What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

[Rene]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

I don't let my players off the hook easily. Being a "mutant" is no excuse for poorly thought-out backgrounds and a collection of disconnected powers. Most X-Men actually have powers that make symbolical sense.

 

Remember me of a player I had once who wanted to play a character with three powers: plant control, anti-gravity generation, and invisibility to machines. I kid you not. And he wasn't a mutant, he was something infinitely worse than that: the time traveler from the future suffering from amnesia.

[rayoman]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

I am not saying that being a "mutant" should be an excuse for poorly thought-out backgrounds and a collection of disconnected powers. I am saying that NOT every player is using being a "mutant" as a cop out. That is all. Just because you have come across players that have tried this doesn't make it true for all players.

 

I don't let my players off the hook easily. Being a "mutant" is no excuse for poorly thought-out backgrounds and a collection of disconnected powers. Most X-Men actually have powers that make symbolical sense.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

OK. I don't see anything wrong with being a mutant as a character conception. Hell, Marvel has practicaly turned mutant characters into a sub-genre (a very successful one at that). I agree that there should be a little thought put into how that puts the character at risk, or effects his interaction with the rest of the world, especially if the GM is palying that kind of world. Mind you, I think Marvel has milked that cow dry, but it is a classic trope now, and you can't ignore it in generic Silver Age or beyond game.

 

There is really no real explanation for a human-shaped creature to fly under its own power. It's comic book logic and psuedo-physics at their finest. I say, just go with it, as long as it does not offend the group's sensibilities, or the established tone of the campaign. There was a passage in the old Champions book (4th ed?) that suggested that a character had to have some type of movement power to be well rounded.

 

I was reading a screenwriting book the other day, and the author made a point I liked. He said that characters are not human beings. He made the argument that a character is sort of short hand for a person. In popular entertainment, the audience expects characters to behave in certain ways to propel the story. We want to see an interesting character, we want that character to have motivations that we can understand. We don't really want to see them behaving like you and I do every day. We want the most interesting parts of their lives distilled down to the essential, entertaining nuggets.

 

Superheroes come in certain flavors. We know what to expect, and what we demand. I agree that there should be some thought to the psychology of the character, and some thought about having a cohesive explanation for why they do what they do. I don't think you can get away from certain conceptions. They come with the territory. I do think you can have some fun twisting them and making them your own. The current Ultimates line from Marvel comes to mind.

[Rene]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

I am not saying that being a "mutant" should be an excuse for poorly thought-out backgrounds and a collection of disconnected powers. I am saying that NOT every player is using being a "mutant" as a cop out. That is all. Just because you have come across players that have tried this doesn't make it true for all players.

 

Never meant to imply that. I was only commenting on what Von D-Man said. Actually I think we agree on the mutant background issue. I was actually saying being a mutant is NOT a excuse for these kinds of behaviours, not that players who propose mutant characters do this more often than players who like, say, altered humans or aliens. The player I mentioned was an altered human. I was really kinda defending the mutant origin, by saying I don't see it is intrinsically worse than any other origin.

[Vondy]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

OK. I don't see anything wrong with being a mutant as a character conception. Hell' date=' Marvel has practicaly turned mutant characters into a sub-genre (a very successful one at [/quote']

I think the sub-genre issue is also something that needs to be considered in terms of mutant characters. Mutants aren't appropriate to every super-hero character, and not every sub-genre is open to the sudden appearance of a mutant. People understand when the GM says aliens are not within scope, why not mutants?

 

This is not to say all of my games exclude mutants, but I get so many mutants that I often wonder if I'm ever going to see anything else - and I've started to scrutinize such characters very carefully as a result.

 

Oh - and I'll respond to your mail this weekend - I've had a pretty busy week at home.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

Remember me of a player I had once who wanted to play a character with three powers: plant control' date=' anti-gravity generation, and invisibility to machines. I kid you not. And he wasn't a mutant, he was something infinitely worse than that: the time traveler from the future suffering from amnesia.[/quote']

 

OK, had he learned gaming through Marvel Supers or Villains & Vigilantes? I suspect the latter given the power choices.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

I think the sub-genre issue is also something that needs to be considered in terms of mutant characters. Mutants aren't appropriate to every super-hero character, and not every sub-genre is open to the sudden appearance of a mutant. People understand when the GM says aliens are not within scope, why not mutants?

