to hex or not to hex

[ghost-angel]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

I prefer combats without any grids. If you need distanves I use a tape measure. Grids (hexes or otherwise) always break the mood for me a little bit.

 

Non-hexed does not mean non-mapped, I see no loss of tactical play.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

Either one can do just fine. you just need a ruler or such if no hexes, The advantages of using maps are almost infinite to me. no way I would ever go back to non mapped combat But that's really not what you asked anyway.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

I'm all for hexes.

[GhostDancer]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

Our crew complains about GMs that never use battle maps. Sometimes I'll use a supertac scale: one hex = one meter. Next game features superdupertac maps: one hex = 1/2 meter (small rooms).

[The Main Man]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

I prefer combats without any grids. If you need distanves I use a tape measure. Grids (hexes or otherwise) always break the mood for me a little bit.

 

Non-hexed does not mean non-mapped, I see no loss of tactical play.

That's my view. I like that 6e has the positive externality of removing the necessity of hex maps so that players can decide what they prefer to use on their own and to what scale they prefer.

 

That said, when I use a map, I do prefer hexes if only because it makes diagonal movement more fluid.

[Daeglan]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

I prefer combats without any grids. If you need distanves I use a tape measure. Grids (hexes or otherwise) always break the mood for me a little bit.

 

Non-hexed does not mean non-mapped, I see no loss of tactical play.

 

In fact it is more realistic if you don't allow measuring range till you make the shot. Unless you have absolute range. IE a laser range finder. I have been making miniature terrain for use with RPGs.

[GhostDancer]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

I ran a Dark Champions convention game set in August 2003, Detroit, during the international power failure. I made a hex map of St Anne's church. My players decided to check out the Detroit Institute of Arts- no power meant prime time for a big robbery, yes? I erased part of each church pew, transforming them into glass display cases. Cathedral chapels became art museum galleries. My players were none the wiser.

[Mister E]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

I picked up a bunch of cheap used heroclix for my game. I generally keep things abstract on the table by only using linear maps that tell how close characters are to each other.

 

That being said, my knowledge of where the minis are is inversely proportional to my mental image of where the characters are.

[RexMundi]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

I use Hexes, I just call them 1 Meter now instead of 2, since if you take some masking tape and plop a 1 meter hex on the ground, you can reach half way or slightly more into the next one without leaving your own, and if REALLY friendly, get two normal sized people into the same Hex.

 

So my Battle Mat still works just fine.

 

~Rex

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

In fact it is more realistic if you don't allow measuring range till you make the shot. Unless you have absolute range. IE a laser range finder.

 

That would drive me up the wall, personally.

[Daeglan]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

That would drive me up the wall' date=' personally.[/quote']

Move, say you are going to make a shot, Measure, apply modifier and roll. We can't measure distances in real life why should we be able to in the game?

[Mister E]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

Move' date=' say you are going to make a shot, Measure, apply modifier and roll. We can't measure distances in real life why should we be able to in the game?[/quote']

 

This is the way table top war-games (e.g., WarHammer 40k) are generally played. These are competitive games & not RPGs (unless you play against me... in which case, it is a little of both).

 

HERO has rules for allowing PCs to have precise range-detection.

 

I think it boils down to how much you want to meta-game.

[lemming]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

Move' date=' say you are going to make a shot, Measure, apply modifier and roll. We can't measure distances in real life why should we be able to in the game?[/quote']

 

Personally, I think my combat trained super has a much better judge of range than my eyes would have.

[Daeglan]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

Having talked to people who have been in gun fights they say things like they were about blah feet away. IE people who are the boots on the ground have a general idea of how far things are. But they are going to be about as good at judging distance as we are going to be judging on a table. And you will get better at it if you practice. Just like your character will. But your character will still be guessing and will not have an exact measurement so why should you get an exact measurement?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

Personally' date=' I think my combat trained super has a much better judge of range than my eyes would have.[/quote']

 

Why should that not mean that your combat trained Super buys Absolute Range Sense?

 

I think my combat-trained Super will be more agile, faster reacting and more skilled in combat than I am. He pays for higher DEX, higher SPD and OCV, DCV and/or combat skill levels to reflect that.

