Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

[Twilight]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

Obi-Wan blamed himself, which isn't neccessarily the same as being the one at fault.

 

There were several points at which Anakin's fall could have been prevented. And the Jedi council (or individual masters) universally did the worst possible thing every time. Which makes me think Darth Siddeous had his mental hooks into everyone on the Jedi council as well.

 

This, of course, means that the fledgling Emperor was even more powerful than we all thought just from watching the movies. And the defeat of the Jedi was like the last move in a chess game. They'd already lost before the Emperor even let them know they were even in danger.

 

Fair enough. I still think clueless and out of touch is a bit harsh however, I mean the council was running an orginization that spanned a galaxy and were heavily involved in a violent war the second and third movies as well. From thier point of view they had more important things to worry about then Anakin. Remember, Palpatine was the one with clairvoyance there's no evidence that the Jedi Council had it as well.

 

Besides, shouldn't it have been Obi Wan's job to properly deal with Anakin's whiny emo behavior?

[Vulcan]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

Maybe. Quite likely, in fact. But I still think Palpatine was messing with everyone's minds. It's possible that Obi-Wan was kept from realizing how close Anakin was getting to the edge.

[The Weapon]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

But he never would've become trained enough to be dangerous if Qui Gon and Obi Wan hadn't disobeyed the council in the first place. The Council flat out told them that it would be a bad idea to train Anakin which is borne out when Anakin actually, y'know helping to wipe out the Republic and all.

 

Plus, the fact that Obi Wan pretty much admits it's his own fault in the original movies leads me to belive that that is the case.

 

But Anakin wasn't dangerous because he was trained, he was dangerous because he was the most powerful natural force user in the galaxy at the time (possibly surpassed by his son later on). If the Sith get a hold of him they've got the most powerful apprentice they could possibly have. Given that the Sith had a powerful intelligence network and knew where Anakin came from what's to stop them picking him off the street when he goes back to Tattonie? Not training Anakin is the coward's way out and the Council weren't even able to stick to that. They don't say what there plan is for Anakin absent training and so they have no better alternative to present to Qui Gon.

 

Nothing the Council did in the prequels seemed to work. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan took action that was effective mainly because they didn't check in with the council before doing it. When Obi-Wan did check in the Council sent much of the Jedi order to get slaughtered saving two Jedis and an important senator. The senator was important because she was stopping the civil war. So what happens? The Council activates the army the Senator said (correctly) would start one.

 

No doubt about it, they're clueless. Admittedly that's probably because Darth Sidious is messing with their heads. Still they were watching when Queen Amidala said "The Republic no longer functions.". She was clearly right, yet years later (after 4 attempts to achieve minimal justice over the invasion of Naboo) they still back the Republic unquestionably. Not even Obi-Wan said "Hey wait a minute, why are we being loyal to something that no longer stands for what we believe in.".

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

Bah. 50 CP and a 'radiation accident'. And if the GM is feeling generous, not even 50 CP.

[The Weapon]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

Fair enough. I still think clueless and out of touch is a bit harsh however, I mean the council was running an orginization that spanned a galaxy and were heavily involved in a violent war the second and third movies as well. From thier point of view they had more important things to worry about then Anakin. Remember, Palpatine was the one with clairvoyance there's no evidence that the Jedi Council had it as well.

 

Besides, shouldn't it have been Obi Wan's job to properly deal with Anakin's whiny emo behavior?

 

Sure they were running an organization, but it was one where agents pretty much acted on their own initiative for months on end. They knew that Anakin was something vital to their whole religion and philosophy, but there's no evidence that they considered what he meant for more than a day. They had years between the events of I and the outbreak of war, an outbreak their actions caused. Sure it was Obi-Wan's job to deal with his immature behavior, but he was showing signs of bad judgement that should have been noticed by anyone paying attention. Is it too much to ask that the Chosen One actually be observed by those he was chosen for?

[Twilight]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

Sure they were running an organization' date=' but it was one where agents pretty much acted on their own initiative for months on end. They knew that Anakin was something vital to their whole religion and philosophy, but there's no evidence that they considered what he meant for more than a day. They had years between the events of I and the outbreak of war, an outbreak their actions caused. Sure it was Obi-Wan's job to deal with his immature behavior, but he was showing signs of bad judgement that should have been noticed by anyone paying attention. Is it too much to ask that the Chosen One actually be observed by those he was chosen for?[/quote']

 

They're trying to maintain peace throughout an entire galaxy and assisting in a violent civil war, it's not unreasonable for them to consider that more important then babysitting one Jedi. Besides, for most of the prequels they belived that Count Dooku was the Sith that trained Darth Maul and clearly he had no access to Anakin.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

anyone done a "post-pyre faded jedi ghost" character sheet ?

[The Weapon]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

They're trying to maintain peace throughout an entire galaxy and assisting in a violent civil war' date=' it's not unreasonable for them to consider that more important then babysitting one Jedi. Besides, for most of the prequels they belived that Count Dooku was the Sith that trained Darth Maul and clearly he had no access to Anakin.[/quote']

 

Again, at the time they considered Anakin's fate they had no idea that they would be in a civil war. They know that Anakin is something special and it's entirely possible that he is the one who is to bring balance to the force. That's more important than anything else they're likely to do. Jedi agents are pretty much autonomous from what I've seen and so what does that council do that is more important than that.