 

This is not to say all of my games exclude mutants, but I get so many mutants that I often wonder if I'm ever going to see anything else - and I've started to scrutinize such characters very carefully as a result.

 

Oh - and I'll respond to your mail this weekend - I've had a pretty busy week at home.

 

Frankly, Mutants are the concept easiest to put yourself in the role of. I don't know for sure about anyone else, but I'm pretty sure I lack the dedication to be a Mystic/TPO, the ancestry to be an Alien/Robot, and the scientific association to be a Mutate (ever notice all those chaps seem to have a science tie in?).

 

ANYONE could be a Mutant.

 

So it's easy to put weird and wonderful ideas under this category.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

V&V!! I remember that game fondly. It was fun to randomly roll characters and then try to come up with an excuse for the weird power combinations you got. After a while, we just went to a Champions style system. You would say what you wanted to do and the GM would put the powers together with an eye toward balance. I had some great random villians, though. I remember a guy with robotic powers, energy powers and plant powers. I decided he was an NASA probe (a la V'ger) that had been overgrown by some intelligent alien kudzu. Just plain wacky.

 

No problem, Von D. My week has been like that too. I'm off to check out Hellboy tonight as a stress break.

[Kristopher]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

Not every character needs 18 pages of backstory just to detail how they ended up with powers.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

V&V!! I remember that game fondly. It was fun to randomly roll characters and then try to come up with an excuse for the weird power combinations you got.

 

My Manphibian (Animal Powers - Amphibian; Heightened CON at least three times,and regeneration) kind of turned me off the random roll concept. He had an outrageous CON which resulted in 5 figures of hit points, and over 100 points of regeneration. What is tis "roll damage to Power" of which you speak?

[austenandrews]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

I think the sub-genre issue is also something that needs to be considered in terms of mutant characters. Mutants aren't appropriate to every super-hero character' date=' and not every sub-genre is open to the sudden appearance of a mutant. People understand when the GM says aliens are not within scope, why not mutants?[/quote']

 

Exactly. The "mutant" origin is world-specific, along with aliens, vampires, mythological characters, etc. They're by no means a given. But Marvel's X-titles are so prolific that some people seem to think "I'm a mutant" is as simple a statement as "I'm a martial artist" or "I'm an expert marksman."

 

Also, categories like aliens, mythological characters and even vampires imply a certain amount of interest in their background. Saying "I was just born that way" with no further explanation is not interesting. Unless the milieu provides interest (like the Marvel universe does) it amounts to a non-origin.

 

-AA

[Kristopher]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

Exactly. The "mutant" origin is world-specific, along with aliens, vampires, mythological characters, etc. They're by no means a given. But Marvel's X-titles are so prolific that some people seem to think "I'm a mutant" is as simple a statement as "I'm a martial artist" or "I'm an expert marksman."

 

Also, categories like aliens, mythological characters and even vampires imply a certain amount of interest in their background. Saying "I was just born that way" with no further explanation is not interesting. Unless the milieu provides interest (like the Marvel universe does) it amounts to a non-origin.

 

-AA

 

Why does the source of a character's powers have to be complex? Why does it have to be the interesting thing about his background? Do characters in other genres lack interesting backstories because they don't have 18 pages of "how I got my powers"?

[Hermit]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

Why does the source of a character's powers have to be complex? Why does it have to be the interesting thing about his background? Do characters in other genres lack interesting backstories because they don't have 18 pages of "how I got my powers"?

 

I must have missed the part where someone said it had to be 18 pages long?

[Lezentauw]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

I started out playing the Super-hero genre with V&V. As the GM for our group, I got real tired of all of the random un-related powers. So I came up with a house rule for rolling up the characters. I had them make all of their roles, and then they could look at every category and choose what powers they wanted. But, when finished the character needed to follow a concept of some form.

 

What always struck me as odd, at the time, was that the later V&V modules gave conversions to other game systems. Most notably Champions...

[megaplayboy]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

Why does the source of a character's powers have to be complex? Why does it have to be the interesting thing about his background? Do characters in other genres lack interesting backstories because they don't have 18 pages of "how I got my powers"?

 

No, they don't, but those characters usually have backstories about what made them heroic. Part of it may have involved their training, and part of it was some formative experience(s) which shaped their perspective on things.

 

I think the complaint about "I'm a mutant, mmkay"-type origins is that sometimes, a) the player doesn't bother much with describing those formative experiences, and b)the player is trying to make a do-everything PC without any real effort to justify it conceptually.