 

There's a big difference, in my opinion, between "having a pretty good idea how far away someone is" and being able to assess whether he is exactly 16 meters away, or 16.5 meters away (adding 2 to the range penalty). Evaluate that for 5 possible targets in 1 second (a half phase for a 6 SPD character) and I don't think that level of precision is likely.

 

That doesn't mean it's wrong to allow players the wargamer option of precise targeting, but it also doesn't mean it's wrong to prohibit such exact measurement (at least without shelling out the points to have this amazing ability). Rather than "Hmmm, I'd like to attack him[count count count], oh, he's 16 meters away and my half move is only 15 meters. Take that back. I'll...ummm...[count count count count count] go after that other guy who's 10 meters away so I can get there in a half move, and so I'm within 15 meters of the first guy for next time if he doesn't move away", the result becomes "I'll target that guy - if I get there in a half move, I'll Punch him and, if not, I'll Move Through." [or Move By, or just close and wait for next phase - whatever tactic you feel best].

 

The first approach can be anoying because of the delays and counting. The second can be annoying because my Hero doesn't properly estimate distances, so he doesn't accomplish what he sets out to do. I suspect the second game would see higher movement rates, and more use of Range PSL's and/or modifiers that remove range penalties - removal of a metagame element isn't really possible.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

Move' date=' say you are going to make a shot, Measure, apply modifier and roll. We can't measure distances in real life why should we be able to in the game?[/quote']

 

Because games should be better than real life.

[Daeglan]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

And how does this make it better? Have you tried it or are you just basing your objection how you think it will be?

[Mister E]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

... - removal of a metagame element isn't really possible.

 

Well... yeah.

 

I suppose it is a matter of awareness of the meta-game element that counts to me.

 

If it is acknowledged & represented in-game with HERO-System rules, then a distinct game element is made of it.

 

If the burden of making the distinction (between in-game & out-of-game knowledge) is left to the players to do at the table, then it is merely a more meta-game-ish game element than otherwise.

 

HAHA!

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

And how does this make it better? Have you tried it or are you just basing your objection how you think it will be?

 

I like having some idea, before I attempt an action (be it combat or otherwise) what my probability of success is. I would not enjoy having the value of a critical combat modifier denied to me. That's just how I am; if your way works for you, knock yourself out.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

I like having some idea' date=' before I attempt an action (be it combat or otherwise) what my probability of success is. I would not enjoy having the value of a critical combat modifier denied to me. That's just how I am; if your way works for you, knock yourself out.[/quote']

 

Do the opponents also need to come neatly labelled by DCV? I can't imagine that, when you estimate distances, you are likely to be off by more than one range increment, for a 2 point penalty, and (at least in my games) the mix of DCV's spreads out by more than 2.

 

Different play styles, of course - I do know some gamers who will insist the necessary roll be disclosed before the dice are rolled, and some games where that is the standard.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

Do the opponents also need to come neatly labelled by DCV?

 

I'm usually pretty forthcoming with the information, just because it's usually not too hard to figure out. They go on, say, DEX 23, so their base DCV is 8. Figure plus or minus 2 for levels in most cases, and you can eyeball it pretty well.

[Daeglan]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

Ahhh so all the bad guys have neon signs above their heads stating their dex and OCV and DCV... good to know.

[Mister E]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

Ahhh so all the bad guys have neon signs above their heads stating their dex and OCV and DCV... good to know.

 

Analyze is in the tool-kit. The game is what you make of it.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

Ahhh so all the bad guys have neon signs above their heads stating their dex and OCV and DCV... good to know.

 

Me: "Okay, Dex 26 ... 25 ... 24 ... 23. Thunderbolt and Arsenal go."

 

Yes, the players then know the bad guy's DEX and likely OCV and DCV. So what?

[Daeglan]

Re: to hex or not to hex

 

Or the GM could keep track of everyone's turn and say Fred its your turn George you next. Poof suddenly the players no longer know the Enemies Dexs other than they go before or after Fred. Thus eliminating some meta gaming.