 

They know that the Sith have a connection to the Trade Federation, and thus have connections to many senators and enough resources to search Tattoine if they leave him there. If they send him somewhere else again the Trade Federation have the resources to find him. Only Qui Gon's decision to train Anakin kept him out of the Sith's hands for as long as he was.

 

Perhaps I'm being unfair to the council. Maybe they had a plan and just didn't get to explain it before Qui Gon announced his intentions making it moot. But judging by the fact that they didn't make a single good decision that I can think of I don't think so. For instance in TPM the Senate announces that they're going to send a mission to find out what's happening (even though the Jedi have already told them). The simplest thing to do then is to say that a) Queen Amidala needs to be in that mission and that Qui Gon should be allowed to handle her security and that c) she needs a lot of it so can she borrow some security troops from other Senators? Then the fact finding mission turns up with the guards from 30+ senators hostile to the TF totalling over 100 troops backed by 30 Jedi. Invasion over.

[Vulcan]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

While both groups were guilty of making some terrible decisions in the prequels, the Senate and the Jedi Council were not one and the same. I don't even think there was any overlap between the two.

 

Balance to the Force? Why the heck would any of the Jedi Council want to balance the Force? The Sith were limited to two for thousands of years (ever since the time of Darth Bane). To balance the Force, the Jedi would also have to be reduced to two. Why the heck would any Jedi want that?

 

Makes me wonder if Count Dooku had been under Darth Siddeous' influence even back when he was training Qui-Gon, and therefore influenced Qui-Gon into seeking out the chosen one for Darth Siddeous to use against the Jedi...

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

Balance to the Force? Why the heck would any of the Jedi Council want to balance the Force? The Sith were limited to two for thousands of years (ever since the time of Darth Bane). To balance the Force' date=' the Jedi would also have to be reduced to two. Why the heck would [i']any[/i] Jedi want that?

"Balance" is the destruction of the Sith, which Anakin did when he killed the Emperor in RotJ.

 

Lucas defined the "Imbalance" to be the Dark Side.

 

There was no requirement that the Prophecy be fulfilled by the destruction of the Jedi of the OR. That in the end there would be no more Sith.

 

It is just a shame that Anakin had to choose the most destructive path to get there.

 

Which is why I believe had it been Qui-Gon who trained him, the Galaxy would not have ended up in the manner that it did.

 

TB

[Vulcan]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

No Sith/Dark Side with a strong Jedi/light side is actually an imbalance.

 

And given some of the trash Lucas has put out and called Star Wars recently, his opinion of the matter means little to me.

[The Weapon]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

While both groups were guilty of making some terrible decisions in the prequels' date=' the Senate and the Jedi Council were [i']not[/i] one and the same. I don't even think there was any overlap between the two.

 

I never said there was. However many Senators opposed what was happening on Naboo, and they all had some capacity to send security forces. None of them could send anything like an army, but get 30 or 40 Senators to send some token force and you've got something that can put up resistence. The Jedi Council have been told that an actual invasion is happening by one of their most trusted subordinates, surely they can pull 30 Jedi (out of 2-3 thousand IIRC) off duties for a while. Viola, force that can take on, heck take out, the droid army. Problem solved.

 

Balance to the Force? Why the heck would any of the Jedi Council want to balance the Force? The Sith were limited to two for thousands of years (ever since the time of Darth Bane). To balance the Force, the Jedi would also have to be reduced to two. Why the heck would any Jedi want that?

 

Makes me wonder if Count Dooku had been under Darth Siddeous' influence even back when he was training Qui-Gon, and therefore influenced Qui-Gon into seeking out the chosen one for Darth Siddeous to use against the Jedi...

 

The Jedi had littel idea what "bringing balance to the force meant". We do because Luke did it by going psycho under the influence of Darth Sideous and then coming back. He dealt with his anger rather than simply suppressing it. That didn't restrict the number of Jedi, it just made them more capable of handling stress without going darkside.

I doubt that Dooku had any idea that the Anakin or anything like he was coming. Nor do I see what he could have done to make such a complex choice more likely decades later.

[Vulcan]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

Dooku and Qui-Gon, probably not.

 

Darth Siddeous, on the other hand...

[Southern Cross]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

This is true.I can't help wondering if Darth Siddeous was actually Anakin's biological father..

[Egyptoid]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

wondering if Darth Siddeous was actually Anakin's biological father..

 

dude.

[Badger]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

No Sith/Dark Side with a strong Jedi/light side is actually an imbalance.

 

And given some of the trash Lucas has put out and called Star Wars recently, his opinion of the matter means little to me.

 

 

On all points.

[mirage]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

And given some of the trash Lucas has put out and called Star Wars recently, his opinion of the matter means little to me.

 

You mean everything since 1983?

[Vulcan]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

Pretty much.

 

Some (not all, by any means) of the authors writing Star Wars novels came up with much better stuff than the BS Lucas has done.

 

Especially Michael Stackpole and Timothy Zahn!

[The Weapon]

Re: Jedi Ghosts and fade-to-deaths?

 

This is true.I can't help wondering if Darth Siddeous was actually Anakin's biological father..

 

Then that scene in RotJ is just a really bad family reunion?