 

Whether the genre is 'realistic' or not, it should have some conceptual continuity,IMO.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

Think about it. Did millions of Americans put thier lives at risk in WWII becuase Nazis had killed their parents? Yet many players seem to think they need to give their character some over the top motivation in order for their actions to be 'realistic.'

 

I don't know... sometimes its just fun to have an over-the-top reason to fight crime. My own character, Lawgiver (martial artist/weapon master with some few boosted stats and some mystic-based senses) was originally a smuggler who made the stupid mistake of trying on this gaudy piece of Egyptian jewelry one day... and now can't get it off.

 

The Spirit of Justice inhabiting the arm band compels him to fight crime... and if he ignores the compulsion for too long it takes over and uses him like a vehicle. Of course, pure justice is never merciful... nor does it care if the vehicle gets the occasional ding in the paint-job.

[Mentor]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

Why does the source of a character's powers have to be complex? Why does it have to be the interesting thing about his background? Do characters in other genres lack interesting backstories because they don't have 18 pages of "how I got my powers"?

In our campaign, the more origin detail, the more adventure hooks starring "Your Superhero".

 

Kryptonite became the second most common element on Earth after the writers found that Superman's origin could be used for story hooks as easily as his powers could.

[Kristopher]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

In our campaign, the more origin detail, the more adventure hooks starring "Your Superhero".

 

Kryptonite became the second most common element on Earth after the writers found that Superman's origin could be used for story hooks as easily as his powers could.

 

And that created such wonderful stories, too.

[Kristopher]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

No, they don't, but those characters usually have backstories about what made them heroic. Part of it may have involved their training, and part of it was some formative experience(s) which shaped their perspective on things.

 

I think the complaint about "I'm a mutant, mmkay"-type origins is that sometimes, a) the player doesn't bother much with describing those formative experiences, and b)the player is trying to make a do-everything PC without any real effort to justify it conceptually.

 

Whether the genre is 'realistic' or not, it should have some conceptual continuity,IMO.

 

I wouldn't think that problem B would be more common with mutant characters. Most mutants in commic books actually have fairly coherent power sets. And problem A could be just as much of an issue with other types..."I got splashed with some rays, and decided to wear tights in public and beat up mean people."

[Kristopher]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

I must have missed the part where someone said it had to be 18 pages long?

 

Hyperboly.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

I wouldn't think that problem B would be more common with mutant characters. Most mutants in commic books actually have fairly coherent power sets. And problem A could be just as much of an issue with other types..."I got splashed with some rays' date=' and decided to wear tights in public and beat up mean people."[/quote']

 

I've never seen the Mutant origin abused near as much as "He's an Alien". That's all the explanation we need - al Kryptonians have these powers under a yellow sun. All Saturnians are telepaths. All Braalians habve magnetic powers. All Skrull can shapeshift. My character belongs to a CU race you've never heard of. They all have those powers.

 

There's an easy cure...as you scan the sheet, mutter under your breath "I wonder what their supers would look like".

[rayoman]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

I agree with you on this point, Rene.

 

I was really kinda defending the mutant origin' date=' by saying I don't see it is intrinsically worse than any other origin.[/quote']

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

In our campaign, the more origin detail, the more adventure hooks starring "Your Superhero".

 

Kryptonite became the second most common element on Earth after the writers found that Superman's origin could be used for story hooks as easily as his powers could.

 

Second only to stupidity, of course.

[Hermit]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

Hyperboly.

 

Yeah, I figured, but it boggled my mind you'd take it to that level and expect it to help your arguement. To my knowledge , folks aren't asking for any unreasonable amount of background material like that. They're just tired of one sentence origins (admitedly, that might be exageration on their part, but I don't think so).

[Kristopher]

Re: What superhero character concepts are you tired of seeing?

 

Yeah' date=' I figured, but it boggled my mind you'd take it to that level and expect it to help your arguement. To my knowledge , folks aren't asking for any unreasonable amount of background material like that. They're just tired of one sentence origins (admitedly, that might be exageration on their part, but I don't think so).[/quote']

 

I was trying to exagerate enough that it would be clear that I was exagerating.

 

Anyway, I don't think that having a one-line explanation for how a character ended up with powers -- "I was born this way." -- necessarily makes a difference in whether the character has a good origin/background.