch the punishments would probably read as follows:

 

Vigil - walk with the man into The Dusk where Vigil would sell him off to extradimensional horrors at a slave market...what goes around comes around.

Nirvana - if she paid any attention to him at all she would probably just erase him with an energy blast.

The Aviator - would be shatttered to see the depravity that a supposedly civilized man is capable of. He would surveil the man until he had enough evidence to act...while making sure with his phenomenal senses that these children aren't or are "real" and then he would act within the law to bring a stop to it. He would also see about counselling for the real children.

Professor Cinnabar - more or less the same response as The Aviator.

Job Hatchet - to a man who was raised as a shepherd on an otherdimensional Earth and has since adopted mankind as his flock...you do the math. Wrath of God comes to mind.

Doc Monolith - probably along the lines of Cinnabar and The Aviator

Spectra - the ingenue of the team would be the most problematic. Only in her mid teens herself she may have a horrible time dealing with something like this. She'd proabably feel horribly conflicted, she'd do everything she could to protect the children, but would never loook at taking the man's life as an option. But she would do everything she could to see justice done. Something like this would be an incredibly test of character for her.

Eikon - does the man possess any items of occult power which Eikon could collect? No? then he wouldn't give a rat's ass.

 

I think that's how my team would deal with it if they had to.

 

Vigil

[Guest Skaramine]

Re: What would your character do? #44 (May be disturbing to some)

 

Any of them: Stuff him into an empty soda pop can.

 

Yeah, he's about 150 pounds of meat trying to occupy a 12 ounce aluminum container. But it's a fun physics experiment.

 

Then I'd pop the GM in the mouth and walk home.

[Metaphysician]

Re: What would your character do? #44 (May be disturbing to some)

 

Microman II would contact the rest of the Sentinels for advise and aid. His inclination, however, would be extremely hostile. The offender is acting and talking as if the "child" is merely a toy, a tool, a non-person, and yet s/he was ( presumably ) acting like a real child while being raped. This would strike home very strongly at Microman's own beliefs and questions about what constitutes a person.

 

Basically, Microman is probably going to have to do an Ego roll. If he succeeds, Sentinels get called in, much pain ensues for the offender ( especially since the Sentinels include a guy who can determine truth, a gal who can see souls, and a guy who can probe minds ), but he *probably* ends up turned in to the authorities.

 

If it fails, Mr "Not Really a Crime" gets something very, very, very painful done to him. And Microman II has alot of options available to him. . .

[Maelstrom]

Re: What would your character do? #44 (Mature & disturbing situation)

 

It depends. Are these 'copies' real flesh and blood, or some kind of image?

 

Note that this is NOT an academic question -- the former answer will result in the immediate death of the old man, as if these copies have some semblence of life, even temporarily, he is a child rapist.

 

In the second, he can live, in jail, for child pornography.

[Vigil]

Re: What would your character do? #44 (May be disturbing to some)

 

I mentioned above what my team would most probably do but to even postulate this scenario I think raises a real question and doubt as to where the content of some games, if not RPGs is going.

 

Champions, as it was originally conceived, was a product of the early 80's Bronze Age comics and most directly of the X-Men and Teen Titans and it's overall philosophy and storytelling reflects that. Of course times change and Champions reflects this in Dark Champions. Heck in some Iron Age titles (most notably The Authority) it could well be the PCs who are the child rapists or, at the very least, bored and jaded observers of the act.

 

Which to me speaks to a fundamental grievance that I have with much of what is currently being published and much of what is surrently "trendy" in RPGs. Personally, I don't think the type ofleering cynicism and nihilism that this scenario postulates have any place in anything even vaguely heroicin nature. To me, Champions should deal with a somewhat "plastic" idealized meta-reality. Personally, the last thing I want in a game is to reenact the worst kind of sleaziness of everyday life.

 

There's a term used in pro wrestling for such stories and tactics and it's callled "cheap heat". Cheap heat is any kind of act which elicits an emotional repsonse ("a pop") by shock tactics as opposed to through storytelling and charcterization . Along those lines, I think that any GM that presents such scenarios is at the very least lazy in his planning and storytelling. At the worst I'd say he's a creep with some sort of mental problems. At the leas, I'd have to question just what it is that the GM is trying to accomplish by presenting such a scenario. Is he condemning child abuse (and worse) or glorifying it in the cynical way that seems so "cool" nowadays? Is he trying to present some sort of moral conundrum about the limits of law as opposed to justice? I don't know but it's a very fine line.

 

I think that Champions is best when it deals in the rather idealizied, plasticized world of mythic rights and wrongs that I'd mentioned above. But that's just my opinion.

 

Vigil

[drnuncheon]

Re: What would your character do? #44 (May be disturbing to some)

 

Finally, one of these is a good "Dark Champs" type WWYCD, and since that's the style of my game, I'll guess what my players' answers would be.

 

Judgement runs a shelter for abused women and children. She's also a former assassin ressurrected as an angel of vengeance. I don't think she'd even give the guy a chance to szay there was no evidence before snapping his neck.

 

Ghost is an amnesiac mentalist trapped in a robotic body. I'm not entirely certain what he'd do, but I suspect the guy wouldn't be long for this world.

 

The Hispanic speedster Velocidad is the most four-color of them. I'm not sure he'd kill the guy, but he'd likely haul him off to the police. After that, it's his word against the other, but considering the fate of most child molestors in confinment, the guy might not make it to trial anyway.

 

J